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RING Ratings Update: Errol Spence enters the P4P Top 10

12
Sep

The RING Editorial Board had a tough decision to make this week.

Wisaksil Wangek’s spectacular knockout of Roman Gonzalez on Saturday knocked the Nicaraguan out of the RING’s pound-for-pound Top 10, which created an opening. The process of filling it took a great deal of thought and discussion.

First, it’s important to note that we try to balance resume with the eye test when making such a selection.

With that in mind, the Ratings Panel suggested a number of candidates. Wangek (Srisaket Sor Rungvisai), of course. Errol Spence Jr. Keith Thurman. Juan Francisco Estrada. Donnie Nietes. Oleksandr Usyk. Jorge Linares. Leo Santa Cruz. Anthony Joshua. Jermall Charlo. The list went on.

And the Editorial Board thought that most of the fighters listed above were worthy of consideration.

The easiest choice would’ve been Wangek after what he did to the former No. 1 fighter. That was a very big victory. A conservative choice would’ve been Keith Thurman, who arguably has as strong a resume as anyone not in the Top 10. Estrada is on a particular strong run, as is Linares. And Nietes, Usyk, Santa Cruz, Joshua and Charlo have their strengths.

It came down to Wangek, Thurman and Spence.

Wangek deserves credit for beating Gonzalez in consecutive fights but most observers agree that Gonzalez had moved up one division too many and has shown signs of wear and tear. Still, Wangek came close to getting the nod.

Thurman has victories over Shawn Porter and Danny Garcia. The problem is that he barely beat both of them and didn’t look remotely dynamic in the process.

Spence doesn’t have a resume comparable to either Wangek or Thurman, although he dominated a good fighter in Kell Brook in his most recent fight. The Dallas fighter excels in the eye test, as many have pegged him as a potential superstar.

In the end, we decided to lean more on the eye test than resume. Thus, Spence replaces Gonzalez, entering at No. 10.

We know that will spark some conversation, which is par for the course. Spence will determine whether we made a wise decision.

In the weight divisions:

CRUISERWEIGHT

Oleksandr Usyk (No. 1) stopped Marco Huck (No. 7 last week) on Saturday in Berlin, Huck’s second consecutive loss. That pushes him out of the Top 10. Also, time has run out on Firat Arslan (No. 8 last week), who hasn’t had a meaningful fight in three years.

Huck and Arslan are replaced by Dmitry Kudryashov and Yunier Dorticos, who enter at Nos. 9 and 10 respectively. Kudyashov and Dorticso fight one another on September 23.

SUPER MIDDLEWEIGHT

Twenty-year-old David Benavidez (No. 9 last week) moves up one notch after outpointing Ronald Gavril (unrated last week) to win the vacant WBC title Friday in Las Vegas.

JUNIOR BANTAMWEIGHT

Another tough decision with which we wrestled was what to do about the top of the 115-pound decision.

Naoya Inoue entered the week at No. 1 and stopped overmatched Antonio Nieves (unrated last week) on the Wangek-Gonzalez card. Wangek was No. 2. Some members of the panel thought his performance should catapult him above Inoue.

However, the Editorial Board decided to leave things alone. Inoue, a strong No. 1, did nothing to lose his position. And, again, while Wangek’s KO was spectacular, we feel it came against a fighter who was at least somewhat damaged.

Gonzalez (No. 3 last week) drops to No. 8.

Also, Juan Francisco Estrada (No. 5 last week) narrowly outpointed Carlos Cuadras (No. 4 last week) in a compelling fight on the Wangek-Gonzalez card. As a result, Estrada rises to No. 3 while Cuadras stays put.

JUNIOR FLYWEIGHT

Randy Petalcorin (No. 8 last week) held his position after stopping Jetly Purisima (unrated last week) on Saturday in the Philippines.

THE RING Magazine Editor Michael Rosenthal and U.K. Correspondent/Editor Tom Gray discuss Wisaksil Wangek’s knockout win, others on the the “Superfly” card and preview the upcoming Canelo-Golovkin superfight:

 

  • Joey Junger

    This is a good decision. I always think the balanced fighter eventually carries the day against the flashy one (even if it takes a decade or so for time to prove it). The guy who keeps his hands low and uses his chin and his reflexes to bait an opponent in can fall to pieces once his reflexes are a tad slower. An old-school, well-rounded fighter can fight forever (or much longer). I think Spence beats Thurman, both in the P4P discussion, and in a fight.

    • Nana Adjei

      Well Spence has a chance but I see Thurman a little above him. Spence is a solid fighter but Thurman is creative and can dig deep when the going gets tough. #OneTime carries the day.

      • left hook

        I agree.

      • Teddy Reynoso

        I’ll take natural endowment over creativity most of the time.

  • Col Carter

    The last time a fighter had back to back victories over a highly ranked P4P fighter you elevated him to #1 on the list even though he had not beaten another fighter of note in well over 5 years. In addition, for a great proportion of that 60+ months he was inactive. You are very inconsistent and biased in your rankings.

    • G.Fring

      Considering that person was #2 P4P before that inactivity makes no difference?? Also, said inactivty being out of his own control for the most part does not have any weight?

      • Keano

        Yep and should have been completely removed from the rankings due to inactivity

        • G.Fring

          I agree. Its a similar situation to when Floyd was incarcerated. Was at spot in P4P rankings then removed because of the inactivity (jail time) and rightfully reinstated as a top 10 once he got out and had a couple fights.

          • ozzy

            LOL oh yeah he’s got the skills alright , shame they’re wrestling, or whatever shit he’s doing, rather than boxing.
            IMHO this “eye test” is a ridiculous method to use in ranking fighters because it’s far too subjective, for example Spence is said to have dominated Brook in their fight, however that wasn’t the case in my view, it was only as Brook tired after 6 rounds that Spence came to the fore – Brook had only fought twice in 2 years & had to lose almost 3 stone to make 147, shouldn’t Spence have done better if he “dominated” Brook? IMO the subjective nature of the “eye test” gives the ratings panel an excuse to rate highly just about anyone they feel like. IMHO the Ring’s ratings are a joke compared to its ratings back when it was the most relevant and best boxing magazine.

      • Col Carter

        If you use where a person “used” to be ranked as a barometer to where they are now ranked then Mayweather would have to go to the top of the list now since he won his last fight. Ward has not fought an elite fighter since he fought Froch in 2011. Dawson doesn’t count because Dawson has never beaten anyone at 168. Rodriquez is an OK opponent but not elite. I’m not sure what one would call Paul Smith…B or C level? Brand was a 40 year old never was. Sullivan Barrera was a good win for Ward. Both Kovalev fights were highly controversial. Most, including me, thought Kovalev handily won their first fight and the second one was fraught with fouls and poor refereeing. So, in essence, Ring did not us the eye test or quality of opponents or definitive wins to put Ward on top. To add insult to the whole matter, at one point, they had Ward ranked #4 on the P4P list but #5 as a LHW. They were saying he was the 4th best fighter in the world but only the 5th best fighter at LHW. LOL And, to answer your question about inactivity it was not out of his control. He made choices. In the end it has worked out for him except for the fact that people are unwilling to pay to see him fight.

        • nikia n cole

          He fought sergy two who is an elite fighter ardre ward deserve too be number #1 in my book as far as earl spence he’s gonna beat kieth thruman for sure Terrence crawford should be number 2 on the list.

          • Col Carter

            I’m sorry I wasn’t clear. Yes, he did fight Kovalev but it was a long dry spell between Froch and Kovalev and he did nothing to deserve jumping over all those fighters who were fighting for a living.

          • Teddy Reynoso

            You mean his light heavy debut win over Sullivan Barrera does not count for anything? Sully whipped Joe Smith who retired BHop and the Cuban is now considered as a major player in the division. Don’t be so close minded please dude.

          • Col Carter

            I said in my comment that Barrera was a good win for Ward. I’m not being close minded or at least I’m not trying to be. I just think it’s ridiculous to put Ward at the top of the list of all boxers in the world based on two controversial wins over the past 5 years. Smith and Brand are journeymen.

          • left hook

            Just like how Lomachenko jumped over fighters fighting for a living to fight for the WBO belt after just 1 fight as a pro. How come you not complaining about that.

          • Col Carter

            That was around 3 years ago. What does one have to do with the other? Lomachenko ran into a no nonsense guy and got his butt kicked. There are a lot of guys who get title shots who are undeserving and it’s wrong in every instance. Again, what does Lomachenko have to do with the Ward conversation? But, I will say this Lomanchenko’s resume over the past 4 years is a lot more impressive than Ward’s. Plus he’s had twice as many fights during that period.

          • left hook

            It doesnt matter if it’s 3 or 5 yrs ago..it does change the fact lomachenko leaped over the line to challenge for the belt and u didnt say nothing.
            “I will say this Lomanchenko’s resume over the past 4 years is a lot more impressive than Ward’s”….loll..i don’t wanna believe u meant that.

          • ozzy

            Why? It’s totally true. The only p4p list Ward should be on is fouling & he’s top of the tree on that fucker – the tougher the opponent the more he fouls!

          • left hook

            Which fouls are u talking about? I didn’t see any fouls but I saw Kovalev fouling Ward.

          • Col Carter

            You have no idea if I “didn’t say nothing” or not 3 -5 years ago. Here is Lomachenko’s resume in the past 4 years: Ramirez, Salido, Russell Jr., Tatakhun, Rodriquez, Koasicho, Martinez, Walters, Sosa, Marriaga…10 fights against six world title holders. Here’s Ward’s resume in the past 4 years: Rodriquez, Smith, Brand, Barrera, Kovalev. Kovalev being the only elite boxer or title holder. Trust me, I meant it. Have I missed anyone?

          • left hook

            The only stand out names Lomachenko’s resume are Russel(Who u guys claim his a bum) and Walters. The only champions he faced was Martinez and solido (which he lost that fight). Smith and Brand was warm up fight after a long lay off.

          • Col Carter

            First, please tell me who “u guys” are? Second, I highly recommend you take a look at who Lomachenko has fought and compare them to Smith, Brand, and Barrera. Then answer this question: Who were Lomachenko’s warm ups?

          • left hook

            Apart from Russell walters and solido, others were warm ups. U keep mentioning Smith and Brand as if those are the names that makes up ward’s resume. If u check without a biased eye, u will see other strong names there. Even Froch in an interview said Ward is an excellent boxer and believes he is unbeatable but yet u (who has never box before) are hating. Lomachenko is a good fighter but his not the second coming of christ. Give him time to beat top names then u can start to worship him.

          • Col Carter

            You are very emotional and irrational with a very short memory about posts. I never said Smith and Brand were the only names on Ward’s resume. I simply said that he has done very little in the past 5 years and is certainly not the best fighter in the world. Lomachenko is a good fighter but he hasn’t done enough to make him the best either. However, he has beat more top names in the past four years than Ward has. If you take the time to look at the credentials of Lomachenko’s opponents you will find six world champs out of 10 opponents. Ward hasn’t beaten that many world champs in his entire career. You also haven’t told me who “u guys” are when referring to me. I’m waiting.

          • left hook

            I don’t get emotional over boxing or football or any sport I follow.
            I think to you brand and Smith are the guys that makes up his resume cuz those are the only guys you keep mentioning. Lomachenko has only fought one world champion which is Martinez (not a skilled fighter), except u are counting former champs, which means anybody can beat any old past prime champ and u will view it as a victory as legit. Ward has beaten and stopped P4P guys not just champions.
            When i say u guys, I meant people that are haters of Ward/Floyd/Rigo/Wilder etc.

          • Col Carter

            There you go being emotional again. Hate and worship are very emotional words. I don’t hate or worship any boxers. Wilder is one of my very favorite boxers. I sincerely hope he beats Ruiz if they fight. However, Ward, Rigo, and Mayweather put me to sleep. I mentioned Brand and Smith several times because they make up 50% of Ward’s resume in the past four years. Barrera and Kovalev are the other 50%. Salido was the reigning WBO FW champ when he fought Lomachenko. Martinez was the reigning WBO SFW champ. Walters was the WBA SFW champ. Sosa was the WBA SFW champ.

          • Col Carter

            In order to justify Ward’s position at the top of the P4P list it is absolutely necessary to go back to 2009-2011 when he won a tournament. Since then, outside the Kovalev controversies, he’s done very, very little.

          • left hook

            He was out due injury and legal issue..if u did your home work u would know this. He beat Barrera. You just upset he beat kovalev. The fight is over, move on.

          • Col Carter

            It makes no difference why he was out…he was out. Out is out. He had one fight in 2012 and wasn’t injured. He had one fight in 2013 and wasn’t injured. He fought no one in 2014 and wasn’t injured. He had one fight in 2015 and got an inflamed knee. His legal issue was that he wanted out of his contract with Goosen. Now he wants out of his contract with RocNation. The only thing I’m upset with is the poor judging and officiating that I see way too often. Not just in Ward’s fights but in others too. Ward just happens to be the topic of this discussion.

          • left hook

            I didn’t see any poor judging forwards ward. And he was injured and and had legal battles during those years u mentioned. He came back from a long lay off and beat a top ten rated guy in Bererra and KOed a P4P guy. U only upset cuz he beat Kovalev.

          • Col Carter

            You are hopeless on the subject of Ward. Facts don’t phase you. Public opinion rolls off your back. Biased judging goes over your head. Have a great day.

          • left hook

            Facts?? I think u are talking about yourself buddy..lol. u are only try to discredit ward.
            The fact are…Ward is a P4P king,Ward has beaten top names in a lower division and higher, ward is a unified champ, his well behaved, doesn’t trash talk, respectful and Those are the real facts.
            I will surely have a great day, I know u are not having a great day cuz Ward KOed kovalev.

          • Col Carter

            You still haven’t told me what “u guys” mean in referring to me. I agree that Ward beat some top names back in 2009-2011 but only one top name since than and that was very “iffy”. He is well behaved, well spoken, and respectful but he whines at times about not getting enough respect. I’m not discrediting Ward. I am discrediting those who have placed him at the top in boxing. Ward is what he is. Those rating him have simply rated him higher than he should be.

        • Teddy Reynoso

          As you brought up the subject of Floyd Mayweather Jr. in the discussion, yes it stands to reason he could have come back to the pound for pound rating. But he opted to re-retire once again that’s why he is not in the discussion of the Ring panel.

          • Col Carter

            He certainly did not pass the eye test in the McGregor debacle.

        • Teddy Reynoso

          Floyd returned to boxing after two years of retirement with a win over JMM who was not even a welterweight at that time but it was enough to get him back to the pound for pound rating of the Ring and other media organizations.

          • Col Carter

            I don’t recall where he was placed after beating JMM.

    • Keano

      Typical American bias towards the Son of Judges

    • SlowlybutSurely

      100% agree. How can Wangek beat (twice!) someone considered #1 P4P (if not, surely in the top 3) and not be in the top 10 P4P himself. It is insane to me how much mental gymnastics the Ring Magazine puts into discrediting fighters from other places of the world outside the United States.

    • Joshua Lilly

      I would love to have one of the members of the panel answer this post. I’m sure it’s more complex than you put it, but it sure is a powerful question put to them. At first glance, it certainly does seem to point out a glaring (a) accidental inconsistency, or (b) deliberate bias.

    • Stephen M

      Noot that I am thrilled with the choice of Ward as P4P, I think it might have a lot to do with the fact that Wangek was probably mostly an unknown fighter before he fought Gonzales, apart from his loss to Cuadras. Promoting him to #1 P4P on the basis of having beaten a possibly over the hill Gonzales twice, might quite probably turn out to be premature.

      • Col Carter

        I’m not advocating he be put at #1 or even in the top 10. I’m just saying that the last time what he did happened they put the victor at #1. In my opinion, that was wrong.

        • Teddy Reynoso

          Simply coz the victor was rated at number two, what was wrong with him replacing number one?

          • Col Carter

            To begin with Ward should have never been rated that high, #4 I believe, due to not having fought anyone in years. He was rated #4 after having
            five fights in five years against 2nd tier opponents. Secondly, he “won” under circumstances that were very controversial while Gonzalez “lost” under circumstances that were controversial. Ward has gotten preferential treatment from refs, judges, ranking organizations, and Ring. He’s a good fighter who uses questionable tactics but…best in the world? No way.

          • Teddy Reynoso

            Again Sullivan Barrera.

          • ozzy

            If Ward tried any of his shit in any other country other than the US he’d at least lose points and possibly be DQd. It’s another example of US boxing authorities being biased towards a US fighter no matter what. That so many so-called “boxing fans” do not know that Ward is fouling is really worrying, even if a boxing fan hasn’t boxed themselves they should know what the rules of boxing are and recognise when they’re being broken. Others who make excuses for Ward should take themselves and Ward off to the UFC.

          • Col Carter

            Around 75% of Ward’s 32 fights have been in California, most in the Oakland area which is his hometown. I believe he’s only fought outside the continental U.S. twice. Even the fights in the almighty tournament he won were primarily fought in his hometown. I agree that he bends the rules more than most and gets by with it more than most. He’s really a talented fighter but chooses to take the low road.

        • Stephen M

          I can understand that. I don’t particularly like Ward. His activity level certainly leaves a lot to be desired. But it is still hard for me to say that he isn’t the best fighter P4P. Transnational and Espn also have him at the top… It is what it is…

          • Col Carter

            Liking or not liking Ward is immaterial. I like Ward as a commentator and he seems like a nice guy. However, I don’t like his style of boxing and I surely don’t believe he’s the best at his trade.

  • left hook

    I dont agree with Spence been on the P4P list yet. The guy has only one good fighter on his resume. Being a potential superstar is not enough to be ranked. Mike Jones and Victor postol had potential superstars written all over them but where are they today? Spence, Loma and Rigo should be dropped. Thurman defiantly should be on there. Danny Garcia can be considered, as he has a strong resume.

    • Keano

      Can’t believe that they have Rigo at 5. I forget he exists on a weekly basis

    • Leonard Edwards

      In that case ggg shouldnt be in it he only have one Good fighter he has fought

      • stetee83

        Yeah but GGG has had 30 odd fights and has been a world champ for several years, Errol Spence only a few months

        • World champ means what when all the opponents are B and C?

          Deontay Wilder is a world champ as well. AJ is as well. Both of them have one real fight each on their resume. I almost threw up in my mouth to see AJ even momentarily considered for the list. The guy is nowhere close to deserving. Golovkin should be somewhere around 10. His competition has been too weak. And when he’s faced Jacobs it was close.

          • Col Carter

            If B&C level are the only opponents available what’s a man to do? Take a look at Ali’s opponents during his heyday of 65-67. Look at Joe Louis’ and Mike Tyson’s opponents. Look at Joe Calzaghe’s. Canelo’s best wins are Lara and Trout and they are not elite. Cotto is a 140 to 147 lb fighter. There is plenty of room for finger pointing.

      • left hook

        GGG should be but maybe at number 10.

  • Mike, Weymouth

    Surprise surprise the American publication put another American fighter on the P4P list. Granted the list is largely irrelevant as it’s purely subjective, but for “The Bible of Boxing” which surely should be unbiased and blind of nationality it just reeks of pro-yank agenda.

    • Kudos

      A lot of these ‘journalists’ only watch guys that fight on U.S soil.

  • Kiowhatta

    Is Tyson Fury still ranked #1 in the HW division? I thought it was a joke how long he remained there when it was obvious he wasn’t coming back anytime soon.

    • Keano

      Yep they’ve broken their own rules again. They just want Tyson Fury to be the champ in case he comes back to fight Joshua. If he doesn’t they will strip Fury and put the belt on the line for Joshua Wilder when it happens. You heard it here first, so predictable

    • Col Carter

      The Ring still has Canelo as MW champ and he has never “allowed” an opponent to weigh the MW max. That is a real joke.

  • Giuseppe

    Would have Wangek at no1 until proven otherwise. Estrada 2. Inoue 3.

    • ceylon mooney

      id have to go with inoue over estrada on 115 resume alone. add that he KOd narcaez and that helps too. def SSR at #1.

      for me 115 goes
      SSR, inoue, estrada, cuadras

      btw i thought the cuadras estrada fight was close. i scored it nearly the same as the judges. cuadras started out decisively winnin those early rounds. wstrada won hisnrounds more decisively for sure.

  • Big Chris

    Surprise, surprise. If one excludes Doug (who can be very anti-European as well) Ring is grossly anti-European and anti-white and the guys can’t even hide it (no matter how hard they try). Me and my bestie both stopped buying this biased mag once they elevated Ward at #1 despite him clearly losing to Kovalev. As for the second fight? Americans once again proved that even using a knife against a whitie Ruskie is legit. Listen man, I am tired of the PC madness and sugar-coated racism of American media and fan-base. Spence is alright but he beat a damaged Brook who was returning in the ring after the tsunami called GGG. He’s regarded as road warrior because he’s one of the very few Americans in recent history who fought and won in a foreign territory. That’s a rare thing for an American. That’s why all they have is 2 Olympic champs from 1996-2016, while Uzbekistan produced 3 or 4 in Rio 2016 alone. In the eyes of Americans Spence is Alexander the Great for beating the champ in foreign soil, but dudes like Usyk, Lomachenko, GGG and Klitschkos who fight outside hom in 95% of their career are just bums, all hype etc etc.

    Next time some of you notice the disgusting and open racism of black boxers and black fans (the vast majority of them literally deny to give the slightest credit to any non-black boxer) don’t blame them, black people and media like Ring, Kevin Lole and this Rosenthal dude. Usyk could win the tournament in style and not even get credit simply because Rosenthal sees Adolf Hitler in every white European face he looks at. You dear journalists are racist to the bone and more and more people begin to see how racist the US boxing system is. Take off the Eastern Euros and Mexicans and the Brits and look what American boxing is left with: some spoiled, hometown divas aka Ward and Broner and Mayweather. And you wonder why boxing in USA dies?

    • Keano

      Completely agree, unbiased, fair fews, and Ward loses the first fight by 2 rounds + knockdown, and is DQ’ed in the second.

      • Ward ‘clearly’ lost to the so-called Krusher then the feather fisted Ward comes back and knocks out the ‘Krusher’. And you Trump fans STILL believe there is a global conspiracy against you guys.

        • Keano

          I don’t know how I am a trump fan? Ward beat the hell out of Krushers ballsack that’s it.

          • left hook

            There was no low blow as far as we can see. There is no clear video that’s shows his fist hitting low. Maybe one or two went low but it wasnt intentional. Kovalev was holding, putting ward in headlocks…Why are u not complaining about that or do u deny that didn’t happen.

          • Keano

            Lmao because Ward charges headfirst and that is the only way to stop your face getting split open

          • left hook

            U just a hater…he doesn’t charge head first…if u wanna see head first charging watch Hatton vs tzyu or Porter vs Berto.

          • Keano

            He doesn’t charge head first. My lord. Believe what you want to believe. I don’t hate Ward at all, I enjoy listening to him commentate and he seems controlled and calm outside the ring. His style however, is not boxing

          • left hook

            Well you wouldn’t know much about boxing cuz u have not had a fight before. I just gave u examples of fighters who used their heads to fight. Kovalev was fouling Ward but u chose to look away and not bring that up, shows your bias and hating. Anyway believe want you wanna believe too.

        • D Johnson

          It’s not just Trump supporters unfortunately. It seems as social media has grown, we have all become self-righteous, know-it-all, victims, incapable of looking in-ward. We no longer need to go inwards and try to understand our feelings. It’s much easier to go online, find a group of people that can validate our insecurities. It’s much easier to do, but we are worse for it . just my Opinion of course.

        • Kudos

          Keep politics out of it dickhead. CNN and Espn are making Americans deranged.

      • Tali l

        Why can’t you guys just get over it? Ward stopped him in the second fight. It’s over. It’s done.

        • Keano

          With low blows and should have been DQ’ed

    • ceylon mooney

      doug had ward losing the first
      kovalev fight

    • JV316

      and you didn’t even mention the illuminati, gotta keep an eye on them too

      • left hook

        Lol

    • D Johnson

      Wow, just wow 😳.

      • Kudos

        Why? Actually valid points in there that are undeniable.

        • D Johnson

          Donald Trump can make valid points from time to time. but 99% of it gets lost with all the other garbage he vomits up.
          So you are going to have to let me know what points you think are undeniable. Facts are undeniable. Opinions are open for debate.

          • Kudos

            I thought it was a troll at first then there was some good points made.

        • Reggie Woodard

          Gibberish….. Keep riding with that clown.

          • Kudos

            Refute some of his claims then. You can’t.

          • Reggie Woodard

            I can easily rip those ignorant claims to shreds…. It’s wasteful though.
            We’re here for boxing, not insecure and racially tinged takes on fighters/matchups.

    • left hook

      That SOG’s win still give you sleepless nights… Why dont you go to the hood and punch a black guy in the face and see if U make it out alive.

      • JV316

        it’s funny how badly it’s haunting fools

      • Kudos

        So you’re saying blacks are thugs….

        • left hook

          There are black, white, Asians, latino thugs.

      • Reggie Woodard

        I’ve already tried that approach with him and all I got was crickets…

    • Kudos

      Some good points, they’re brainwashed by the far left dominated media. Seems like even espn is a propaganda machine for the democratic party.

  • RayK

    I saw a quote from Gonzalez this morning which included…”no excuses”.

  • Tony Nightstick

    Thurman was one of the Top 3 finalists? I don’t see that at all.

    • ceylon mooney

      nowhere close. p4p #25 mmmmaaaayybe.

  • ceylon mooney

    more bullshit ratings. thurman and spence are the least deserving of that short list. gimma a effin break.

  • Chris Gonzalez

    I believe Spence is the better fighter compared to Thurman, but Thurman has beaten better competition. Rungvisai should’ve got the nod though, he beat the former #1 P4P best in a decision, then knocked him cold in the rematch.

    • ceylon mooney

      neither should be higher than 25 on a pfp list

      i pick spence over thurman

      dont like thurman neither

  • Fist_ti_cuffs

    I call bullshit. Thurman has the better resume and has to battle Porter (who has ever looked good against him) and Garcia (undefeated). Oh well at least SOG is #1 for now.

    • Tali l

      Yeah Thurman was the clear option.

  • KillaBlu

    I don’t agree with Spence being up there. He’s no doubt talented but he still has a lot to prove, no point in rushing him. Honestly I’d put Linares up there, the guy is as talented as any other fighter in their rankings and is coming off the two biggest wins of his career, give my boy his time to shine

  • Chris Smith

    I think Sor Rungvisai is unlucky to not be on. I mean after all he beat the previous #1 twice (once by controversial decision & once by blowout) yet no top 10, but Ward was elevated to #1 after an even more controversial decision win (even before the controversial re-match stoppage). I don’t know. More than 10 places separating those guys?

    Rigondeaux inclusion also to me doesn’t make sense. Especially if we are going on resume. He’s done basically nothing since April 2013. That’s a long time. I think Estrada is both a better fighter, with a better career resume and recent resume than him.

    All subjective I guess and not to be taken too seriously.

  • Ciscostudent561

    Couple of things
    I’m not a “Top 10” P4P guy. The P4P list should only have guys who’ve earned it on two basis:
    Skill+Resume
    Skill is based on not only boxing techniques and fundamentals but attributes like speed and power that cant be taught.
    Resume speaks for itself

    With that conisdered I don’t think you put Spence in the list. The list grows and shortens with available fighters but tops off at 10 at the most.

    Spence looks the part but hasn’t done enough
    I think SSR looks the part and has done enough
    Thurman does not look the part but has done enough

    Only SSR could make the list and you would just leave it there.

    Anyway Ima go off the top of my head forgive me if I forget someone

    Ward
    Crawford
    GGG
    Kovalev
    Garcia
    Loma
    SSR
    Inoue
    Canelo

  • Dee Money

    I’m not as big of a resume guy as most (seeing as how not everyone gets to fight the same type of resume as others). But I don’t know how anyone can defend SSR based on his resume.

    Over his last 10 fights he has the two very big wins over Gonzalez- who many now claim to have always known wasn’t a p4p guy anyways. But more importantly he has 3 wins over guys making their debuts, and the rest over journeymen most of whom have losing records. Change it to his last 20 fights and you get the salgado win, and then more of the same.

    I just don’t see how people who put big stock in “resume” can put SSR in their top 10 unless you want to focus on an extremely limited sample size.

    • Ciscostudent561

      resume isn’t too me who you faced or even the consistency of who you faced. everyone has their easy wins.
      Resume to me is, who you beat and how good they were when you beat them.

      For instance
      Fighter A)
      Beats a Journeymen, Beats a Mando, Beats An ATG in their prime, Beats a champion in their prime
      is more impressive to me then
      Fighter B
      Beats a mando in their prime, beats a mando in their prime, beats a mando in their prime, beats a journeymen

      Fighter B had more consistent challenges, but Fighter A had the better resume

      • Dee Money

        I can see that, but then I still think you have to take into account sample size. Otherwise you are just rewarding one or two big wins. In the case of SSR his 5 fights leading into Gonzalez were not even journeymen level they were two guys with a losing record and three guys making their debut.

        Where did everyone have SSR coming into the 1st Gonzalez fight? I bet nobody had him in their top 35 let alone top 25. Do those two wins, with all things taken into account, leap frog him over everyone else?

        • Ciscostudent561

          yes, i think they do IF he looks good doing it. And he looked the part too me. he’s not p4p #1 for me but beating Choco twice is a pretty big deal. I got him slightly at 9 but I see your argument. its valid.

          • Dee Money

            Thats a valid assessment, I’m interested to see what he does next now.

  • Angelo

    Wow! Did Wangek not beat Gonzalez in even more impressive and dynamic fashion than Spence beat Brook, a fighter who was not even on the P4P list and who was coming down from 160 and coming off of an orbital bone surgery? This is all a money move–trying to hype the fighters they think will be the next money makers and leaving the lesser known and truly elite fighters in the dark.

  • Frank-dogg

    These rankings are totally subjective. Not worth pulling your hair out of your head. They always give a certain amount of boxers the benefit of the doubt, regardless of who they fight.

  • Teddy Reynoso

    I have no beef about Spence being there but what pretzel twisting mental process went on in the reckoning as to totally downgrade if not ignore Sor Rungvusai landmark conquest of Roman Gonzales? Just early this year, the Ring was proudly and unabashedly proclaiming the all time greatness of Chocolatito. And even after his close loss to SAR, they did not drop him from the elite list. Now suddenly, the poor Nicaraguan is being considered as a damaged goods. Which was to say that SSR’s repeat win was but natural and hence meant nothing special. The nerve!

    • Tali l

      I never bought Gonzalez was number #1 p4p, but yeah the excuses in the article are weak. They were riding him like crazy just a few months ago like you said. He simply met someone too strong for him.

  • TMT NYC-DA REAL GHOSTBUSTERS

    Floyd should un-retire on more time just to give this Errol Spence his first loss.

  • Kudos

    Ring magazine wanted an American in the list.

  • A F

    Have to agree that this stinks of American bias. It’s easy to name several people more deserving than Spence who’s only quality win was over a damaged champ coming off a loss. AJ’s just as deserving if you ask me. Full of promise but having had 1 decent win against a long standing champion that was coming off a loss that had seemingly taken a step out of them. That description could be either Brook or Klitschko…. Neither AJ or Spence should be on the p4p list for that respective win.

    Thurman’s more deserving as is the fella who KO’d Gonzalez, Usyk has better wins under his belt too and Badou Jack, Linares has been on a great run and even Carl Frampton’s got two wins over Kiko Martinez, one over Quigg and 1-1 vs LSC which put him above Spence imo.

    I respect Spence, he’s a quality fighter and not afraid to travel like many Americans but he shouldn’t be top 10 p4p….yet.

  • Tali l

    I don’t think Gonzalez was ever number 1 p4p to begin with so Rungvisai is out of the question IMO. Nice to see y’all making excuses for gonzalez loss though.

    And thurman “barely beat Porter and Garcia” but “Spence dominated Brook?” Porter was a bad styles match for him and he still clearly won 7-5. And he clearly schooled Garcia. Yes Spence got a great win against brook but he had to fight for it. Talk about biased. Two top 5 welterweights back to back and his opponents were in a better place in their career than Kell brook was to be fair. Thurman should have got in.