Saturday, November 25, 2017  |

News

Dougie’s Monday mailbag (SuperFly feedback, Chocolatito in perspective)

Wisaksil Wangek clips Roman Gonzalez with a wicked right hook en route to KOing the Nicaraguan legend. Photo / @HBOBoxing
11
Sep

FAREWELL AND HELLO

Mr. Fischer,

I bow to Roman “Chocolatito” Gonzalez and wish him the best. A great fighter he is but now it’s time to retire. It was such a joy following his craft or should I say “his art of boxing.” Would you consider him an ATG?

Carlos Cuadras vs. Juan Estrada: 12 action packed rounds. This fight is in the running for Fight of the Year with Gonzales vs. Sor Rungvisai I. I had it for Estrada 114:113 – the knockdown made the difference.

Nayoya Inoue seems to be the small version of GGG. Did I get something wrong or does he have exactly the same style as Gennady Golovkin? Only thing: He could get some additional lessons from GGG to cutting the ring off.

Can’t wait for the middleweight clash on Saturday. Hope it’s not going to the scorecards and will not be stopped premature. – Matthias

I don’t want to stress you out, Matthias, but I think Canelo-Golovkin will go the full 12. This shouldn’t be a bad thing as long as the official judges are fair.

Does Inoue have the same style as Golovkin? Not to my eyes, although I can see why you would compare the two. They have the same ring mentality, which is that of an expert hunter. They both walk their opponents down with a stiff jab and wiked body attack. However, Golovkin is a more of a methodical technician with a fuller arsenal, while Inoue is a more dynamic/athletic boxer-puncher. I think GGG is the more complete fighter at this point, but Inoue is only 24 years old with 14 pro bouts under his belt. He’s got A LOT of time and room for improvements. Hopefully, U.S. fans will get the opportunity to view more of his development on HBO.

Photo by German Villasenor

I think Estrada-Cuadras is definitely a Fight of the Year candidate, but it wasn’t as intense and savage as Gonzalez-Sor Rungvisai I. That’s still my front-runner. But Saturday night’s Mexican grudge match was boxing at its highest level: two skilled, talented, gutsy world-class fighters in their primes – with contrasting styles – going tit for tat for 12 rounds. I had the same scorecard as you and all three official judges. The knockdown was the clincher for Estrada. However, more than a few ringside fight scribes scored for Estrada by wider margins, 115-112 and 116-111. And I can understand those scores. Estrada was outhustled by Cuadras over the opening three or four rounds, and energetic Guadalajara native did a good job of sticking and moving over the first half of the bout, but “El Gallo” was landing the harder punches throughout the contest.

I bow to Roman “Chocolatito” Gonzalez and wish him the best. That’s the most appropriate thing to do. (I don’t get why

A great fighter he is but now it’s time to retire. I agree (and I like how you phrased that statement the way Yoda would say it because Gonzalez is a Jedi master among prize fighters).

It was such a joy following his craft or should I say “his art of boxing.” Indeed. While still at his peak, his technical aggression was so breath taking even a great boxer like Larry Holmes had to give him his props. It’s too bad that most U.S. fans never saw or heard of him until his HBO debut just a little over two years ago. Too many loudmouths on Twitter don’t even realize that they’ve never seen Chocolatito at his best.

Would you consider him an ATG? I don’t know about that, but he’s definitely a future hall of famer, probably a first ballot inductee.

 

AMAZING!

Hi Doug,

I would very much like to see Chocolatito go the rest of his life without ever getting hit like that again. So either retire, or fight a gatekeeper in his home country for a farewell bout.

With that out of the way… Incredible effort by Wangek! Like everyone in Thailand said, but now the world believes!

I’m sure everyone will write to you asking who he should fight next, etc., but my question is: will Wangek be able to be a star in America? Or is he better off trying to draw the defenses of his title back to Thailand, or even fighting Inoue in Japan?

Thanks, and hope you enjoyed the show! – Kim

I did indeed, Kim, even though I witnessed one of my favorite fighters get stretched in chilling fashion (and was then nearly made ill by the disrespectful comments that a small group of Twitter cretins spat upon him). “SuperFly” delivered a Fight of the Year candidate, an impressive U.S. debut of a young Japanese star, a KO of the Year candidate and the end of a legendary lighter-weight run. 

Props to you for not only predicting (in Friday’s mailbag) that Wangek would win again, but that he would do so “more convincingly.” He certainly did. 

Can Wangek be a star in the U.S.? No, I don’t think so. As amazing as Chocolatito was, he couldn’t draw more than 6,000-7,000 fans when headlining shows in the U.S. It’s very rare even for sub-bantamweight American boxers, no matter how talented (just ask hall of famer Mark “Too Sharp” Johnson), to become a star in the U.S. I think the late Johnny Tapia is the closest we ever got to embracing a badass 115 pounder (and, apart from his showdown with Danny Romero, his biggest fights – vs. Marco Antonio Barrera and Paulie Ayala – took place between 118 and 126 pounds). 

Having said that, just because Wangek may never be an attraction in the U.S. doesn’t mean he can’t fight here and make a darn good living. If he’s matched with popular Mexican fighters, such as his WBC mandatory with Estrada or a rematch with Cuadras, his fights would draw very well in Southern California, Arizona and Texas. I think HBO would be interested in those fights, and if he returned to StubHub Center against one of those two Mexican standouts they would sell out the outdoor venue. 

And I tell you what, hardcore Mexican/Mexican-American fans that saw his first fight with Gonzalez, and those who were in attendance for the rematch at StubHub (and are familiar with his fight with Cuadras) will give him his due respect going forward. He was booed before the Gonzalez rematch (which was messed up), but I doubt that ever happens again. 

His victory on Sept. 9 was the most significant and emphatic victory by a Thai fighter on U.S. soil since Saman Sorjaturong knocked out future hall of famer Humberto “Chiquita” Gonzalez at The Forum back in 1995 (and, yes, I was there that night – as a fan).

 

NUMBER ONE POUND FOR POUND?

If you recall I emailed after the first fight that Chocolatito that he was taking too much punishment and he was allowing people to run him through the meat grinder taking oun after punishment even in wins. He clearly lost the last fight to me and from the very beginning he lost this fight.

He moved up in weight taking on badass after badass that leads to a short career. When he’s punch-drunk and broke nobody will give a damn, that’s the sport.

But people hate on Andre Ward. I don’t get it… Thank you. – Jason C. Brown

People “hate” on Ward? Really? I think folks – fans, media, network executives, Nevada boxing commissioners and officials – have been lining up to kiss his ass even before he got a gift decision against Sergey Kovalev. He got elevated to the consensus No. 1 Pound for Pound spot after back-to-back controversial fights. Then he announces to the boxing media that his HBO contract is up, that he’s a free agent, and even tosses in how impressed he is with Top Rank and ESPN’s boxing program (after working the Crawford-Indongo broadcast), and what does HBO do? They welcome him back as a commentator on their network with open arms and a big warm, wet kiss to his mulatto butt cheeks.

If that’s “hate,” we should all hope to be hated like that.

My definition of hate is what some Twitter trolls said about Gonzalez – a man who fought the best fighters in FOUR freakin’ weight classes, always gave 100% in the ring, and never disrespected his opponents or the sport – after Saturday’s knockout loss. These trifling dirt bags called a competitor like that a “bum” and “hype job.” I had to mute ‘em all.

He moved up in weight taking on badass after badass that leads to a short career. It almost sounds like you’re saying that it’s a bad thing for a boxer to challenge himself. So what if it leads to a short career? (Not that 12 years – nine at the championship level – is “short,” especially for straw/flyweights.) A long career isn’t good for anyone’s brain, either.

When he’s punch-drunk and broke nobody will give a damn, that’s the sport. Why do you always bring up the prospect of being “punch-drunk” whenever an aggressive fighter gets cold cocked? Neutralizers and safety first stinkers get KTFO too, ya know! There are just as many boxers who were once savvy stylists walking around on their heels as there are former blood-and-guts brawlers. I don’t recall you bringing up the prospect of pugilistic dementia when Bernard Hopkins got knocked out of the ring by Joe Smith Jr. and had his cranium cracked against the cold, hard floor of The Forum. And he was nearly 52 years old, with more than 26 years in the game! For B-Hop you rightfully gave the old man his props for a grand career. Why can’t you do that for Chocolatito?

 

APPRECIATION FOR A THROWBACK FIGHTER

Hi Dougie,

Hope all is well, bro.

Such a dramatic and epic card this weekend, Superfly truly delivered. From the US debut of Inoue, to the great fight between Estrada and Cuadras, to the drama of the Gonzalez fight. Excited to see Rungvisai-Estrada and Inoue hopefully fighting the winner in a great unification bout next year.

Just wanted to say to those who are doubting the achievements and career of Roman Gonzalez after this fight such a Lou DiBella and his ilk. Shame on you.

.  The first fighter from his native Nicaragua to win a Championship in four different divisions. His mentor and idol, Alexis Arguello, was a champion in three and valiantly went for his fourth with the great Aaron Pryor.

. One of the very few lower weight class fighters to achieve Pound for Pound best fighter status.

. In an era with selective matching of fighters, Roman Gonzalez truly fought everyone and the best opposition. Carlos Cuadras, JF Estrada, Yaegashi, Viloria, Takayama, Niida. The list goes on and on.

. He was a fighter that was truly global, fighting across the world, in Japan, Mexico, USA, etc. That is a true world champion, not just staying in Las Vegas.

. True boxing fans were in awe at his incredible boxing skills, his footwork, combination punching, and his relentless approach. Lee Wylie shows the greatness of the little man in his videos. For me, his victory over Yaegashi is his best victory of his career. What do you think Dougie?

. Maybe most significantly, as mentioned by Cliff Rold, he bought boxing’s lower weight classes to the masses, once cruelly ignored to overseas streams for a very small number to watch and admire to our TVs via HBO and global TV. He led the way for talents such a Naoya Inoue to be shown on HBO, to be appreciated by the masses, not just the hardcore.

Thank you Roman for giving me and boxing fans so much enjoyment. Your career was an epic one, and we salute you for being a true throwback fighter. Mark Johnson and Finito Lopez were the gold standard when I started to watch boxing. Undoubtedly, you have joined such hallowed company. Thanks Dougie. – Abdul-Qadir Ali, Ireland

No doubt about it, Abdul-Qadir, Gonzalez belongs in that hall-of-fame enshrined company. Thank you for submitting this well-written tribute to Chocolatito. It has restored my faith in boxing fans. (You spend enough time on Twitter and you start to wonder if anyone has any damn sense.)

Just wanted to say to those who are doubting the achievements and career of Roman Gonzalez after this fight such a Lou DiBella and his ilk. Shame on you. These folks are shameless. They’re either ignorant and narrow minded to the extreme, or they’ve got an agenda. (Or they’re just worthless pieces of s__t.)

The first fighter from his native Nicaragua to win a Championship in four different divisions. Yes, and it should be noted that Gonzalez was THE RING’s No. 1-rated fighter at strawweight, junior flyweight and flyweight (before he earned the WBC and the magazine’s 112-pound titles); and he was No. 2 (behind only Inoue) at junior bantamweight, so he was obviously facing the best fighters of each weight class that he campaigned in. His four-division title run was not of the Adrien Broner variety.

One of the very few lower weight class fighters to achieve Pound for Pound best fighter status. As far as I’m aware, he’s represented the lightest divisions (flyweight and junior bantamweight) ever to reach No. 1. (It’s too bad that his mere presence in the top spot of the mythical rankings ruffled the feathers of a very insecure and xenophobic segment of U.S. boxing fans/insiders – their collective blind spot caused them to miss out on something really special.)

Gonzalez cracks Sosa with a jab. Photo / Naoki Fukuda

In an era with selective matching of fighters, Roman Gonzalez truly fought everyone and the best opposition. Carlos Cuadras, JF Estrada, Yaegashi, Viloria, Takayama, Niida. The list goes on and on. Yup, and Rocky Fuentes, McWilliams Arroyo, Francisco Rodriguez Jr., and Ramon Hirales were no slouches either when Chocolatito faced them. Edgar Sosa was past his prime when Gonzalez faced him in his HBO debut, but Choco did what an elite fighter should do against a faded veteran – he blew the former long-reigning WBC 108-pound champ out.

He was a fighter that was truly global, fighting across the world, in Japan, Mexico, USA, etc. That is a true world champion, not just staying in Las Vegas. I’m so glad (honored, really) that I got to see him fight live seven times (going back to that sensational 12-round battle with Estrada in late 2012) when he fought in the U.S.

True boxing fans were in awe at his incredible boxing skills, his footwork, combination punching, and his relentless approach. Gonzalez was an irresistible force for almost nine years, plowing through or outworking tough and talented 105, 108 and 112 pounders until he met his immovable object at 115 pounds – Sor Rungvisai.

Lee Wylie shows the greatness of the little man in his videos. For me, his victory over Yaegashi is his best victory of his career. What do you think Dougie? He was in top form for his flyweight championship victory, but I think the points win over Cuadras for his fourth world title in a fourth weight class has to be the most significant of his career. His 108-pound title

Gonzalez and Viloria go at it. Photo / Naoki Fukuda

defense against Estrada is my personal favorite. “Gallo” gave Gonzalez all he could handle and brought out his best. The atmosphere inside the L.A. Sports Arena that night was sensational (and Gonzalez-Estrada was the co-featured bout – the Brian Viloria-Tyson Marquez WBO/WBA flyweight unification fight was the main event and it was just as dramatic and entertaining). Speaking of Viloria, I thought Gonzalez’s ninth-round stoppage of the Hawaiian veteran in October 2015 was one of his signature victories.

Maybe most significantly, as mentioned by Cliff Rold, he bought boxing’s lower weight classes to the masses, once cruelly ignored to overseas streams for a very small number to watch and admire to our TVs via HBO and global TV. There were other sub-bantamweights who made their way onto premium U.S. cable (HBO and Showtime) before Chocolatito – including Tapia, Johnson, Viloria, Jorge Arce, Vic Darchinyan, Fernando Montiel and Nonito Donaire – but the Nicaraguan badass ended a five-year draught, and reminded HBO executives of the talent that resides in the flyweight classes.

He led the way for talents such a Naoya Inoue to be shown on HBO, to be appreciated by the masses, not just the hardcoreYes indeed, and hopefully the masses are treated to a 115-pound round robin that includes Inoue, Sor Rungvisai, Estrada, Cuadras, Kal Yafai and Jerwin Ancajas over the next 24 months.

 

WHAT A NIGHT!

Dougie how’s everything? Hope you were entertained as much as I was on Saturday night.

So I was debating with my friend on weight classes and fighters after Saturday night. He stated that there is no way that a fighter like Chocolatito would last at welterweight or higher because the lower weight class guys can give and take a lot better than then most higher weight guys so it kind of takes a lot away from their career. I argued that it isn’t the weight but the fighter himself that determines this. If someone can throw punches, bang, has a chin then he does regardless of weight. It’s a style thing. What do you think??

I thoroughly enjoyed the night Saturday. I loved this card, easily the best card I have seen since maybe the Garcia vs Matthysse and Floyd vs Canelo card. What is your favorite fight card of recent years?

Mythical matchups: Crawford vs Tim Bradley 140

Maidana vs Thurman 147

Canelo vs Sergio Martinez (prime)

Sor Rungvisai vs Inoue

Thank you so much for reading and answering. I can’t wait to read the next mailbag! You’re the man!! – Juan

Thank you for the kind words, Juan. 

I’ll go with Crawford, Thurman, Martinez and Inoue by close decision in your mythical (and potential) matchups. 

My favorite fight card in recent years? “SuperFly” is definitely among my top four or five during the past five years. The doubleheader that featured Viloria-Marquez and Gonzalez-Estrada that I mentioned in my previous response is among the best. The Showtime quadruple header that was topped by Adrien Broner-Marcos Maidana and Keith Thurman-Jesus Soto Karass in December 2013 was a good one (I did the international call to that one with Dave Bontempo); and the Showtime triple header headlined by Thurman-Diego Chaves, Andre Berto-Jesus Soto Karass and Omar Figueroa Jr.-Nihito Arakawa (the toughest S.O.B. from Japan before Yoshihiro Kamegai took that mantle) in July 2013 was a hell of a card (I watched that one on TV). 

Regarding the longevity of sub-bantamweight fighters, I think you and your friend are both right. It is natural for lighter-weight fighters to mature, peak and burnout quicker than heavier-weight fighters. They have faster metabolisms than the bigger men and on average they’re way more active in the ring. It’s normal for a flyweight to have hit his peak by his mid-20s, where as a heavyweight is usually still developing at that age and may not hit his athletic peak until his late 20s/early 30s. However, fighting styles are also a factor. An aggressive, relentless fighter like Chocolatito is going to hit the wall a lot faster than a versatile boxer-puncher like Viloria. Gonzalez is probably done at age 30. Viloria is still going at age 36.

 

END OF AN ERA, START OF A NEW ONE

Hey Dougie,

Just finished watching the SuperFly match ups and for the most part they lived up to the hype.

Entertaining fights from both Estrada-Cuadras and Inoue-Nieves. Some thoughts on Inoue’s debut. The kid has some shocking power at 115. The body shots he landed on Nieves late in the fight looked devastating. I can see Inoue possibly cleaning house at 115, but his fight did leave me with some questions regarding his style and technique. He is selective and accurate with his shots and looks very efficient using his energy, and his opponent’s energy, to his advantage, but his punches sometimes come off awkward leaving his chin high and very exposed. He also tends to loop his punches a bit, which also leaves himself open to be countered, which could make or break him against a strong Sor Rungvisai or a more technical Estrada (hopefully we see those matchups.) Overall an impressive showing if not appearing a bit amateurish at times. Obviously, he was putting on a show and wasn’t worried about his opponent so not too surprising of an outcome. What’s your thoughts on where Inoue goes next? How do you see him against Estrada, Sor Rungvisai, Cuadras, or Chocolatito? (Sadly, I don’t think that one will come to pass.)

As for Chocolatito-Sor Rungvisai, that was a hard one to watch being a longtime fan of Chocolatito. After the 1st minute of the 1st round I knew he wasn’t in that fight. HBO commentary made it seem as if he simply didn’t want it anymore, that remains to be seen, to me it seems he just got old in the last two fights. I think the Cuadras fight and the first fight with Sor Rungvisai just sucked the life out of him (not to mention the wars he was in before those fights). Just show that it’s a young man’s game, especially in the lighter divisions. Where do you see Chocolatito going from here? He could move back down to flyweight, but I wouldn’t be surprised to see him hang the gloves up. All I can say is, what a champion, and that even in defeat he will still be recognized as one the greats.

If this is indeed the end of the Chocolatito era do you believe Inoue or Sor Rungvisai can take up the mantle for the truly little guys? I’m not sure Sor Rungvisai has crossover appeal but if Inoue is managed correctly I can definitely see him being a cross over star as more and more fans are welcoming of the blooming Japanese boxing scene.

GGG vs Canelo—Just excited! No questions or comments, I just hope fans and media alike step back and enjoy this one.

Final Thought and Question: What is one of your favorite all time fights that you believe the general boxing world, even some hardcore heads, don’t know about and why? Thanks. – Jon M., Grand Rapids, MI

I have no idea what fights the “hardcore heads” don’t know about, but in honor of Chocolatito’s prime divisions, I’ll name favorites at strawweight (the 2014 IBF/WBO title unification bout between former Gonzalez opponents Francisco Rodriguez Jr. and Katsunari Takayama), junior flyweight (the IBF/WBC title unification between future hall of famers Michael Carbajal and Chiquita Gonzalez – their classic first confrontation in 1993) and flyweight (the savage slugfest between Giovani Segura and Tyson Marquez in 2013). Marquez’s 2011 war with Luis Conception for the WBA title is also worth peeping.

You have the right idea about Canelo-GGG. Let’s just try to enjoy this one. Fights like this don’t come around very often.

I agree with your thoughts on Sor Rungvisai-Gonzalez (“Chocolatito” just didn’t have it, and “it” may very well have been sapped from him in his previous two bouts) and on Inoue’s U.S. debut (it was an impressive but not awe-inspiring performance).

What’s your thoughts on where Inoue goes next? There are rumors that he may move to bantamweight by the end of 2017, but I hope he remains in the extremely deep 115-pound division for at least another year. If he does jump to 118 pounds, I’d like to see him challenge Mexico’s Luis Nery or South Africa’s Zolani Tete as soon as possible.

How do you see him against Estrada, Sor Rungvisai, Cuadras, or Chocolatito? (Sadly, I don’t think that one will come to pass.) I’ll be happy if we don’t see Inoue-Gonzalez. Chocolatito would get smashed at this stage of his career. I think Estrada, because of his sound foundation and complete game, presents the biggest threat to Inoue. In fact, if they were to fight this year, I’d pick “Gallo” to beat him, maybe by late stoppage. I think “The Monster” can outpoint Sor Rungvisai and Cuadras, but those would be tough fights.

Where do you see Chocolatito going from here? Hopefully, retirement. He’s made good money and he’s got nothing more to prove or accomplish.

If this is indeed the end of the Chocolatito era do you believe Inoue or Sor Rungvisai can take up the mantle for the truly little guys? Inoue can do it if he makes the right moves. He’s got the talent, the style, the charisma, and time is on his side.

 

Email Fischer at [email protected]. Follow him on Twitter at @dougiefischer, Instagram and Periscope:

  • David Telfer

    Doug I think your comments about Ward are absolutely spot on. Even though he lost both fights controversially to Kovalev – people couldn’t wait to put him straight at the top of the P4P table.

    Some of the comments about Gonzalez have been ill-informed and downright stupid. Saying he was always a hype job and he’s only beaten bums…laughable!

    I personally think he should retire. I watched the fight on Sky Sports and the commentators noticed that even in the dressing room he didn’t look comfortable. Then during his intro he looked distracted/emotional – almost like he was already beaten.

    • Giuseppe

      he looked heartbroken and low energy in the fight and – as you say – even during the handwrapping.

      • ceylon mooney

        when everyone sees the same thing its hard to say its just my imagination.

      • Stephen M

        And he was hesitant and complaining to the ref right at the beginning of the fight. He really had nothing.

        • David Telfer

          I think he had every reason to moan at the referee for headbutts, considering what happened in their first fight.

          • Stephen M

            I’m not saying that he didn’t have a legitimate gripe but he didn’t seem like he was concentrating on the fight.

    • Joe Steed III

      But people have rushed to put Lomachenko at the top of the list…People rushed to put Roman at the top of the list. At least Ward was deserving and proved it in an immediate rematch. Loma won’t pay Salido to try to avenge his loss and Roman never fought El Gallo or Caudras again. Double standards. Say you dont like Ward. Bullshit excuses that apply to other fighters with lesser resumes whom you don’t hold it against makes you a hypocrite. Just say you don’t like the man.

    • Andy T

      I don’t get this regardless of opinion Ward won the 2 fights he beat a fighter in Kovalev a weight above who was ranked No 2 in the P4P list. So yes he should go to No1

  • Teddy Reynoso

    If we go by.history, I think the most significant and emphatic win by a Thai fighter on U S soil was when Pone Kingpetch repeated his win over Argentine great –and American darling—Pascual Perez in the early 60s in the rematch of their world flyweight championship bout held in Kid Angeles. In their first fight, Kingpetch dethroned Perez in Bangkok via close decision. He proved that the win was no fluke by stopping Perez in the rematch a few months later. It was lightning striking twice as has been the case with Wisaksil Wangek against Nicaraguan great and American darling Chocolatito Gonzales.

    • Son of God

      Good post you know your stuff. That’s what great champions do, you take their title in the first fight and then you take their soul in the second fight.

      • Frank-dogg

        Hurts me to say it, SOG did that to the Krusher.

    • TMT NYC-DA REAL GHOSTBUSTERS

      What is a kingpetch? Did you mean a “king perch” a type of fish?

  • Giuseppe

    Wow. I think those judges must have really liked Cuadras head movement… but maybe didn’t see his head was being ‘moved’ by Estrada’s fists! Too close.

    Choc — i love the sullen little man and would be happy to see him end his career with an easier fight to go out happy. His last three fights have been pretty brutal man. he’s earned a gimme and a golden handshake.

    Inoue — those bodyshots! I liked his cockiness, too. Will be great to see a top Japanese fighter on a regular basis without a timezone calculator!

    • Juan Manuel Valverde

      I had Estrada comfortably ahead 116-111.

      Chocolatito can have one more fight to redeem himself, a lot of great fighters came back after devastating KO’s to show their true greatness, we never know.

      Inoue, loved those body shots, I did see a lot of flaws, basically inexperience, he doesn’t cut the ring that well and he leaves himself wide open after he throws his jab, he could be in for a long night against any of the other Super Flies on the card

      • Giuseppe

        i think he out guns Cuadras. Loses to Estrada right now but probably not in two fights time. Beats Yafai.

        • Juan Manuel Valverde

          I favor him over cuadras, too much power, loses to Estrada, and loses to Sor Rungvisai by KO

          • Mauro Hermida

            I will bet money that Inoue doesn’t get KOd. Have you ever seen the guy hurt? I have seen Estrada get wobbled by Viloria in a fight that could have gone either way and we have seen the SR lose to Cuadras and get worn down by Chocolatito in their first fight. SR isn’t hard to hit and I just woner how much he could take. I see Inoue blowing Cuadras out of there because, lets face it, he is too wide open with those wild shots. He will grind down Estrada, who spent way too many rounds picking his nose and not letting his hands go. If that is Inoue hitting him, zzzzzz. The kid made mistakes in this fight because it looked like he threw caution to the wind. I have seen this happen even with a guy like Lomachenko, who when he knows he has someone in there that cant possibly beat him, opens up and gets tagged in the process. You can see in Inoue’s other fights that he is more defensive when the fighter quality is better. I expect him to bring his A game against any of the top little guys. He will need it.

          • Juan Manuel Valverde

            Because he’s fought who?

            There’s nothing that proves he’s durable against a quality opponent. Right now he’s faced average to better than average opposition and looked good to awesome. Thats it. Whenever I see him blowout a guy like Cuadras them I’ll make him an overwhelming favorite over any of those guys you mentioned

          • Mauro Hermida

            My friend, I will be glad to bet on this one. Just make sure you don’t disappear when Inoue puts him out. I will be here, win or lose. I was very impressed with his victory over Narvaez. Sure he was old, but he took him out in 2. His victory over Kono was impressive. Kono was ranked at 6 by the ring when they fought if Im not mistaken. He has beaten some good fighters, evidenced by having more than 1 title to his resume. He is not some paper champ. Im not super impressed with Cuadras, who really wastes his ability. He is truly sloppy and has gotten by on his athleticism, which is impressive in its own right. He will leave himself very open and Inoue will take him out. Estrada will obviously take more work, but I don’t see it as a stretch, because I see Estrada as very good, but not great. He will be durable against Estrada because Estrada is not some great puncher and his work rate is limited. Inoue hits harder(by a good amount to my eyes) and is faster for sure. He isn’t as good defensively, but his power and strength will make up for it. KO.

          • Juan Manuel Valverde

            Look im not saying thats not a possibility but I see a lot if people jump into conclusions before we see fighters in against someone who’s putting them in a tough situation. I dont bet but Im here all the time to eat my crow if that happens. Now, this prediction is based on what we have right now. If the guy comes out and destroys Cuadras in his next fight, then things change. Right now he doesn’t seem like the full package to me. He’s just a young talented guy with power and speed but over the course of the 30 years I’ve been following boxing, I’ve seen this before many many times.

          • Mauro Hermida

            Its cool. Im high on the guy as you can tell. Its a guess based on what I have seen of both guys. Inoue makes mistakes, but I just don’t think anyone at 115 will be able to capitalize on them. 118 or 122 could be a different story.

          • Juan Manuel Valverde

            I do get your excitement. I saw the fight live at the Stubhub center and was not impressed by his ring generalship and how low he leaves his right hand after he throws it. I was impressed though with his body work, damn! He only has 15 fights, he’ll improve.

        • Randall Bannister

          I’m not so sure anymore about Yafai. Yafai is the naturally bigger man and Chocolatito has now been beaten twice (albeit controversially in the first fight) by a naturally bigger man who could handle his power. I think if anything Yafai is now the slight favourite.

          • Giuseppe

            could be and that probably makes the fight increasingly likely to be made.

    • Arjay Cee

      Inoue was a treat to watch working, wasn’t he? A monster-in-the-making, and I hope he’s on HBO a lot. Props to the brave Nieves; boxing is cruel to its mere mortals.

    • Wade Wilson

      I would have rather have seen him close the show than get cocky!

    • TMT NYC-DA REAL GHOSTBUSTERS

      He wasn’t sullen before his first loss!

      • Giuseppe

        someone give the little man a pat on the head and reassure him, for a while, he was the very best.

  • Giuseppe

    unrelated…

    I watched Bleed For This, the Vinny Pazienza biopic and thought it was great. Lots of fun. Bit of heart. Lots of brio. Miles Teller did a great job.

    • Randall Bannister

      Agreed, I said the same thing the other week when someone said ‘Hands of Stone’ was a great boxing movie…..😏

      Don’t worry though, I set him straight

      • ceylon mooney

        i didnt make it far into hands of stone. pity a crap movie how can u eff that one up?

    • ceylon mooney

      man it was
      good

    • Orca

      I keep hearing this getting brought up. I’m gonna check it out. Boxing movies have a low ko percentage but this one sounds decent.

      • Giuseppe

        yeah, only a handful of non rocky / raging bull good ones. I think Bleed for This is a good un.

        • Stephen M

          It has a built in great story…

  • Teddy Reynoso

    Humberto Gonzales was first beaten by a Filipino Rolando Pascua by TKO before he was defeated by Saman Surjaturong also in failed title defense much later.

  • Randall Bannister

    I can’t believe the Cuadras fight was scored so closely! I had it 116-112 to Estrada and even then I think I was being generous to Cuadras. He was totally outclassed.

    • David Telfer

      Exactly. Bossed the fight by sticking to his game plan.

      I have no idea what everyone else was seeing, especially Dan Rafael who has turned in some god awful cards in recent times.

      • Frank-dogg

        I totally agree. I was at the StubHub center, my seats were decent and I had it 115-112 for Estrada. Dude! The crowd went on an uproar when Cuadras was announced the winner. A lot of people were booing. The Buff screwed the pooch, but glad he corrected himself.

      • Randall Bannister

        Even in the “close” rounds when Cuadras was having some success Estrada always had the best of the exchanges. At no point during the fight did I think Cuadras landed something that deterred Estrada but at several points during Estrada had Cuadras reeling backwards and showing signs that he was hurt. HBO scoring was way off.

    • Juan Manuel Valverde

      Sometimes judges get carried away and give more credit to activity than deserved…

      • ceylon mooney

        that happens waaaaay too much

    • Jorge

      Yup I thought Estrada was controlling him with a jab and then when he opened up he was clearly superior.

  • Larry Connor

    First, Andre Ward won both fights and that’s that. They fought two times back to back. Ward won by decision then by stoppage. Let it go man, jeeze!

    Secondly, why does Chocalito have to retire? That’s his first true ass kicking that he has taken and maybe he bit off more than he could chew at that weight (too heavy). A guy lose a fight and we are all quick to say it’s over for them. Smh

    Third, where the F~{£ is the blitz promotion for this top notch MW fight we have coming up in less than a week?!!! Come on man, I see Canelo’s commercial with Sylvester Stallone more than I see promotion for his upcoming fight!! I’ve been screaming for the past two months that the promotion is severely lacking. Hell I even got a twitter response from HBO promotions that they would be ramping up the promotion after the Floyd vs McGregor hype. Clearly the potential fight of the year is this upcoming Saturday and we are not putting our best foot forward as far as a buzz! No one is talking about the fight outside of the usual fight fan suspects! The only fight parties I hear being planned are by the same crews that always plan fight parties; unlike this past big fight were as it seems everyone were buzzing and planning parties in every neighborhood and bar(not just sports bars). I really feel it’s a major drop of the ball to not do everything possible to plaster everywhere this amazing product we have coming up this upcoming Saturday.

    • ceylon mooney

      ward lost the first one. i saw it. judges fucked kovalev.

      why retire? he looked shot, done, finished. he may not be, but he may have hit his expiration date, and a lot of folks seein that. i get it. and look im not one of those guys who yells exposed or fraud or hang it up after a decistating loss or nasty beating. lotta those
      folks out there. us hardcore fans rarely miss an opportunity to overreact, right?

      man im not surprised. the business of boxin sucks, especially at informing sports fans and the general public (the barrage of boxing flicks bein an exception). at least golovkin has been out in public some himself –think he threw opening pitch at a dodgers game.

      • Giuseppe

        i think choc could take a fight against Yafai in England. Get some of that UK monies and have a 50.50 shot at winning IF he is motivated.

        Ward – i think a lot of his weirdo fans (who may have migrated from supporting mayweather, i reckon) and deification he gets on HBO make him more unlikeable than he is in reality.

        • Juan Manuel Valverde

          I agree. He’s definitely not in the same league as Gervonta Davis, Mayweather or Broner.

          • Giuseppe

            ??

          • Juan Manuel Valverde

            I mean, he’s not an idiot like those guys

        • Stephen M

          Really? Gonzalez looked really terrible and you have to think he was totally motivated Saturday night.

          • Mauro Hermida

            His face didn’t show it at all. His body didn’t either. He was soft as hell. I saw a guy that didn’t get into physical and mental shape properly.

          • Stephen M

            Well, if that is the case it’s on him.

          • TMT NYC-DA REAL GHOSTBUSTERS

            He eats way too much chocolate between fights. Haha!

          • Giuseppe

            i wonder if the death of his coach simply, in his mind, was the end of his boxing career in his mind.

          • Stephen M

            I guess anything is possible. He sure didn’t look like he wanted to be there.

          • Mike Prado

            Did anyone else think that, after the first knockdown, it looked as if Chocolatito just dove in head first, knowing full well what would probably happen? It was a serious KD and he was not careful at all after he got up. Considering later the death of his trainer, and how he looked pre-fight, I don’t know.

            While he was lying on his back, I thought of Mickey Rourke leaping from the top ropes.

        • ceylon mooney

          oh man, thatd be cool.

          ward-still one of my favorite fighters. he won the kovalev rematch like a dirty-fightin boss.

          • Giuseppe

            a final boss. not one of those mid-level streets of rage / final fight hoodlums.

          • ceylon mooney

            yup

        • Arjay Cee

          I don’t mind Andre’s commentary on HBO, but it isn’t compelling. If HBO can’t tell that the sparkle goes out of its broadcasts when Roy isn’t there, then they’ll continue to bleed viewers.

          • I agree 100%. Roy’s commentary isn’t as controlled and refined as Ward’s but there’s more passion AND insight.

          • ceylon mooney

            sos teddy atlas. hes like the sarah palin of live fight commentary.

          • Koninbeor

            Atlas is definitely very passionate in his commentary. Can’t stand the guy but he definitely puts his heart into it.

          • ceylon mooney

            i always felt that way, but man, you catch him babbling nonsense at crawford-indongo? i thought he was wasted.

          • Koninbeor

            Oh, I’m just being nice. I’d listen to someone who can’t speak English over Teddy, just giving him props for being passionate.

          • disqus_EewaFe3EB6

            and he can crack you up sometimes

          • JA

            Ward announces like he boxes; carefully, measured, with the absence of any enthusiasm. The only difference is he doesn’t hug Max while punching Lampley in the jewels. Well, he probably does hug Max…

          • Koninbeor

            I couldn’t stand Roy’s commentary for years despite him being one of my all-time favorite fighters. He’s sure come a long way. I can’t think of a single expert commentator I prefer over him now.

          • Mike Prado

            Thank you! Absolutely, I was totally thinking that during the Cuadras-Estrada matchup. Not that Ward was saying anything wrong; he had really good points and he’s very articulate. But you can’t have three Martins, you gotta have a Lewis in there.

            I’ll take Jones’ ring savviness and passion any day of the week.

          • Arjay Cee

            “But you can’t have three Martins, you gotta have a Lewis in there.”

            Great line, Mike.

          • Mauro Hermida

            Do you remember how much ass kissing ward did in his commentary for the Chavez Vera fight? He was hoping to get on that money train and did all he could to give Chavez props, when it was clear Vera was winning the fight and smacking him around. He is an ass hat.

      • Larry Connor

        To be honest, I felt Ward lost the first fight by one point, but I could also see how he got the decision as well. It was a very close fight. The second fight wasn’t even close in my book.

        I just feel that Golden Boy could have done a waaayyy better job of pushing this fight to the masses.

        • ceylon mooney

          i saw the fight as close but still a clear loss for ward.

          • Larry Connor

            I didn’t see the fight as a clear loss for Ward. I saw it as a one point loss, but I could see it either way. The second fight confirmed that Ward is the better fighter.

          • Koninbeor

            The stoppage was premature but Kovalev lost that fight before he got into the ring. Ward broke him the first time around and he had Krusher’s number. One way or another, that one was ending in a KO. Probably better for Kovalev that it was stopped before he ended up on his back.

          • Larry Connor

            I totally agree with your assessment.

    • Nixtradamus

      Fact is Canelo is not a true superstar himself (like Floyd, Tyson, Pacquiao or DelaHoya, for example). He is more like Marquez or Barrera (great fighters, but not very well known by casual fans) and is facing a guy virtually unknown outside boxing circles. It’s a tough task…

      • Larry Connor

        You are correct, tough task, but not an impossible task. Both of these guys are bonafide stars. Ggg sold out the Garden in a matter of minutes! Canelo is well known in two countries with a huge boxing following. A match up we have been demanding. I hate asking who do you have winning the fight on the 16th and get hit with the, ” What fight or who’s fighting response”. It kills me. Yet these same casuals knew every detail of the May/McGregor fight weeks before it arrived smh. We have to many excuses for every time that we drop the ball.

      • Juan Manuel Valverde

        not a true superstar? Certainly not in the US. In Mexico there hasn’t been a guy like him since Chavez. Marquez, Barrera and Morales wish they had the publicity and media backing that Canelo has. He is easily the most famous sporting figure in the country this side of Chicharito. He’s definitely one of the biggest boxing superstars ever in Mexico.

        • Nixtradamus

          I don’t doubt people in Mexico love Canelo and he is a superstar to them. However, that does not mean shit for the purpose of PPV numbers or selling the fight to audiences that will shell out $70 or whatever the price is for this fight. We were not taking about Mexico.

          Canelo is a star, yes, but definitely not in the DelaHoya, Pacquiao, Mayweather, Tyson, etc. level. That’s superstar territory.

          • Juan Manuel Valverde

            The US is not the only country in the world my friend, specially today when Boxing isn’t as big as it once was. You dont know the amount of money Canelo generates in Mexico. Fox Sports bought the Mayweather McGregor fight and showed it for free in Mexico because the amount of money made by ads makes sense. There’s actually a bigger spending market in that country for boxing than the US today. So dont understimate that. Yes, De La Hoya, Tyson, Mayweather and Pacquiao are more popular than Canelo, but out of those four De La Hoya and Pacquiao performed very similar to Canelo on PPV numbers. Canelo’s fight vs Mayweather did as much or more PPV’s than De La Hoya. Only Pacquiao can claim bigger numbers. Check de La Hoya’s numbers vs nobodies, he barely hit 400-500k.

          • Larry Connor

            True story

          • Juan Manuel Valverde

            By the way Im mexican and have lived in both countries. I dont like Canelo at all, but to say he’s not loved in Mexico would be stupid, blind and biased on my part. He is bigger than ever right now and most people think he’ll have an easy time with GGG (thats the kind of bias that exists right now thanks to TV azteca scoring the jacobs fight 9-3 in his favor).

          • ceylon mooney

            all the mexican folks i asked said he was gonna beat mayweather

          • Juan Manuel Valverde

            There’s a guy who said it wasn’t even close that Canelo will stop GGG inside 5 rounds. He was super confident of that. I was: what?

          • ceylon mooney

            ah, im sure plenty a folks sayin that, but i come across plenty a mexicans who aint too hot on him. i get the impression he aint universally respected.

          • Juan Manuel Valverde

            Like any superstar there are people that dislike him

          • ceylon mooney

            well, sure.

            what im gettin at is–of course youd know better than i–that he aint seen like a chavez, lopez, sanchez or marquez in that way.

          • Larry Connor

            I had Jacobs up by one fight in the ggg fight

          • Juan Manuel Valverde

            And thats a good score. It was close. TV Azteca had it 9-3. 116-111. Thats not even close.

          • Larry Connor

            Yes that’s to wide of a margin. Jacobs started the fight out real timid.

          • Luis Rivera

            “most people think he’ll have an easy time with GGG” really Juan people are that fool in Mexico. Because I see Canelo hitting the floor harder than Chocolatito.

          • Juan Manuel Valverde

            Well, Yes and No. people here actually thought McGregor would ko floyd inside 4 rounds. In other words there are idiots everywhere.

          • Mauro Hermida

            Finally got a chance to see the last couple rounds of Floyd and Mcgregor and all I could think was Floyd should stay retired. He must really thought nothing of Connor because he was there to be countered. He did lots of reaching and looked sloppy. Not to mention, his reflexes and speed look gone.

      • Juan Manuel Valverde

        Now GGG, well that’s a different story, he sells tickets not ppv’s and he hasn’t crossed over in latin america or usa, some media members would like you to believe that’s the case, but really, he’s nowhere close to Joshua, Klitschko, Canelo, Pacquiao, Mayweather and Cotto, the true superstars of the sport.

        • ceylon mooney

          hes big in mexico

          the mexicans in the US dig him

    • disqus_EewaFe3EB6

      Doug can’t stand Ward, there’s nothing to do about it and we should all accept that at this point. To me AW won a very narrow decision that could’ve gone easily the other way, gave immediate rematch (had to) and took care of business in the rubber match like a champ does. All that’s controversial in that win is the stoppage being arguably a little early.

      To me Choc has to retire though, not so much because of the back to back losses, but because of the beatings he took in his last three fights. On Saturday he looked like a guy who had no fight in himself anymore

      • Larry Connor

        I can go with that reasoning concerning little G. He does take a lot of punishment. Wish he would have developed some head movement. It would have extended his career.

        Yeah, I get that sense that old Doug can’t stand Ward as well. Why, I don’t know. At the end of the day Ward goes in and does his job inside the ring and being a model citizen outside of the ring. Who knows, maybe it’s something personal that is guys outside of the loop do not know about lol

        • disqus_EewaFe3EB6

          yup. GGG state of mind is a bit concerning tbh. It’s the third camp in a row where abel sanchez is going “oh this time gennady is dialed in, won’t stop talking about the fight, yada yada yada. Last time he didn’t fight at his best because he didn’t care about the fight”. It sounds to me that he’s growing tired of fighting in general.

          • Giuseppe

            i think that may be true. you can’t fake boxing.

          • Larry Connor

            Sounds to me like now that the completion level is increasing. They are starting to become concerned that the gravy train maybe over

        • Juan Manuel Valverde

          Easy, because Ward has been an a-hole with the media for a long time. Imagine this: You set up a date to go to a press conference, promoters buy and pay for this, set up a venue, all media comes in and then Ward decides not to come. Those are the type of things that would get people to dislike someone. He’s odd, he doesn’t sound like a bad guy in those 24/7’s or even when he’s a commentator, he just hates the media, and when you hate and treat the media bad, you’ll get bad press.

          • Larry Connor

            Well if your reasoning is the reason Doug hates ward( that’s if Doug actually hated Ward or not). That’s a bs reason. He didn’t show up to a press Confrence.

          • Juan Manuel Valverde

            No, thats one example. He treats the media that way and from what I’ve heard there’s more incidents like that. Look, from what I’ve heard he doesn’t like criticism (who does?) and doesn’t take it well. If he doesn’t like it then he’s in the wrong profession. There’s going to be moments when you’re praised and moments when your critics will eat you alive. He needs to man up and show a poker face. His response has always been negative and guess what? When your an a-hole with the people who write about you and cover you guess whats going to happen?

          • Larry Connor

            Again if that’s Doug reasoning for hating Ward “because if his disdain for the press” then that sounds more personal than anything else. I’ve never heard about the horror stories concerning Ward and his on going War with the press, but I guess everyone can find a reason to be mad at anyone.

          • Juan Manuel Valverde

            Again Im not saying this on behalf of Doug, I dont even think he hates him, Im just saying that the common denominator is that Ward seems to grt bad press and most say that hes an ahole. Thats it

          • disqus_EewaFe3EB6

            i don’t know about that. He’s very open to the fans, gives good interviews, works in the media himself. He gets some pretty good press almost everywhere.
            You have to consider that generally boxers are not really easy to get along with too: they’re extremely proud individuals, often moody and surly, never like to be contradicted, especially leading up to fights.
            Doug clearly can’t stand the guy, but I think it’s more of an ongoing battle against “stinkers” or nullifiers, or defensive boxers in general. A category that Ward personifies. I don’t think he’s got a personal problem with Ward. Doug had some serious beef with b-hop, but never took that personally on the media

          • Ciscostudent561

            HAHA Doug loved Bhop and glamorized his style which is even more of a stinker then Wards! Get out!

          • Reggie Woodard

            Disqus_ is right… Doug and BHop were at serious odds around 12 or so years ago. If my memory serves me correctly, Dougie won a lawsuit against BHop for slander. They’re good now and have been for awhile.

          • disqus_EewaFe3EB6

            did he glamorized his style? that would be outrageous! b-hop’s the yoda of stinkers

          • Ciscostudent561

            yup, he’d bury Ward’s style which is actually alot more aesthetically pleasing in my opinion with the same mouth he’d praise bhop who was a totally clinchfest stinker…

          • Juan Manuel Valverde

            Thats definitely not true, most boxers are easy to get along. I’ve found over the years that boxers are among the most humble, friendly sports figures on the planet. I think what happened is that Ward didn’t take criticism about his lawsuit with Goosen that well and thats when the backlash began. Again, as I told you, i’ve heard from several people that the guy is simply rude and an a-hole with certain members of the media who simply didn’t roll over and said yes to everything he had to say. He has to man up and accept the good as well as the bad.

          • disqus_EewaFe3EB6

            I’m sorry i’ve explained myself rather badly. Boxers are super humble and easy going, but there are certain subjects you usually shouldn’t bring up, i.e. controversies, losses, that time he got whopped in sparring etc etc. Ward is no different

          • Juan Manuel Valverde

            Ok I get that

          • Reggie Woodard

            Boxers are far and away the most humble, appreciative, and easiest to approach of sports stars.. I’ve witnessed fighters moody during fight week but that could be attributed to focus and being on weight.
            I think Dre is just an extremely proud guy and there seems to be a residual effect from the lawsuit(all the press coupled with his inactivity during that legal battle with Goosen) that makes him appear standoffish and dismissive at times.

          • disqus_EewaFe3EB6

            Boxers are super easy going as long as you don’t bring up certain subjects (at least in my experience). All of those I know personally are super humble, and nice people. But you don’t bring up losses, or say they got a gift decision. Hell, I met Hagler here in milan, he’s still salty about the SRL loss!

          • Reggie Woodard

            Hahaha, true man… I brought up Nicolai Valuev(sp?) to Holyfield in Vegas and although I told him I thought he won easily, he still kind of just muttered.
            I don’t believe Hagler will ever get over that one man 😉

          • Charlie U.

            Have not heard of him treating the media bad at all. Roc Nation yes, but I haven’t heard of Andre being that way.

          • Larry Connor

            I have not either, but I guess some guys have secret sources to secret news. Lol

          • Nixtradamus

            Ward’s sin is probably not giving Doug Fischer some money under the table.

          • Nixtradamus

            Great answer, Larry!

          • Mauro Hermida

            I agree = great answer. I disagree = you don’t know shit.

      • Joe Steed III

        It has to be painful to have Doug’s position on AW. The man ain’t taking no Ls.

    • Sidewinder

      First. I really have no issues with Ward, let him be with his life.

      Second. Agree with you why retire?
      All time greats dont get derailed from those kinds of defeats. Bounce back and go on. Choc definitely needs a good advice from Roy Jones.

      Third. Regarding the Canelo-GGG promotion Nixtradamus said it. It’s sad but definitely true.

    • Orca

      Considering the far too long careers some modern greats have had, I think he Gonzalez should be actively encourage too retire. That just wasn’t the same man.

      • Larry Connor

        To a certain degree I agree, but on the flip side, he could have just had a bad night also

    • Juan Manuel Valverde

      I agree that Ward made it clear that he was the winner of that fight in the rematch. The first fight was a toss up. Even though I thought Kovalev won, my brother who was watching with me saw Ward win, he stated that body shots won some rounds, so I can’t say it was a robbery. It was a close close fight. That’s that, lets move on.

      I think, at least in my area, that there’s good marketing for the fight, not enough though. They’re again ignoring the main stream media, that’s what gets you new fans and puts the ppv numbers over the top.

      • Larry Connor

        I totally agree on both of your points.

      • Mauro Hermida

        Ward definitely made it clear that he like hitting Kovalev’s balls, that’s for sure.

        • Juan Manuel Valverde

          True

  • learnmore

    Hopefully the SuperFy card did good ratings & HBO persist with these fighters. Estrada promoter has Berchelt & Nery. Especially Nery because Inoue was talking about moving up in his post press conference. I think making Srisaket v Estrada at the Stubhub is a no brainer.

  • Kudos

    Hbo sucking Ward off throughout was insufferable, Kellerman should do a reverse Michael Jackson and bleach his skin black.

    • Larry Connor

      You lost me. Why should Kellerman bleach his skin black?

      • disqus_EewaFe3EB6

        cause kudos is a tad racist

      • Kudos

        I get the impression he wants to be black.

        • Larry Connor

          I’ve never seen that in Kellerman. You have any examples?

          • Kudos

            His opinions on first take, his love of ‘slicksters’ his rap video. To name a few.

          • Larry Connor

            Hip hop is universal. What is “slicksters”??

          • Kudos

            Not everyone who listens to hip hop acts like a black. That doesn’t include Kellerman. Slicksters= urban fighters.

          • Larry Connor

            Well you said rap video in reference to your reasoning of why you feel Kellerman wants to be black.

            Slicksters” you mean ” hit and not get hit” style?

            How do blacks act? I didn’t know there was some type of way you have to act in order to be “black”.

    • Left Hook2

      OMG. How many times did we have to hear about that ball-punching win over Kovalev like it was in the same classic category as Tyson’s left hook-uppercut on Bruno? Yeah, that was sick.

      • Kudos

        I don’t have an issue with Wards work as an analyst. However when he’s there Max and Jim insert Ward references far too often. It was clear in the Kovalev rematch that HBO where all in for ‘Dre’

        • Left Hook2

          I do think Ward is a good commentator. And yes, they have to throw him softballs…wait…did I just use a pun? Anyway, they should reference any fight other than the Kovalev debacles.

        • Joe Steed III

          Well they were all in for Kovalev the first fight so what’s the problem?? You dudes is funny man.

          • Kudos

            All in because he was winning.

    • JV316

      sup kathy! put down the pinot! i think this is the 7th or 8th time you’ve mentioned sucking ward off, what are you thinking about 😉

  • learnmore

    Being bluntly honest I’m not sure HBO is invested in boxing anymore, they’ve had 11 boxing events in 2017 so far, they’ve 2 scheduled in September GGG v Canelo & Linares v Campbell, they just announced Kovalev v Shabranskyy in November, nothing for October,probably get a few schedule for December. The number of HBO boxing events for the year will be down on even the last few years which was usually around 20 HBOboxing shows for the year. I think we might have to wait until 2018 to see if HBO will feature Berchelt, Nery, Estrada, Inoue, Srisket. Peter Nelson still thinking how to replace the Top Rank fighters

  • Nixtradamus

    Fact: Chcolatito has a fake record that includes repeated fights against the same guys, sometimes under different names to make it appear like it’s different boxers he was facing.

    Fact: Chocolatito was fighting a guy with 29 losses as recently as 2015, to pad his resume in order to sell the hype job to the american public.

    Fact: by 2012, Chocolatito had 35 fight against total bums, except for Estrada. Most of those fights were knockouts against guys with terrible records. Most of his opponents had lopsided losing records.

    Fact: Chocolatito is a good boxer, but there is nothing in his resume to justify P4P status, let alone #1 ranking, with so many legitimate fighters around with legitimate resumes.

    Fact: Chocolatito went life and death with every decent fighter he encountered – and he only faced 3 his entire career: Estrada, Cuadras and Wangek. He lost 2 of those four fights.

    Fact: a close examination of his fighting record and opponents debunks the theory that he should retire because “he took too many blows during a great career”. False: he spent most of his time on *super easy* fights against total bums who couldn’t possibly hurt him. His problem is alcohol and tremendous weight gains in between fights.

    Fact: Chocolatito’s *legendary* status is an HBO hype job, the same way HBO built up Nonito Donaire in hopes he would be Pacquiao’s successor as a superstar under the network’s control. Nowadays, it’s Lomachenko – who is being touted as invincible and all time great in spite of not facing any decent fighters and losing to *legendary* Orlando Salido.

    Fact: the hysterical reaction by those who drank the Chocolatito koolaid is ridiculous. He got knocked out by a better fighter. That’s all. He was good, but not nearly as good as advertised. What about proving his *greatness* by asking for a rematch? Because those deluded fans realize this is not a fluke knockout: Chocolatito is not as good as they pretend to believe. Even Lampley – the hype master – wants the guy to retire!

    Fact: yes, Chocolatito is a good boxer. He is just not good enough (and never was) for top-10 P4P status, let alone #1. It was an HBO hype job and the house and mirrors have collapsed.

    • Giuseppe

      Fact: what?

      • Nixtradamus

        Fact: he fought Francisco Meza 3 times, once under the fake name *Roberto Meza*. He fought Francisco Rosas twice (and was gifted a majority decision in one of the fights). He fought *Oscar* and *Javier* Murillo twice. He fought *Juand Francisco* and *David* Centeno 3 times (*David* promptly retired with a 0-3 record with the three losses by knockout. One of the other losses was to Carlos Rueda – see a pattern here? lol).

        • Giuseppe

          Fact: relax

          • Nixtradamus

            Fact: totally relaxed watching gullible fans twist themselves into a pretzel trying to explain away their hero’s collapse. 😉

          • Giuseppe

            and that’s a fact brudda.

          • Teddy Reynoso

            Wtf? You know we should be celebrating the rise of a new boxing star in Wangek. But all we are reading are excuses for Roman and rave for Estrada and Inoue who beat foes lesser than Wangek faced that same night! Wtf???
            !

          • Giuseppe

            i really like Wangek truth be told. gotta respect someone like that who just has shown incredible mettle in and out of the ring. Respect x 1000.

            did anyone else raise an eybrow at Cuadras’ bacne?

          • Koninbeor

            That’s one of the first things I noticed. I figured it was coincidence since Estrada was the heavier of the two on fight night.

            I was pulling for Estrada the moment HBO started talking about Cuadras having “more upside.” Why, because he has a fauxhawk? I was wrong about the outcome, though. I figured Estrada would KO him late.

          • Teddy Reynoso

            I like that. This site is sounding more and more like a cacophony of excuses and justifications for Gonzales. A requiem for a fallen erstwhile adored fighter who was once rated as high as number one pound for pound in the planet.

          • Mauro Hermida

            You honestly think Roman was in peak form? You seem to know a good amount of boxing as evidenced by your points in previous posts, but you have got the Asian koolaid glasses on. Most fans know of good fighters from all over the world and are giving the thai his respect(deservedly so), but that doesn’t change the fact that Roman did beat the Wangek in his last fight and looked like crap in this one. I mean, cmon, he took SR’s punches for 12 without looking the worse for wear. The worst thing he exp in that fight was the headbutts. But, that had a lasting effect on him and he looked done in their rematch. It happens to the best of them.

          • FLOMATARD

            Made my day lmao

    • Mark Schoeman

      Dwight from The Office, is that you?….

      • Koninbeor

        Fact: Bears eat beets.

    • Left Hook2

      Fact: Somebody must have missed his 4 titles in 4 divisions.
      Fact: The talent pool in lighter weights is less than in higher weights, so it is more difficult to fight ‘greats’ each time out, but he fought the best available.
      Fact: It is better to fight ‘bums’ and stay active and get paid than to be a PBC fighter and fight what, once a year?
      Fact: P4P is as much an eye test as it is ‘resume’. Two-fisted attacks are much more impressive than lunge-and-clutch-and-headbutt-and-repeat.
      Fact: Loosen up.

      • Nixtradamus

        Fact: Adrian Broner has four titles in 4 divisions, too!

        Fact: Deal with the truth. Boxing is so corrupt because most fans are really dumb and believe all the shit they are fed by networks and promoters.

        • Mark Schoeman

          Your last “fact” negates your ENTIRE argument. Boxing isn’t corrupt, it’s just a business where the sole goal is to create box office draws and as such there are few, if any, fighters in history whose “resumes” can’t be nitpicked to death….which is why boxing doesn’t exist on paper, it exists on film, meaning you trust your eyes.

          So Roman fought guys with bad records….others fought guys with padded records. There’s no difference other than the strength of the promoters/networks you deride. So Roman lacked that backing and had to take any fight he could get…Christ, he had to move to Japan (not exactly the most egalitarian culture with regard to non-Japanese….) to get fights and you’re acting as though he was carefully managed? Seriously?….while another contemporary was fed no hopers, guys with padded resumes versus no-hopers, faded/smaller stars, etc. Your resume obsession creates a standard that makes every fighter average. You’re obsessed with the 35 no-hopers, ignoring the 15 world beaters. What fighter can’t be called out by that cherry picking history?

          Which is why you trust your eyes based on the talent you see versus the talent faced and recognize that you’re rendering an OPINION, NOT A FACT. You’re unimpressed by Roman, I’m impressed….now pick a guy you’re impressed by and maybe I’m not. That’s a difference of OPINION….but if you insist, I’ll make the paper argument and pretend it’s factual proof.

          • Left Hook2

            I wish I had read your reply before I posted my meager comeback. Very well stated, sir.

          • Royal Flashy

            Fact.

          • Nixtradamus

            Fact: Chocolatito did not fight “35 bums and 15 world-beaters” as you claim. He fought like 45 bums and 3 solid boxers: Cuadras, Wangek and Estrada. He lost 2 of those four fights.

            That is not #1 P4P material. That is a good boxer’s resume. And that’s what Chocolatito is: a good boxer; a good, entertaining fighter.

            So, no, he was never as good as HBO claimed and gullible fans believed. It was a hype job – with a striking similarity to the one HBO did on Nonito Donaire.

          • Fact: You’re too stupid to even interpret a record on boxrec.com. The FACT that you think Estrada was the first badass Chocolatito faced lets anyone who REALLY understands and follows boxing know that you’re a willfully ignorant moron.

          • Nixtradamus

            You’re just a liar, trying to convince the world that Chocolatito was something he is not. Retarded slave – you are doomed to be nothing more than a mouthpiece for corrupt promoters.

          • Ciscostudent561

            ” you are doomed to be nothing more than a mouthpiece for corrupt promoters.”
            WREKT HAHAHAH. cold.

          • Joe Steed III

            Fact. You a Andre Ward hater and you continue to look like a woman scorned and a clown by showing your obvious distaste for him. Doug you for some real self hate issues dog. How you describe the man as mulatto in a negative connotation when you are literally a mulatto yourself?? Therapy my guy…

          • Giuseppe

            OPINION: i agree.

          • Joe Steed III

            You gentleman should be the last to talk about facts and opinions on here considering you all see your own opinions as fact. i.e. Kovalev won the first fight … Yeah fact you all take yourselves too serious.

          • Giuseppe

            i can’t really follow the line of your argument, mate.

          • Orca

            Too much sense! You will make their heads implode.

          • D Johnson

            Thank you, that needed to be said.👍

          • Luis Rivera

            “Boxing isn’t corrupt” No shit!! Really?

        • Left Hook2

          Fact: Chocolotito fought the best in those 4 divisions. Broner? not so much. But good rebuttal!
          Fact: Boxing is corrupt. Most fans are not that dumb. They only see what is shown on TV. If it is quality, it is quality.
          Fact: What I loved about the card Saturday is that we got to see ‘the best’ in one weight class so we could make better comparisons. Much easier than on separate telecasts or slow-streaming Youtube.

        • Orca

          There is corruption in boxing but your theory that us fans have been ‘lied to’ by an agenda pushing HBO regard to who p4p number is (oh no!) …….well, that is way down the list. Chill man. No matter what you say, Gonzalez will walk into the Hall of Fame and deservedly so.

        • Fact: You’re still a total moron.

    • disqus_EewaFe3EB6

      wasting your time, everybody already jumped ship. We’re cruising with inoue now

      • Nixtradamus

        Lol…yep. Lampley was planting the seeds on Saturday.

        • disqus_EewaFe3EB6

          he’s a MONSTER!!! except, yeah, he keeps his chin up when punching and he beat like four guys

      • Luis Rivera

        See Nixtradamus is right to a large extend. Rungvisai KOs cold a fighter at the top of the pound per pound list which many consider a future hall of famer and much credit goes to Inoue who we don’t really know and was just fighting a bank employee who he couldn’t quite put away. If chocolatito is that good why these “hard core” boxing fans are not recognizing Rungvisai as the man to beat. Will Rungvisai be elevated to the lb per lb for icing a top lb per lb member? (just like Mickey Garcia was for outpointing the trashed post Maidana version of Broner).

    • Orca

      I think some little person hurt you at some point in your life. Did you lose a girl to a small dude?

    • Ain’t no dinos in Holy books

      Fact: Emmanuel Burton was 22,16,4 when he gave a prime Mayweather a damn good tussle. Using fighter’s statistical records as the primary means of assesing them is lazy and ignorant.
      Fact: Gonzalez defeated legit world rated opposition over 4 weight classes spanning 9 years. His first legit loss came saturday night to a bigger, stronger, fresher world class opponent.
      Fact: Roman has established himself as the best sub 122lb fighter of the past 16 years.

      • Nixtradamus

        Fact: comparing Mayweather’s resume to Chocolatito is beyond silly…lol…but just in case, here’s the fight highlights:

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dr2cNU5Y9l4

        Mayweather in the pocket doing what a #1 P4P does: take care – by knockout – of an opponent who came to fight. Chocolatito? He gets knocked out.

      • Teddy Reynoso

        You sounded like you knew Roman from Adam. That you have followed his career from his pro debut? Let’s not kid ourselves here. Most of us heard of Gonzales just 3 or 4 years ago and were enthralled by his qualities. But some people in their attempt to spite Mayweather Jr and Ward jettisoned him to the top without fully testing him against the best that Asia, the true powerhouse of the lighter weight classes can offer. True Gonzales has faced and beaten a few Asians on his way up but the region has a lot more that are just waiting to be discovered by Americans. Like Wangek.

        • Ciscostudent561

          Thank you!
          “But some people in their attempt to spite Mayweather Jr and Ward jettisoned him to the top without fully testing him against the best that Asia, ”
          So true, took the words outta my mouth.

        • Ain’t no dinos in Holy books

          I’ve followed Gonzalez since early in his straw-weight reign.
          Finito Lopez introduced me to that division and I’ve kept an eye on it ever since.
          And yes, I do feel Roman had the skill level and credentials to justifiably rise to the top of the pound for pound heap AFTER Floyd’s retirement in Sep ’15.
          I’m not sure how that ranking could spite a retired fighter but there you go.

          As for Ward, until he beat Kovalev with a masterclass in tactical fouling a few months ago, he hadn’t legitimately beaten anyone of note since Froch in 2011. Rather spurious pound for pound credentials I fear.

    • Ciscostudent561

      Chocolatitio was a great fighter with a fan friendly style, however he was not a the p4p no1 Hbo made him to be. Love the guy, he’s well accomplished. Hall of famer for sure.

    • Larry Connor

      Wow!! I didn’t know that. Good info

    • Fact: You’re a total moron.

      • Nixtradamus

        Fact: you’re a modern-day slave, a liar who puts food on the table by kissing ass and compromising his integrity all day long. Have no respect for people like you.

  • Sweet Nothing

    The only thing I resent about the card this past Saturday is that I didn’t see more of Gonzalez’s career earlier on. Yes, the little guys don’t get as much exposure or bring as much star power but hopefully this card was a heads up to the networks and we see more of the come up in big fights. As I said on Twitter, I won’t hate if Choco makes one more run at 112, after a long, long period of recovery and resolve. If he can bounce back and make a more graceful exit, he’ll have surpassed his mentor Alexis…otherwise I feel like the comparisons will never end.

    Inoue is a beast, but he’s too wide open for my liking, maybe because he hasn’t even needed to bring out his A-game? Let’s see him will a tougher opponent in the next fight, I want to see him tested further before I consider him the truth.

    Sor Rungvisai – shades of Manny Pacquiao for real, with a southpaw style to boot. What he lacks in speed, he’s makes up for in real power, and durability (or was Gonzalez just too small?). The only way he can make a bigger footprint in boxing beyond the hardcore fans is if he were to be coupled with a U.S. trainer, like Freddie Roach (I mean that’s the easiest pick), and placed on the undercard of a big promoter. I’m surprised Top Rank and Golden Boy aren’t considering this. Props to him and I hope he has more time on the premium networks to provide more fireworks.

    • Teddy Reynoso

      Sor Rungvusai is okay as he is. Don’t ruin him with Roach as coach and fights on US networks. Pacquiao is an extremely rare breed who can adapt and thrive anywhere.

      • Sweet Nothing

        Um…ok? To each their own.

      • Sweet Nothing

        Ok, now that I’m not on the road, I’m going to give you a full answer. First of all, why is Pacquiao even mentioned right now?? If you think Freddie and fights on U.S. soil ruined Pacquiao, you are EXTREMELY ignorant. Get off his balls. The 2 factors that ruined Pacquiao’s career and shortened his prime are politics and religion. Everyone in the Philippines wants a cut, and will take advantage of his character to do it. Had to say it.

        In the mailbag, Dougie argued that Rungvisai chances at boxing stardom are minimal, and I gave a legitimate argument on how he could achieve stardom IN THE U.S. We know he’s a star in Thailand and most likely Asia, but we’re talking on a U.S. website. At most, he’ll be a Thai/Asian celebrity, that transcends the sport in that region, and of course he’ll be making good money, I’m sure he’s living well. More power to him, but to transcend the sport and really be a worldwide star, I’m pretty sure that exposure on U.S. cards along with more familiar names would help. Bless you man, I mean no harm but you got me heated.

        • Teddy Reynoso

          Look before you leap. I never said Roach and US fights ruined Pacquiao. On the contrary Roach and America made Manny. But Manny I would like to repeat is an extreme special breed who can adapt and thrive. That is why he transcended boxing in Asia to the rest of the world. That’s why I brought his name up in the first place. Yet he was still largely ignored in the US at first even after his incredible first beating of then American boxing toast MA Barrera.

          • Sweet Nothing

            You are still the ignorant one in that you still think Pacman would be where he is today no matter who his team was.

            You’re telling me that if Manny was not introduced to Freddie Roach, he still would’ve transcended Asia and boxing? You’re giving too much credit to the student vs. the teacher. What Kool-aid are you and Michael Koncz drinking? Without Roach, Pacman’s career would be a very fun but wayyyyyy shorter version of Roy Jones Jr. Amazing talent that gets ultimately gets starched by a hungrier more hard-working fighter.

            Manny is a special talent, but without the right team you don’t go anywhere. Freddie rounded out Manny’s abilities and helped him evolve into a 2-handed fighter. Yes, Manny’s the only one in the ring, but he was molded physically, mentally and spiritually by his braintrust, which in his prime was Freddie Roach. Case in point, the moment he had his born-again Christian transition, along with jumping into politics, was the moment his prime sharply declined. Freddie said it truthfully, he can’t be an elite fighter if he’s not 100% dedicated to the sport. That’s not to say these changes were bad for him as a person, again, more power to him, and may he help the world be a better place.

            I’ve been following Pacquiao since winning the Flyweight title in the Sasakul fight, much before the MAB fight, and I when I saw the MAB fight live, I, along with everyone in that room acknowledged at that time that it was Pacman time. Not sure why you think he was largely ignored after that fight, that was his coming out party in the U.S., so you have a weak argument.

            No matter what route Sor Rungvisai takes, I’ll be following him. I’m pretty sure he’ll be on HBO again, he deserves to make bigger paydays moving forward.

  • william ellis

    There should be no doubt that Gonzalez was a great fighter. We can argue about the degree of his greatness, but that’s about it. His fights with Estrada, Cuadras, and Wisaksil (I) were exciting to watch, and featured fighters all of whom may have hall of fame careers.

    • Juan Manuel Valverde

      Agree

  • Left Hook2

    And since we neglected it in our letters to Doug:
    Benavides had his hands full with Gavril. scorecards: I don’t think Benavides won 10 rounds, but don’t think Gavril won 8 either. Wouldn’t mind seeing it again.
    How about that headbutt in Love vs Han? I’ve never seen a gash like that. Looked like a scene from Kill Bill. And how the hell did one judge have Love winning 7 of the 8 rounds?
    Gonzalez-too many hard fights in a row. Rungvisai definitely got better. Tough as nails and a huge KO % for that weight. Remember when Doug was profane enough before the first fight to say that this guy had a chance vs Chocolotito?
    Estrada-Cuadros–I had Cuadros winning by a point, but no complaints. If Estrada had lost, it would have been his own fault for giving away the first 4 rounds with inactivity.
    Monster-Nieves. Do you think Nieves’ urine no longer full of blood? He showed toughness, for sure.
    GGG-Canelo. Please don’t go to the scorecards. Please…

    • Dee Money

      Yeah I was hoping for more from Benavides, still very young so I kinda give him a pass, but was hoping for more.

  • Giuseppe

    Usyk v Jirov mythical matchup.

    I am really lookin forward to this saturday night’s bout. i am unable to watch it live but i will watch it as soon as is humanly possible.

    Something about Canelo looks RIGHT. My fake eyes tell me GGG is still at his best. But my REAL eyes tell me he has slipped a bit, even become a little muddled in his execution here and there. We will see the best GGG we can possibly see at this point. And it may be enough. But i have a feeling he won’t stop Canelo or knock him down. And if that happens, he won’t win on the cards IMO.

    Now let me contradict myself… GGG is the bigger puncher. I believe he has better in the ring strategy. and i believe he cannot be hurt by Canelo. He needs to put Canelo in toruble early to keep the fight at a reasonable distance and then raid Canelo at the right time. Jab, Jab, Jab with those big, heavy arms.

    • Left Hook2

      Usyk W12? I think he is just more athletic and can stay out of range.

      • Giuseppe

        usyk is one weird fighter. i think he wins too but Jirov was tough.

        • Left Hook2

          That he is. And we left that out of the mailbag too. The kickoff of the WSBB or whatever it is. Huck looked a step slow the entire bout.

          • Giuseppe

            he did, but actually better than i thought he would, overall. Usyk just has such weird limbs and movement for a cruiserweight.

  • Juan Manuel Valverde

    Just listened to an Interview with Chocolatito talking about his loss, he says that there is NO WAY he goes down to 112. If he fights again, and he says he’s considering retirement, he will definitely fight in 115.

    • He should retire. There’s no easy mark at 115. I was hoping he’d get the win last night and retire, but had he not been KO’d on Saturday, he likely would have been stopped by Estrada in their mandatory rematch, and if he somehow got past “Gallo,” The Monster would be waiting to pounce on his older, smaller, battle-worn ass.

      • Juan Manuel Valverde

        I think he lost a step and his reflexes are no longer the same. That added with the extra weight is not a good combination. Yet, I would still like to see him try to redeem himself.

  • Manuel Parra Garcia

    I think out of Estrada, Inoue and Rungvisai, Estrada would top them all. I have been following his career since the Azteca days and he has matured incredibly over the last 5 years and is not only technically gifted but a master at his craft.

    I was live at the stubhub and it was very apparent that Cuadras’ shots were barely touching Estrada because of his great hip movement, footwork and timing. Every time he hit Cuadras you could see Cuadras feeling it but not so the over way around.

    I rewatched the match yesterday and saw that Cuadras outjabbed Estrada but those jabs did not have too much steam in them because of the way Estrada slipped and blocked through them or moved just enough to not get hit hard by them.

    For Choco, all I can say is Thank you… he had an amazing run. I felt very sad Saturday after witnessing him on the mat and couldn’t help but think he was all but shot that day. From the get go he looked like he didn’t want to be there and looked like he got old over nighT. None of us know what happened in the weeks leading up to the fight and he is such a class act that he will never tell us. It almost seems like he felt obliged to fight for the 600K payday even though something looked off.

    Regardless he is a great fighter and Future HOF and I only hope if he does fight on, that he doesn’t become a stepping stone for the Inoues of the world

    Inoue, those body shots could be heard in the stubhub. I told my wife that the other guy would be pissing blood that night. Even though he hits like a goat’s kick, his technique is as not good and he left himself open. A prime Gonzalez (2 years ago) and today’s Estrada will bee too much for him as they would capitalize on those wide shots.

    Regardless what a show. I hope we get to see Estrada-Rungvisai and Cuadras-Inoue this year AND if it goes they way I think it will have a unification bout between Inoue and Estrada

    • ceylon mooney

      great recap. from my TV inoues shots sounded HUGE.

      still cant tell how good SSR would fare against estrada or inoue. would inoue be as vulnerable against a dude like SSR? if so id favor SSR. estrada looked great, and its just hard to imagine him losin to any of those guys. heda beat the brakes offa sat nights gonz.

    • Teddy Reynoso

      Not if the fights are held in Japan and Thailand. You must understand that the USA is not the center of boxing universe as far as Japanese and Thai superstar boxers are concerned since they are paid handsomely fighting at home and are devotedly adored by their multitudes of fans with lucrative commercial endorsements to boot.

      • Manuel Parra Garcia

        True, homecoming is a big thing in each country. That is why having 2 foreigners fight in the US is usually not a bad thing. You get less biased judging.

        Even in the USA, the US fighters get the benefit of the doubt against foreigners, just look at all the low blows AW got away with in his second fight against Kovalev and the decision he got in the first fight against Kovalev where the judges went to award on every single close round.

        I think in general officiating should include 2 foreign judges and one local one when the us fighter goes against a foreign fighter or when a foreign fighter goes against the home fighter in an abroad country, it is the only way to reduce the bias officiating.

        Again, if the fight is in US between Estrada and any of the others, with US judges I think Estrada has enough to win an unbiased officiated match.

        Then again this is boxing so if you don’t knock he other guy out you are left at the mercy of inept or corrupt judges

  • Chris Smith

    Love seeing Dougie go in on the social media troglodytes. Always amused me that Chocolatito was subject to hatred when he’s very exciting, fights often and always tough and is as entertaining as you could want. The lack of knowledge of those “fans” made them hate the guy instead of just watching the smaller guys fight and enjoying them.

    Estrada-Cuadras was a gem. I hope to god the Sor Rungvisai bout happens in Carson. I’ll get a ringside seat for that one.

    • ceylon mooney

      even some really knowledgable fans express some of the most outrageous opinions. i run into some gonzales hate on other forums but not this one.

  • Arjay Cee

    Enjoyed the debate at the track with Tom, Coach and JP, wisecracking savants all! The informality of these sessions is a nice counterpoint to the formal, experts-around-a-desk stuff (though there’s a place for that too).

    I’d like details on where to find the upcoming “periscope” with Coach — I don’t follow social media but I will in this case.

    And as all can see, the smart young Fischer is plainly a chip off the old block. 🙂

    • Thanks for the kind words, Arjay. If you follow me or Tom Loeffler (who is often at that track, along with Chris Van Heerden and other boxing folks) on Periscope, you can watch our little discussions (and arguments) live — and ask us questions, if you like.

  • Jander78

    What a great card of fights! The superflyweight division has a lot of great matchups to come. Put any of the fighter’s names from tonight in a hat, draw two and let’s see that fight!

    I’m a big fan of Choco, thought he won the first fight (still do), but have to give Rungvisai props. He left no doubt this time around. It was tough to see the Nicaraguan go down so hard.

    Should Chocolatito retire… I’ll leave that up to him and his team. He may have just had a bad night, or Rungvisai could just be his kryptonite. I just hope he’s okay and still has his wits to him after whatever he decides.

    Loved Dougie’s Ward rant. I don’t know if I can listen to Max and Ward on the same broadcast anymore. Their bro-mance is getting out of hand, and having to hear it throughout every HBO fight is vomit to my ears. My only comment and criticism of Ward is his P4P ranking. I don’t have him at #1. Top 10, sure, but I don’t see how anyone has him at the top after one great win (Kovalev 2) in the past four years.

    • Mauro Hermida

      How many times did Lampley have to mention Ward going to the body on Kovalev?? He should have mentioned how Wards low blow ball sack game was on point.

      • Luis Rivera

        Kovalev is a quitter end of the story. Quitted seating on the ropes.

  • Nixtradamus

    Modern-day slave Doug Fisher going bonkers over fans finally getting to see what a hype job Chocolatito’s status as #1 P4P was. He hates Ward, Mayweather and anyone else who doesn’t submit to his constant begging for freebies and transportation money.

    Dougie, professional liar that he is, can’t stand people who tell the truth: Chocolatito is a good fighter, just not #1 P4P.

    Now he has come to this thread to insult the knowledgeable boxing fans who don’t drink the Chocolatito Koolaid – and I love it!!!!

    Go ahead, Dougie, keep trying to coverr the sky with one finger, moron! Lol

    • IanF69

      I think those first 5 words in your sentence show’s your true self….a proper muppet.

      • Mauro Hermida

        He isn’t even a cool muppet, just one of the side muppets who no one paid attention to. If they did a muppet star trek, he would have been the extra sent to a planet with Kirk and Spock, who you knew was going to get eaten.

    • Mauro Hermida

      You are a fucking idiot and a slave to your stupidity bro.

    • FLOMATARD

      I get it, choco hardcore fan.

    • Stephen M

      Man, your making yourself look like a whiny child.

    • JA

      You do realize the whole concept of “P4P” is merely speculation and conjecture, right? You are about one step away from crying because someone said Batman can whip Superman. If a fighter fights often enough, long enough, and against the best fighters, eventually the odds are they will lose.

  • Ciscostudent561

    Who’s in your favorite fighters list? Boxers you’re most willing to see. Not the best, just your faves for whatever reason:
    Spence
    Charlo
    Mikey Garcia
    Inoue
    GGG
    Loma

    Fighters who’s fan bases make it difficult for me to root for them sometimes
    GGG
    Kov
    Loma

    Fighters who I hate to watch
    Porter
    Lara
    Hopkins (i know he’s retired but the hate is real)

    Fighters who I think don’t get enough respect
    sullivan barrera
    Badou Jack
    Jermall Charlo

    Fighters who I think get to much respect
    Canelo
    Loma (hasn’t fought anyone in the p4p list and ppl got him as p4p1)
    Thurman

    what are your lists?

    • ceylon mooney

      current/active?

      • Ciscostudent561

        active, sorry i did not make that clear, but feel free to hate on hopkins too.

        • ceylon mooney

          HAW HAW HAW! ah man sometimes but sometimes he was brilliant. i was rooting for him against joe smith jr, and i really smith

    • Black Oracle

      You think Thurman is overrated? I think people see him for what he is and may underrate him a bit.

      • Ciscostudent561

        some ppl got him in top ten p4p
        i dont think he’s even the 2nd best in his own division. He’s 3rd after Spence and Brook in my opinion. I can be wrong tho. I just don’t see him beating those two. He has legit wins over Porter and Garcia but I never had them ranked in the top 3 welters either.

        • ceylon mooney

          thurman is overrated, but i def see him beating brook. still, i never thought much of brook. really weak resume for the number of title defenses he had. he only beat one anna half contenders.

        • Orca

          I think Thurman Spence settles welter superiority, at least until Crawford knocks at the door.

        • Mauro Hermida

          Brook will be at 154 next fight, guarantee that. Thurman just doesn’t impress at all. In fact, he has gotten worse as his competition has gotten better. He cant knock anyone out anymore and in his fight against Garcia, both guys deserved at L for their shit performances.

    • Dee Money

      I get that I don’t hang out with too many boxing fans, but what are the GGG fans doing that make it hard for you to root for him?

      Honestly, it seems to me, like with any other fan base of a successful team/competitor. They start winning so people start trying to denounce them and put them down, those putting them down claim to just “be telling it like it is” or something of that nature but they invariably throw in insults and obviously overblown bias.
      In response, said fans respond with equal measure, and then are immediately denounced as being overly bias; soon these fans are hated on as ‘fan boys’ for doing nothing more then responding with equal measure.

  • Black Oracle

    Choco was a great fighter and should be a Hall of famer….First ballot? I don’t know maybe. But once again Dougie gets a fight prediction wrong. I don’t know why people respect his mythical matchup decisions.

    • Mauro Hermida

      Please state your fight predictions from here on out. I guarantee there will be plenty of wrong ones. The fact that you call yourself the oracle is laughable at best. When you get your next prediction wrong, guarantee you will disappear.

  • Left Hook2

    What time is the GGG-Canelo weigh in?

    • Luis Rivera

      When they find a weight scale big enough to weight Canelo.

  • Teddy Reynoso

    Wtf? We should be celebrating the rise of a new boxing star in Wangek. And all we are reading are litanies of excuses and justifications for Gonzales. The bias for American continental fighters and against Asian fighters is very evident here. Reminds of the disbelief following Pacquiao’s easy conquest of Mexican great and American darling Marco Antonio Barrera in 2004. It will not be after three more years and wins over Morales, the same Barrera, Marquez, Diaz and Oscar De la Hoya that America came to fully embrace Pacquiao, an Asian.

    • Ciscostudent561

      I don’t know if its Asian bias or lamenting that they have to legitimately crown Ward as p4p1 now.
      But I get your point, more excuses are being made for Choco then credit is being given to Wangek/SSR.
      -ppl are saying the weight difference was too drastic. GGG overcame that vs Jacobs.
      -ppl are talking about Roman being old, well SSR is about 30 as well
      -in the last fight, all you heard was gripes about SSR’s tactics, its funny how the gripes have turned into Roman just not being there mentality. Sorry that’s on him and his career, if he didn’t wanna be there dont take the rematch. Everytime a boxer steps in the ring, any sporting event period for that matter is a reflection of that athlete’s body of work, and Wangek delivered, Choco didnt.
      Idk about the Asian bias just yet, Inoue is getting a lot of love but you’re right- if he was in the Americas he’d prolly be a major hit with a better “managed” career

      • Teddy Reynoso

        You took my words out of my mouth. Thanks too! And that thing with the weight, Big deal! Roman I heard came in at 125 lbs for the fight.

      • Stephen M

        To me, it looked like when Jones got KOed by Tarver. Tarver never became a dominant fighter and a star. Wangek has to prove in his next fight that it wasn’t just Gonzales getting old.

        • Ciscostudent561

          No you can’t use the “old” excuses for two reasons.
          How does a guy go from p4p1 to old in 6 months? against a guy he went the distance with WHO’S THE SAME AGE? I don’t get the excuses, no Choco didn’t get old. He’s had a magnificent hall of fame career but he’s not p4p no1 like ya claimed him to be.

          • Stephen M

            What if ”old” is a fact? Have you considered that? Why did he get knocked out so easily by a guy he arguably beat in a distance fight? Getting old seems like a rational and logical explanation. What is your explanation? And don’t say it’s because he’s not p4p, that doesn’t explain anything.
            And, I never claimed or believed he should be p4p #1.

          • Ciscostudent561

            ok well then you’re speaking to the crowd.I’m only aiming my discussion when i say “ya” to the ones who gave him that crown. 30 is old, but it isn’t crippling. SSR is 30, and like i said you don’t age that much in 6 months. He got beat twice, and soundly the second time by a better, more devoted fighter that night.

          • Stephen M

            No two people age the same. My dad died at 63, the plumber I use on my jobs is 77 and strong as an ox. Two my eye Wangek looked the same and Gonzales looked disinterested, unfocused and overwhelmed. Do those three things equal old? I don’t know but Wangek looked the same as ever and he knocked Gonzales out…

          • Ciscostudent561

            “Gonzales looked disinterested, unfocused and overwhelmed”
            being disinterested and unfocused is on gonzales. No excuses, just like he said in his own video.
            I agree two ppl dont age the same but im saying in the context of 6 months.

          • Stephen M

            An excuse and an explanation are two different things. Wangek looked like the same Wangek, Gonzales did not look the same. There is no anti Asian bias in that statement. I’m just looking for an explanation for Gonzales’ non performance. I don’t find this particularly shocking or difficult to understand. And you know, they all loved Pacman, and then Chocolatito, and Loma and next it will be Inoue, so really, you are stretching it a bit if you are looking for some kind of bias or racism… At least I don’t see it.

          • Ciscostudent561

            Where did I bring up race? All I’m asking is to give SSR full credit. And my apologies sorry to hear about ur dad. I should’ve been a better listener. I know you brought him up to bring a point but it still was not compassionate of me to not send my regards.

          • Stephen M

            Don’t worry about it, no apologies necessary.

            You mentioned ”Asian bias” ( I’m guessing you meant anti Asian bias). You have race right there.
            I think Wangek will get the credit you think he deserves, if his next performance confirms that this one wasn’t a mirage.

          • Ciscostudent561

            On the Asian thing…I was responding to Teddy. If anything I was bringing his comments about it into doubt. I literally started off with “I don’t know if its Asian bias or lamenting that they have to legitimately crown Ward as p4p1 now.” And we’ll see.

    • Mauro Hermida

      Wangek is already 30 and lost to Cuadras. That is a reason he wasn’t on anyones radar. He clearly got beat by Gonzalez the first time out. I definitely understand the bias, its been like that for a while. But claiming people aren’t giving him props means you haven’t read the recent articles. Doug was on the Wangek train before the first Chocolatito fight. He knew the guy had the goods. That said, it would not surprise me if Estrada doesn’t beat him in the next fight and then everyone will forget about him again, because he will be back in Thailand.

    • Stephen M

      Well, honestly, it’s more about Gonzales because he looked like crap. He looked disinterested and listless. Gonzales ate a lot of punches last time and made it to the bell. This time he just collapsed. Yeah, so the story is Gonzales.

  • Ciscostudent561

    Today’s MM
    who ya got right now?

    Monster vs Wangek SSR (115)
    Mikey G vs Crawford 140
    Loma vs Mikey G 135
    Charlo vs GGG 160
    Khan Vs Porter 147
    Spence vs Garcia 147
    Barrera vs Jack 175

    I think these are all compelling matchups, wondering what you guys think of the outcomes?
    i got
    Crawford prolly wins but I’ll be rooting for Mikey
    I think Mikey beats loma here
    I think this is more even then ppl wanna admit. Slight edge to Charlo if his chin can take GGG
    I have no idea, I think Khan wins on points if he’s hungry
    Spence, but this might be a tougher matchup stylistically then most think
    tough one, Barrera slightly…

    • Teddy Reynoso

      I dunno about the rest but I think Wangek beats Inoue in Bangkok given Japan’s futility record fighting in world title fights in Thailand. SSR by mid to late round stoppage.

      • Mauro Hermida

        Inoue isn’t getting stopped. I have never seen the guy get stunned. He also hits a lot harder that Gonzalez at 115 did. The thai is also easy to hit. He will box him and take him out late.

        • Luis Rivera

          He hasn’t fought anybody of note.

    • Keano

      Monster vs Wangek SSR (115) – After Saturday, Wangek
      Mikey G vs Crawford 140 – Crawford (unfortunately)
      Loma vs Mikey G 135 – Mikey G
      Charlo vs GGG 160 – GGG
      Khan Vs Porter 147- Porter
      Spence vs Garcia 147 – Spence
      Barrera vs Jack 175 – Barrera

  • Teddy Reynoso

    Everyone seems to forget that the best super flyweight ever was a Thai, Khaossay Galaxi who never fought in the USA and hence was never recognized as pound for pound best.

    • Mauro Hermida

      I think guys like Tapia and Too Sharp would have given that guy a run for his money or defeated him. I admit never saw much of Galaxy outside of clips. I know he could punch. But for my money, these two were pretty special, especially at 115. Tapia had an incredible beard and ability to go with it and Too Sharp had it all.

    • Left Hook2

      Great read on him in the ring a few days ago–“best I fought”. He destroyed his opponents..

  • Mauro Hermida

    I don’t think Estrada presents any threat to Inoue, especially if he fights in first gear like he did for a lot of his fight with Cuadras. For all the KOs, Cuadras really slaps a lot and doesn’t have much in the way of power. If that was Inoue hitting Estrada, it would have been over by 6. I also don’t think Estrada is a great puncher, solid yes. Its hard to rate Inoue on this performance because he knew he had a guy in there that couldn’t hurt him and wasn’t a threat. He toyed with him from what I saw and threw caution to the wind with his defense. I saw him slip when he wanted to. I didn’t see a guy that cared if he got tagged a bit. In other fights, I have seen him more responsible. He would have to be respectful of the top guys and he would be imo. Still, even with some of the mistakes he makes, he will have more than enough talent to KO or bludgeon the top guys at 115. If he moves up, I will take it as a sign he had trouble making weight. That may already be the case.

    • Ten Count Toronto

      I wouldn’t dismiss Estrada’s power so quickly. He did more damage to Cuadras with fewer punches landed than Gonzalez and there must be some reason Gonzalez put a prohibitive asking price on the idea of an Estrada rematch.

      However I do agree he’d probably be in big trouble against Inoue and would have his hands full against Rungvisai as well, there’d be a lot more power coming back from those two than there was from Cuadras.

  • Spider Rico

    Canelo over Martinez

  • Teddy Reynoso

    Why is it necessary for Asian fighters to fight and win on US soil to confirm their greatness? Why can’t the same be said of American and continental fighters who fight exclusively in their home ground?

    • Dee Money

      I don’t think it is necessary, but you are on a website that caters primarily to an audience in of Europeans and North Americans…so we have our built in regional bias (as I am sure fans from Asia do too). Now historically speaking the preponderance of great fighters have come from the West, so there is some fairness to assume that a fighter from outside this region would have to prove themselves against (or in this case IN) these regions of traditional dominance.

      That being written, you pointed out below how many great sub 115 fighters come from Asia; I believe alluding to the discrepancies in average size between people particularly in East Asia relative to the West. Since there is a larger population of people who would be at that size then there stands a greater chance of having more great fighters at that size. I think most boxing fans in the west accept that there are a lot of really good fighters in the lighter weights in Asia who we may not get to see out here without scouring youtube. We’d still like them to come out here, but we don’t deny their greatness

      • Teddy Reynoso

        Thanks man. Am not dissing fans from the West. I am questioning the claim of this publication as an international boxing authority. They should know the quality of boxing in Asia without fighters from our region coming over to prove their worth to fans here. We follow boxing in America and know and respect boxers from this area based on their reports and accounts of their fights. Why can they not reciprocate? Why the thick occidental orientation and bias?

  • Kiowhatta

    I was just thrilled hearing the ‘thud’,and ‘whack’ reverberating from Inoue’s body shots, (one of the commentator’s mentioned one could here them around the arena) if that guy can bang the body like that, and not abandon the sweetest part of the sweet science in the years to come, just think of the body shot highlight reels to come!

  • mikescapes

    Just a thought. Lots of talk (especially by Lampley and Kellerman) about Choco coming up in weight. And they further commented on his mental state after the first loss. Painful to listen to them play psychiatrists. Anyway, fighters, like everyone else, gain weight as they age. Why wouldn’t Choco be a natural 115lb.fighter at this stage of his career? Isn’t it reasonable that he moved up because he had trouble making the lower weight. But forget 115 lbs. The true weight is at fight time. He weighed 125 lbs. Same as Sor. Maybe, just maybe, it was a weight loss that took the fire out of him. I thought he looked depleted when he came into the ring.

    • Nixtradamus

      Absolutely!
      Funny so many people are making excuses for his weight, when Chocolatito himself says in this interview that weight was not a problem – he said the only reason he went to 115 is that he can no longer make 112. He gives props to his opponent and said he was in great shape for the fight, but Sor was the better man and caught him with punches that hurt him.

      Very humble and totally honest interview by Chocolatito. He also says odds are he will retire, but has not made a decision yet. He did not offer any excuses.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mmhbc4-Gv-s

    • Ten Count Toronto

      Well, James Toney can easily weight the same as Anthony Joshua on fight night, that doesn’t exactly make them equal size. Gonzalez’ legs & upper body look clearly 2 divisions bellow that of Rungvisai & Inoue. Without style, mobility & defense to offset size, Gonzalez was just plain overmatched.

      I have no doubt Choco had trouble making weight, but I think it’s partly because he hasn’t been professional enough about keeping his weight down between fights at least in recent years.Had he taken weight maintenance as a year round job perhaps he would still be able to fight at 112 (he wasn’t exactly lean at 112 either ). Most images of Gonzalez between fights show him in quite round form.

      It’s bad luck for fighter to be stuck with a short & pudgy body type which concentrates weight around the waist and naturally resists leaning out, especially these days when gaming the weight-class system is such a big part of the sport. Gonzalez needed to go above and beyond to keep himself on the Hobbit end of the weight spectrum.

  • Floridastorm

    I think that the beginning of the end was when Gonzalez fought Cuadras. He took a lot of hard shots over 12 rounds and I actually thought that Cuadras won that fight by a slim margin. Then, he took more hard shots over 12 rounds from Rungvisai. Gonzalez is not a good defensive fighter. He relied on his offense to overwhelm his opponents. When he couldn’t hurt both Cuadras and Rungvisai, that was the beginning of the end. He should retire before he gets really hurt.

  • Nixtradamus

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EXbdJ1W4Po4

    Chocolatito Magically inserted at #3 P4P spot. Watch to see the truth. Video was posted 2 years ago, so, knowledgeable fans have known about the hype job since the beginning.

  • Solo Kayo

    Ffs Doug, “mulatto butt cheeks” ARE YOU SH*TTING ME???!!!! After everything Ring Magazine said about the “racist” remarks during the MayMac promo? It’s bad enough when we readers drag every conversation down into race-related bullsh*t, we don’t need you doing it too smh. C*nt.