Above: Dmitry Bivol’s position in the mythical rankings has been a sticking point for some. (Photo by Richard Pelham/Getty Images)

FISCHER’S FAQS: P4P EDITION

People ask me questions. Ninety percent of the time, these questions are boxing related. And 99% of the time, I’ve got a response for them – whether it’s in person, via email (which I received in giant daily batches for more than 20 years when I penned my twice-weekly mailbag columns), or on social media.

I can’t guarantee that my answers will satisfy the askers, but that’s not a problem for me. After decades of following and covering this crazy sport, I still enjoy talking about boxing, even with complete (and sometimes rude) strangers. 

In recent years, no other subject has fueled hardcore boxing fan discourse and debate as much as the pound-for-pound rankings. And since no other mythical ratings has the history or significance of The Ring’s, this magazine’s pound-for-pound top 10 remains the most relevant and the most scrutinized. I’ve been the Editor-In-Chief of the 102-year-old publication since late 2017, so I’m often the target of fans and insiders who disagree with The Bible of Boxing’s pound-for-pound rankings.

The disagreements don’t always come from abrasive strangers on ‘X’ or snarky (usually anonymous) comment-section postings under the Ring Ratings Update articles. Sometimes the decisions of the Ratings Panel baffle good friends. 

Three boxing biz pals of mine – veteran publicist Bernie Bahrmasel and the co-hosts of the longrunning 3 Knockdown Rule podcast, Steve Kim and Mario Lopez – recently posed their pound-for-pound questions to me in person. 

Bahrmasel caught me by surprise just before the start of a press conference for a 360 Promotions card in New York City during St. Patrick’s Day week. He told me he couldn’t wrap his head around Canelo Alvarez being ranked ahead of Dmitry Bivol in The Ring’s pound-for-pound rankings. 

Against Bivol, Canelo was out of his league for the first time since he fought Floyd Mayweather in 2013. (Photo by Al Bello/Getty Images)

“What’s the deal with that?” he asked when he noticed me sitting behind him. It’s a fair question, one that drew the attention (and some chuckles) from media and cornermen who were in earshot of our friendly debate.

Bivol scored a unanimous decision over Alvarez in May 2022 but Canelo is currently rated No. 4, two spots in front of the undefeated WBA light heavyweight titleholder. 

“It doesn’t make sense,” Bernie said, getting nods from the evesdroppers. “Bivol dominated Canelo.” 

“I know, I was there,” I replied, then went on to explain that if Canelo were a light heavyweight, Bivol would definitely be ahead of him in our 175-pound rankings. But he’s not a light heavyweight. He’s the reigning super middleweight champ. That victory was impressive, not just because he outpointed Canelo, but he made it clear enough so that the Vegas judges couldn’t rob him. It cemented Bivol as an elite light heavyweight, it was enough to get him in the top 10, but not enough for him to debut in the top five. Honestly, he did what he was supposed to do, even though Canelo was the odds favorite. But most of us favored Canelo on points because Bivol usually goes the full 12 and their fight was in Las Vegas, where we know the judges bend over backwards for the Mexican star. 

Bivol shined that night, but Canelo was the one doing the pound-for-pound shit. He was the challenger, he was the one coming up in weight, vying for the title of one of the two best light heavyweights. He fell short, but that doesn’t mean he should drop to the back of the pound-for-pound top 10, or off the list. We’re talking about a guy who was once the JUNIOR middleweight champ.

You can’t apply divisional ratings logic to the pound-for-pound.

I get why Bernie, and many others, would prefer to see Bivol ahead of Canelo, who was No. 1 going into their fight. Bivol outclassed him as thoroughly as Floyd Mayweather Jr. did back in 2013, but did so with more physical authority and to a more mature and complete version of Canelo.

Canelo was just 22 years old when he won his first Ring belt (154 pounds) with a victory over Austin Trout in 2013.

However, beating the man doesn’t always make you the man in boxing, especially in the view of an ill-defined ranking system that often takes a fighter’s entire career (or their body of work at the world-class level) into account.

Canelo didn’t get to No. 1 with one or two hot performances. He worked his way to the pound-for-pound pinnacle over the course of several years and multiple weight classes. The Guadalajara native first entered the rankings in late 2015 when, as the No. 1-rated junior middleweight, he dethroned Ring Magazine/lineal middleweight champ Miguel Cotto via unanimous decision. Over the next six years, Alvarez took on Gennadiy Golovkin (twice), Daniel Jacobs, Sergey Kovalev, Callum Smith, Billy Joe Saunders and Caleb Plant in world title bouts that saw him unify middleweight belts, win a major strap at light heavyweight and earn undisputed champion status at super middleweight. 

You can’t apply divisional ratings logic to the pound-for-pound.

Canelo is a four-division titleholder who has earned Ring Magazine championships in three weight classes (junior middleweight, middleweight and super middleweight). His only losses are to a first-ballot hall of famer (who many view as an all-time great) and an elite light heavyweight in his prime. Following the loss to Bivol, Canelo returned to the 168-pound division, where he defended his undisputed crown against Golovkin (who entered their rubber match as The Ring’s No. 1-rated middleweight), super middleweight contender John Ryder and undisputed junior middleweight champ Jermell Charlo. Those wins weren’t enough to elevate Alvarez in the pound-for-pound, but they kept him from dropping further in the rankings.

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No disrespect to Bivol, but his resume is rather thin in comparison. Alvarez is the only elite fighter he’s faced. One can argue that the lopsided UD he scored over Gilberto Ramirez in November 2022 has aged well in light of Zurdo’s recent cruiserweight world title victory. But Bivol got credit for those wins, which made him the consensus 2022 Fighter of the Year and briefly lifted him (above division rival Artur Beterbiev) to the No. 1 spot in The Ring’s light heavyweight rankings. 

It was a hell of a year, but it remains his ONLY standout year so far. The cream of the P4P crop have SEVERAL badass years under their belts. Two great performances in 2022 and a WBA belt do not – in my humble opinion – place him in the company of Terence Crawford, Naoya Inoue, Oleksandr Usyk or even Canelo – all current and former undisputed champions who have cleaned out divisions. 

Personally, I think Bivol and Beterbiev (currently No. 5 in The Ring’s P4P rankings) need to show the world who’s truly the best light heavyweight before we consider either man to be worthy of the top five. Thankfully, their anticipated showdown for the undisputed 175-pound championship is set for June 1.  

I told Bernie if Bivol beats Beterbiev, he deserves to rank ahead of Canelo.

His reply: “Don’t worry, he will.”

***

A few weeks later, while in studio for a taping of the 3 Knockdown Rule podcast, Kim and Lopez grilled me on Errol Spence’s inclusion in The Ring’s pound-for-pound top 10.

Both wondered why Spence, currently No. 8, remains on the list after the brutal beatdown he received from Terence Crawford last July.

Again, it’s one loss. Yes, it was devastating, but who he lost to has to be taken into consideration. 

Ask 100 fans and pundits if Crawford is a future hall of famer, I bet you 100 will say “Hell yeah!” Ask the same group if he’s an all-time great, the special type of competitor who would have competed with prime lightweight versions of Roberto Duran and Floyd Mayweather or prime welterweight versions Ray Robinson and Ray Leonard, and I wouldn’t be shocked if the majority believed so. 

Crawford’s obliteration of Spence surpassed even the expectations of most who expected “Bud” to win. (Photo by Al Bello/Getty Images)

When Crawford floated his dream fight vs. Canelo to the public in the weeks that followed the Spence victory, a lot of knowledgeable boxing pundits gave him a real chance of pulling the upset (and some said they wouldn’t consider it an upset).

Well, if he’s THAT freaking amazing, if he’s the generational talent that everybody claims him to be after the Spence fight, it shouldn’t be a sin to lose to him. 

Had Spence been thrashed like that by some young gun who is still proving himself, even one as talented as Jaron Ennis or Eimantas Stanionis, OK, maybe that would merit his removal from the pound-for-pound. But he was dominated by a fellow P4P elite, a once-in-a-lifetime talent, according to pretty much EVERYBODY. News flash: It happens in boxing. It doesn’t necessarily mean that the loser isn’t still elite.

James Toney didn’t drop out of The Ring’s pound-for-pound (or KO magazine’s “Dynamite Dozen”) when he was outclassed over 12 rounds by a prime Roy Jones Jr. in 1994. And Jones didn’t drop out when he got KTFO by Antonio Tarver 10 years later. 

The example I presented to Steve and Mario was Wilfredo Gomez’s challenge to Salvador Sanchez in 1981. 

Going into the anticipated clash, Gomez, the reigning WBC 122-pound champ at the time, had rung off 32 consecutive knockouts (including 14 consecutive title bout stoppages) after being held to a draw in his pro debut. Talk about momentum! In The Ring’s 1980 “Best Fighter Poll,” an annual pound-for-pound top 10 compiled from the lists of top boxing scribes, Gomez ranked No. 3, behind only Roberto Duran and Sugar Ray Leonard.

Sanchez (right) nails Gomez.

None of that mattered to Sanchez, the defending WBC featherweight champ, who dominated Gomez to an eighth-round stoppage. The beating was brutally similar to Crawford’s ninth-round TKO of Spence. 

Did that mean Gomez was finished? (If social media had been around back then, I’m sure a legion of armchair Eddie Futches would have declared so.)

But no, “Bazooka” was still the man at junior featherweight. He fought six times in 1982, winning all by KO, including title defenses against Ring-rated Juan “Kid” Meza, Roberto Rubaldino and Lupe Pintor. Gomez’s epic 14th-round stoppage of Pintor, the reigning WBC bantamweight titleholder, was a Fight of the Year candidate.

Steve said I made good points, but he gave this counterpoint: “They were a lot more active in Gomez’s day.”

True. Spence, who made sure to be ringside to call out the Tszyu-Fundora winner on March 30, might bounce back as Gomez did. We’ll see. But if he doesn’t get a fight scheduled by the end of July, he’ll be dropped from the pound-for-pound due to inactivity.

***

After going over the current top 10, Mario suggested replacing Spence with Teofimo Lopez, who had been hovering around the back of the rankings since lifting the Ring/WBO 140-pound titles from Josh Taylor last summer. However, he dropped out following a controversial split decision over Jamaine Ortiz in February.

Lopez shared Fighter of the Year honors with Tyson Fury in 2020. (Click to visit issue)

“Ask yourself this: Did he look like a pound-for-pound, elite-level fighter in his last fight?” I asked Mario.

Mario countered with Lopez’s brilliant performance against Taylor.

“He’s awesome when he’s on, but he’s a hot-and-cold fighter,” I said. (Kim agreed.)

“Do elite-level boxers, pound-for-pound-caliber fighters, struggle with Sandor Martin? Do they lose to George Kambosos? Do they find themselves frustrated and unable to cut the ring off on a Jamaine Ortiz? You have to ask these questions.”

“These are good points, Mario,” chimed in Kim. Mario agreed but pointed out that Lopez (no relation, although Kim has his suspicions) has never been “blasted out” the way Spence was vs. Crawford.

Indeed. However, prior to the Crawford loss, Spence was not a hot-and-cold fighter.

He earned his way up the rankings over years of dominant performances, notably taking world titles from three formidable reigning beltholders – Kell Brook, Shawn Porter and Yordenis Ugas. He imposed his will on three very different (and difficult) styles. The loss to Crawford caused him to drop four spots in the top 10, but it shouldn’t totally erase his previous accomplishments.

***

Mario says if Oleksandr Usyk (currently No. 3) beats Fury, he should take the No. 1 spot from Crawford. 

I acknowledged that it would be a big deal. There hasn’t been an undisputed champion at cruiserweight and heavyweight since Evander Holyfield did it during the three-belt era. 

“Maybe,” I said. “I gotta see how [Naoya] Inoue looks against [Luis] Nery.” 

Doug Fischer is Editor-In-Chief of The Ring Magazine. Email him at [email protected]. 

Follow @dougiefischer