GGG VS. DEREVYANCHENKO

Hi Dougie,

I’m a long-time reader first time writer.

The mailbags are always a highlight of my lunch break as I appreciate how informed, witty and no-nonsense you are. I’m seldom any of those things but I am a GGG fan so there was a lot to take home from last night’s (4am UK) brutal scrap but not much of it actually seems to tell us a anything we didn’t already know?

Firstly, I avoid social media and comments sections, because they quickly spiral towards negativity, and therefore I hadn’t heard the rumours of illness surrounding GGG. My very first thought when seeing him warm up was that he looked pallid and unwell. His ringwalk looked like a man who wanted for the night to be over quickly and my thoughts went straight back to AJ at the same arena a few months prior.

Indeed, he was lacking something and seemingly unable to implement all the speed and defensive improvements we’ve been told a full camp with Banks was supposed to achieve – even his usually impeccable balance went awol. Frankly, Banks seemed to know all he could do was nurse GGG through the fight with SD landing with volume. So has Banks improved GGG?

Secondly, and still assuming GGG was ill, it’s obvious that Derevyanchenko (SD) is a quality operator with a great engine but sadly he is likely to remain a challenger rather than qualified champion. He adapted well to the cut and, like Tyson Fury recently, he actually seemed to be energised by it. His corner worked wonders but even with the team working to their full potential they couldn’t find a way to better a truly elite fighter who was less than 100%.

Some of the talk coming from the SKY broadcast was that maybe GGG is starting to show his age but again how can we know for sure? Has he lost his power? His engine?

I was genuinely nervous when it went to the scorecards with DAZN thinking SD had it and SKY favouring GGG. It seems the judges favoured the cleaner punches of GGG to the nasty flurries of SD and if that’s the case then maybe GGG learned something from Canelo of all people?

Canelo might hop in for a trilogy now after his no-lose bout with Kovalev?

It was a great fight and the crowd rightly seemed to show lots of love to both fighters until the post-fight interviews when they booed ggg. He certainly seemed upset by it.

Mythical match ups often favour fighters from yesteryear so I’ll mix it up (apologies if these have been done before):

Prime GGG v Prime Canelo

Prime Manny v Prime Floyd

Callum Smith v Joe Calzaghe

Have a great week. – Chris, Shropshire, UK

Thanks for the kind words and for sharing your thoughts, Chris. Your Mythical Matchups: I’ll go with Prime GGG, Prime Manny and Joe Calzaghe by clear UD in competitive and entertaining fights.

Firstly, I avoid social media and comments sections, because they quickly spiral towards negativity, and therefore I hadn’t heard the rumours of illness surrounding GGG. Good call on social media. Golovkin and Derevyanchenko delivered an intense see-saw Fight-of-the-Year candidate but it seems like 80% of the fan reaction  on Twitter is something negative (judges robbed SD, Banks needs to be fired, GGG is shot, GGG needs to retire, GGG is an overrated hype job, etc.) I don’t know if modern boxing fans know how to actually enjoy a hotly contested 12-round match between two top contenders. It’s sad. Regarding the rumors of GGG’s illness, I didn’t hear them until the weigh-in and a little more of it prior to the fight, but I ignored them because I hear that stuff before most of his weigh-ins (and the weigh-ins of any well-known boxer) – there’s always a group of fans or insiders that claim the fighters “don’t look right.” He looked fine to me.

My very first thought when seeing him warm up was that he looked pallid and unwell. His ringwalk looked like a man who wanted for the night to be over quickly and my thoughts went straight back to AJ at the same arena a few months prior. You weren’t alone in those thoughts. I received several text messages from friends and colleagues who predicted that Golovkin was going to lose, and even be knocked out, just before the start of the fight. All I told them was that it was going to be a hard 12 rounds for both middleweights.

Indeed, he was lacking something and seemingly unable to implement all the speed and defensive improvements we’ve been told a full camp with Banks was supposed to achieve – even his usually impeccable balance went awol. He appeared stuck in the same gear and overly methodical, but I also believe that he was pacing himself on the assumption that SD would fade over the second half of the bout. And I think he was satisfied with his ability to pick off shots (something the DAZN commentators seemed to miss) and pleased with his economical power punching that found the mark in the early rounds. I think GGG believed he would eventually clip SD with a sure shot down the stretch.

Frankly, Banks seemed to know all he could do was nurse GGG through the fight with SD landing with volume. So has Banks improved GGG? Not that I’ve seen. Golovkin has looked the same to me vs. Steve Rolls and SD, which is not really a bad thing. The mid-30s version of GGG can still blast out fringe guys like Rolls, but he’s going to have to battle tooth and nail with hardnosed legit contenders like SD. Versus fast and rangy stick-and-move specialists like Demetrius Andrade and Billy Joe Saunders, he might get outmaneuvered and outpointed.

Secondly, and still assuming GGG was ill, it’s obvious that Derevyanchenko (SD) is a quality operator with a great engine but sadly he is likely to remain a challenger rather than qualified champion. Everybody is fixated on the punishment they think GGG absorbed, but the truth is that we witnessed a TWO-WAY BEATING, and there’s no telling how much those 12 rounds took out of Derevyanchenko. I hope he can bounce back, though. He’s card carrying badass and he’s a better boxer/athlete than I thought he was. I’d love to see him get another crack at GGG or a shot at Andrade.

His corner worked wonders but even with the team working to their full potential they couldn’t find a way to better a truly elite fighter who was less than 100%. Yeah, Derev’s corner did a great job on the cut and with their advice to him between rounds, that’s a top-class team. I think they did the best they could, as SD certainly did, and more than a few observers believe he did enough to win the fight.

Some of the talk coming from the SKY broadcast was that maybe GGG is starting to show his age but again how can we know for sure? I think that’s a fair question or observation. He’s lost a step in terms of speed and reflexes.

Has he lost his power? His engine? I think he’s still got those attributes. He couldn’t stop Derevyanchenko but the rugged Ukrainian looked like he’d been attacked with a baseball bat by the end of the fight.

I was genuinely nervous when it went to the scorecards with DAZN thinking SD had it and SKY favouring GGG. I wouldn’t have been shocked or upset had Derevyanchenko won that fight (as long as it was by a 114-113 margin), but I thought the knock down pretty much ensured that he’d get the nod on the official scorecards.

It seems the judges favoured the cleaner punches of GGG to the nasty flurries of SD and if that’s the case then maybe GGG learned something from Canelo of all people? Quality (power and accuracy) over quantity.

Canelo might hop in for a trilogy now after his no-lose bout with Kovalev? Sure, why not? He doesn’t like Golovkin or want to deal with “the People’s Champ” during the promotional build-up to No. 3 but he’s also gotta know that the older man appears ripe for the taking.

ROUGH NIGHT FOR GGG

Hi Doug,

The short and sweet of this one, Doug….I am a big Golovkin fan, but I thought Triple G lost Saturday night. I didn’t score the fight by rounds (I never do) I just watch the bout and know how I feel when it is over. Aside from the early knockdown Derevyanchenko backed Golovkin up and dictated much of the action. He even visibly hurt Golovkin with that hook to the body. (Hadn’t seen that before.) In Golovkin I did not see the stalking destroyer that he was in the past and he never (as I saw it) visibly hurt Sergiy as he had other opponents (aside from the cut). I realize he is getting older but there just seemed to be no fire in his attack.

The commentators indicated that he might have not been well this week and I read after the fact that injuries in the fight hampered his performance. If that is true then it explains a lot. I’m glad it wasn’t Canelo he was in with Saturday night because Triple G would have been out of there. From this point I don’t think some of the up and coming contenders are going to be as afraid of him as they might have been before.

How do you feel about it, Doug? Has Triple G slipped that much or was it just an off night…and who is next for him? – David, Nashville

Either a rematch with Derevyanchenko or Kamil Szeremeta (a light-punching but unbeaten Polish boxer who is highly rated by the IBF, and also made an appearance on the GGG-SD undercard on Saturday).

I don’t think he’s slipped as much as many fans and members of the media believe. Derevyanchenko was always going to be a tough night for him (I’ve said this for two years, ever since he beat Tureano Johnson).

SD would be hard night for Canelo Alvarez too, due to his durability, activity, body attack and underrated footwork. If GGG fought that badass while injured or under the weather (or both), he’s a f__kign meta-human.

I am a big Golovkin fan, but I thought Triple G lost Saturday night. You’re not alone in that opinion.

I didn’t score the fight by rounds (I never do) I just watch the bout and know how I feel when it is over. I scored it round by round and had it neck-and-neck throughout; even (in rounds, not points due to the knockdown) after four rounds, six rounds, and 10 rounds. Golovkin won Rounds 11 and 12 on my card to pull away with a 115-112 tally.

Aside from the early knockdown Derevyanchenko backed Golovkin up and dictated much of the action. True. He also got caught with a lot of clean, damaging punches while he did that.

He even visibly hurt Golovkin with that hook to the body. (Hadn’t seen that before.) I thought Canelo hurt him to the body a few times during their rematch.

In Golovkin I did not see the stalking destroyer that he was in the past and he never (as I saw it) visibly hurt Sergiy as he had other opponents (aside from the cut). I thought he stunned Derevyanchenko a few times during the fight, and while he did not apply constant pressure throughout, he pressed SD periodically. Derevyanchenko moved a bit more than I expected. You’re painting a picture of SD on the advance throughout the fight, but that’s not what happened. SD knew when to get out of range when he needed to, which was one of the main reasons he gave GGG so much trouble (along with his greater punch output and body attack).

I realize he is getting older but there just seemed to be no fire in his attack. No, GGG was not hell bent on breaking SD. His approach was very methodical, but also measured and surgical at times. I thought it was a mature performance from the more experienced pro. He wasn’t at his best, but he never lost his head and he didn’t allow SD to take full control of the fight.

I’m glad it wasn’t Canelo he was in with Saturday night because Triple G would have been out of there. That version of GGG absolutely gets his ass kicked by Canelo.

From this point I don’t think some of the up and coming contenders are going to be as afraid of him as they might have been before. GOOD!

SAME FIGHT, DIFFERENCE NARRATIVES

Hey Doug,

Been a reader of the mailbag since the Maxboxing days (we’re getting old) and I’ve written in a few times over the years.

I watched a Spanish-language broadcast of GGG-Derevyanchenko here in South America, and after seeing a bit of your Periscope I was thinking that perhaps I saw a different fight than many in the U.S.

Like you I saw that Golovkin had the better jab, landed the cleaner and harder punches, and that he blocked many of D’s punches with his arms and gloves (something GGG has always been great at). I also don’t fully trust punch stat averages in a fight with so many punches thrown and so many not landing cleanly.

It was a close fight and I had GGG take it 7 rounds to 5 for a clear but close win. The Spanish broadcast had it about the same, but they didn’t talk about scores much; instead they were losing their minds going on about what an incredible fight it was. Imagine hearing soccer announcers call a fight and scream “Goooooool!” every round for 12 rounds. That’s what it was like (I actually thought one of the guys was going to have a heart attack).

Perhaps that enthusiasm colored my opinion of the fight, because I left believing it was an instant classic. I don’t think I’m wrong in that, either.

However, you mentioned that American audiences got a very different broadcast—one that offered up a storyline that GGG did nothing and was finished as a fighter (more or less, I didn’t see the actual broadcast). I saw the online comments right after the fight and people were screaming robbery like it was Lewis-Holyfield 1. I can’t help but think the “color” commentary might have swayed a few opinions.

I guess my question is can announcers do more harm than good by controlling the narrative, and is there a line between relaying what they’re seeing and promoting a story driven by biases? Can you think of any egregious examples of announcers overstepping the ethics of blow-by-blow commentary?

Many thanks, sorry for the long-winded email, and I liked your daughter’s “chola” style in that Periscope.

(P.S. – I know that the crowd at MSG weren’t being swayed by announcers, but that booing was flat-out wrong. If they can’t appreciate how deep GGG had to dig to eke out that victory, and the sheer effort and will displayed by both fighters, then maybe they shouldn’t be spending their Saturday nights at the fights.) — Chris in South America

Agreed 100%, Chris. Thanks for reading all these years. Yes, we’re getting older, but we’re also getting smarter. I’ll pass on your compliment to Josie. She’s blessed with a sense of style, unlike her Old Man.

I watched a Spanish-language broadcast of GGG-Derevyanchenko here in South America, and after seeing a bit of your Periscope I was thinking that perhaps I saw a different fight than many in the U.S. If you enjoyed the fight and wasn’t fixated on Golvokin’s rumored ailments and condition or his “obvious decline,” then I’d say you DID see a different fight, and LUCKY you!

Like you I saw that Golovkin had the better jab, landed the cleaner and harder punches, and that he blocked many of D’s punches with his arms and gloves (something GGG has always been great at). Yeah, too bad the DAZN commentators missed that underrated ability of his. I’m glad I’m not the only one who thought GGG’s jab and power-punch accuracy was on point.

I also don’t fully trust punch stat averages in a fight with so many punches thrown and so many not landing cleanly. I think Derevyanchenko was credited for some punches that did not land.

It was a close fight and I had GGG take it 7 rounds to 5 for a clear but close win. Hey, that’s a damn good scorecard.

Gennadiy Golovkin and Sergiy Derevyanchenko went to war in a 12-round test of manhood. Photo by Ed Mulholland/Matchroom Boxing USA

The Spanish broadcast had it about the same, but they didn’t talk about scores much; instead they were losing their minds going on about what an incredible fight it was. I think they had the right approach and attitude. We were treated to the No. 1-rated middleweight facing a battle-proven top-five-or-six contender – both with extensive amateur backgrounds and fan-friendly power-boxing styles – why not ENJOY the damn fight!?

Imagine hearing soccer announcers call a fight and scream “Goooooool!” every round for 12 rounds. S__t, that sounds FUN! That sounds like a blast. I gotta stop f__kin’ around and learn to speak and understand Spanish (like my girls and my wife), and start watching “Boxeo en Espanol,” because the English-speaking U.S. broadcasters take this s__t WAY too seriously.

That’s what it was like (I actually thought one of the guys was going to have a heart attack). God Bless him. He gets it. I respect that.

Perhaps that enthusiasm colored my opinion of the fight, because I left believing it was an instant classic. I don’t think I’m wrong in that, either. You’re not wrong.

However, you mentioned that American audiences got a very different broadcast—one that offered up a storyline that GGG did nothing and was finished as a fighter (more or less, I didn’t see the actual broadcast). It wasn’t quite that bad, but if you just listened to the DAZN commentators without seeing the fight (imagine if it was a radio broadcast), you’d think Derevyanchenko was doing a lot more than he actually got done in the ring, and you’d think Golovkin wasn’t doing much.

I saw the online comments right after the fight and people were screaming robbery like it was Lewis-Holyfield 1. Yeah, I don’t want come off as harsh, but those people have no business scoring fights (if they even bothered to do so).

I can’t help but think the “color” commentary might have swayed a few opinions. I have a lot of respect for the DAZN broadcast booth and, for the most part, I think they do a swell job, but Sergio Mora and Chris Mannix seemed overly excited about everything Derevyanchenko did and underwhelmed by everything Golovkin did. Having said that, I must state again – for the record – that I have NO PROBLEM with anyone who thought that Derevyanchenko deserved the nod in a CLOSE bout. Mannix’s 114-113 scorecard for Derevyanchenko was a fair tally.

I guess my question is can announcers do more harm than good by controlling the narrative, and is there a line between relaying what they’re seeing and promoting a story driven by biases? I think commentators occasionally get LOST in the pre-fight narratives, so much so that they sometimes miss the fight that’s unfolding right in front of them, or they allow the narratives to color what they are seeing. Honestly, I think boxing commentators often talk too much during a fight (and I’m guilty of this myself). They feel like they have to bring the fighters’ backgrounds and all the build-up stories and “insider” info. to the broadcast, but sometimes less is more. Sometimes it’s better just to appreciate the fight like the South American commentators you mentioned – this is especially so when the fight is GOOD! Having said that, I don’t want to accuse the DAZN announcers of deliberately trying to “control the narrative,” as you put it. Plenty of fans and media who did not hear their commentary viewed the fight exactly as they did. Dan Rafael had the same score as Mannix. His fellow ESPN.com scribe Steve Kim, who was on press row with Rafael, saw the fight as you and I did. It was that type of fight. I just wish more fans allowed themselves to enjoy it rather than bitch about the official scorecards or obsess over GGG’s future.

Can you think of any egregious examples of announcers overstepping the ethics of blow-by-blow commentary? Speaking of Sergio Mora. I did the international call of his draw with Shane Mosley alongside Dave Bontempo, and we both thought Mora won the fight. I never saw the HBO broadcast with Larry Merchant (one of Sugar Shane’s biggest fans and supporters) and Jim Lampley, but I heard that they both ripped Mora throughout much of the fight and openly CHEERED for Mosley during the late stages of the junior middleweight bout when the veteran needed to rally. (Needless to say, they thought Mosley won the fight. LOL) Here’s a link to that HBO broadcast if you care to watch it (once was enough for me, it wasn’t exactly Trinidad vs. Vargas, if you know what I mean). 

AWESOME FIGHT, CLOSE DECISION

Hey Doug,

Well in the end it’s all about the fights isn’t it? GGG looked old but it made for a better fight. So, I’m kind of glad this happened. I’d rather see a guy like GGG give it all in the ring against a guy like Dervyanchenko and lose in the type of fight that made him. I hate guys like that losing a step and getting outboxed by a boring fighter, it’s so anticlimactic.

For the record I saw the fight for Sergey. I thought he won more rounds with more punches landed to the body and actually hurting my man G.    I thought it was 7-5 but with one round swinging the other way and GGG wins, so I’m not crying robbery.

Now, everybody’s gonna say GGG is old and he certainly looked that way, but I do have some observations about his game-plan.

Where was the jab? Seriously, this is his main weapon, he not only uses it like a power punch, it’s his measuring stick. He times opponents and commands the ring with it and it was absent from the first round.

I also didn’t see any adjustments from Banks, and it seemed G thought he could finish him with one punch.

So, my question is, was this GGG getting old? Bad game plan? Styles make fights? Or simply a combination of all of these.

Thanks Doug. Have a great week! What a year! – Juan Valverde, San Diego

What a year, indeed. We’ve been treated to back-to-back Fight-of-the-Year candidates with Spence-Porter and Golovkin-Derevyanchenko, and we’ve got Regis Prograis vs. Josh Taylor coming in less than three weeks. I don’t know why some fans can’t accept that GGG was just in with a top middleweight, just as Spence was in with a top welterweight, and the tough, hotly contested fight isn’t necessarily an indication that he’s faded. I thought Spence was pushed to the limit vs. Porter, and I was among those who thought the Ohioan did enough to win the bout, but that doesn’t mean I think Spence is overrated, or that he fought a poor fight.

Obviously, GGG is no Spring Chicken at 37, but I think the tough fight had more to do with the quality of Derevyanchenko and the style matchup than his game plan or his age.

Photo by Troi Santos/The Ring

GGG looked old but it made for a better fight. I think a younger GGG still would have had his heavy hands full with the version of Derevyanchenko that fought on Saturday. He may have wore the Ukrainian down to a late stoppage (probably on facial lacerations) but he still would’ve taken his lumps.

So, I’m kind of glad this happened. I’d rather see a guy like GGG give it all in the ring against a guy like Dervyanchenko and lose in the type of fight that made him. And that’s exactly what happened… well, except for the part about GGG losing.

I hate guys like that losing a step and getting outboxed by a boring fighter, it’s so anticlimactic. Well, you better hope Sir Eddie and Tom street GGG clear of BJS and Andrade, if you feel that way.

For the record I saw the fight for Sergey. I thought he won more rounds with more punches landed to the body and actually hurting my man G. You’re not alone.

I thought it was 7-5 but with one round swinging the other way and GGG wins, so I’m not crying robbery. It was just a very good, very close fight. Only GGG haters are crying “robbery.” But who cares? Crying is what they do best. We don’t want to take that away from them.

Now, everybody’s gonna say GGG is old and he certainly looked that way, but I do have some observations about his game-plan. If Golovkin is “old,” he’s one of the hardest and most punishing middleweights in their mid-to-late 30s since Bernard Hopkins and Mike McCallum, because he had badass MF like Derevyanchenko looking like the Toxic Avenger by the end of that fight. (Google it if you aren’t up on this particular bit of Geek culture.)

Where was the jab? Seriously, this is his main weapon, he not only uses it like a power punch, it’s his measuring stick. I thought his jab was on point for most of the night. It’s one of the reasons I scored some of the really close rounds for GGG.

He times opponents and commands the ring with it and it was absent from the first round. According to CompuBox, GGG landed 60 more jabs than SD (107 to 47) and at a higher connect rate (26.4% to 17.7%).

I also didn’t see any adjustments from Banks, and it seemed G thought he could finish him with one punch. I think they both knew it was going to be a long night.

THE FEELS FOR TRIPLE G

Damn that legit made me sad watching Gennady get booed like that. He tried his best and I think he did just enough to win. And remember, he got the s__t end of the stick twice recently. Great fight any way you look at it.

MMs:

Hopkins that beat Pascal vs Canelo

Hopkins right now vs GGG right now

(P.S. it would be Hopkins in both.) – Matt on Merritt Island

Gotta disagree with you in part, Matt. I think the Pascal version of B-Hops (from late 2010-to-mid-2011) outpointed Canelo, but I think the current version of GGG KOs the current version of Hopkins.

I agree that the GGG and SD put on a great fight any way we look at it, and I agree that it sucks that he got booed by the NYC fans, who are supposed to be better than that.

GGG LOST THAT FIGHT

Dougie,

I don’t say this as a hater. I have many fond memories of GGG, including being there live for the Jacobs fight, but he should get down on his knees and thank Andre Ward (patron SOG of gift decisions) that he didn’t lose this fight.

Golovkin was clearly just a step behind for most of the fight. SD was quicker, more aggressive, and commanded most of the fight in my opinion.

It’s not even really a knock on GGG, it’s just the circle of life. The man is a legend and a first ballot hall of famer, but he’s 37 years old. There’s no turn around coming, and I think Canelo eats him alive at this point. If I’m wrong and he’s got another two or three great years, then I’d be happy to admit it.

As is, I hope GGG takes a farewell fight and then rides off into the sunset. Thanks for the memories. Best. – Sean

Hey, hey, slow down, Sean. Golovkin ain’t goin’ nowhere. He’s got a sweet deal with DAZN. Win, lose or draw, he’s making the kind of money per fight that is burning Mr. Can’t Do Wrong’s ass with searing jealousy.

So, he’s lost a step – or two, or three – so what? He’s gonna be in good fights. GGG vs. Ryota Murata will be another war, just as a rematch with Derevyanchenko would be. Maybe he looks vulnerable enough to convince Uncle Al to allow Jermall Charlo to cross the street. That would be a tremendous promotion – especially in Texas – and I think it would make for a classic 160-pound shootout. And there’s Callum Smith at 168 pounds. The towering Englishman is probably too big, too fresh and too active for Golovkin at this stage, but it would be a hell of a scrap. And if GGG pulled out the win, he would add significantly to his legacy.

As “old” or “slow” as many thought he looked vs. Derev, I wouldn’t count him out in a rematch. If he was indeed sick, that means he’ll be sharper for the return bout, and I think SD absorbed more punishment in fight No. 1 and might not be the same going forward. The only guys I think might have GGG’s number at this stage are the stylists – Saunders and Andrade – and, of course, that popular redhead from Mexico.

I don’t say this as a hater. I have many fond memories of GGG, including being there live for the Jacobs fight, but he should get down on his knees and thank Andre Ward (patron SOG of gift decisions) that he didn’t lose this fight. Ward, who has impressively kept his hard-on for GGG after all these years, ain’t happy about somebody else getting the benefit of every doubt on the official scorecards.

Golovkin was clearly just a step behind for most of the fight. I thought it was tit-for-tat, round-for-round, almost from start to finish. GGG started better in the first two rounds, SD turned up the heat in Rounds 2 and 3, and then it was a matter of what you valued more – SD’s volume and body attack or GGG’s jab and head shots.

SD was quicker, more aggressive, and commanded most of the fight in my opinion. He was quicker and more aggressive, but I don’t think he was in command for most of the fight.

It’s not even really a knock on GGG, it’s just the circle of life. Cue the theme song to the Lion King. Boxing fans are so dramatic. 

The man is a legend and a first ballot hall of famer, but he’s 37 years old. #Facts.

There’s no turn around coming, and I think Canelo eats him alive at this point. You’re probably right about that – I would pick Canelo to win – but GGG deserves that shot at redemption if bout No. 3 can be made. Regardless, it’s still one of the biggest fights that can be made in boxing.

Email Fischer at [email protected]. Follow him on Twitter and IG at @dougiefischer, and watch him on Periscope every Sunday from SMC track.