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Ward-Kovalev does just over 160,000 PPV buys, source says

Photo by David Spagnolo / Main Events
28
Nov

Sergey Kovalev’s light heavyweight championship with Andre Ward on Nov. 19 may have been a massive encounter with pound-for-pound implications, but it certainly didn’t translate into massive success at the box office.

The bout, won controversially by Ward, generated just over 160,000 buys on HBO pay-per-view, a source confirmed to RingTV.com on Monday morning. The news was first reported by Yahoo!Sports. It’s a disappointing figure for a fight that featured two of the sport’s top performers, and which probably exceeded expectations in terms of drama. Ward rose off the deck in the second round to eke out a very close unanimous decision by three scores of 114-113.

Kathy Duva, who promotes Kovalev, didn’t return a message for comment; a spokesperson for Roc Nation also didn’t immediately return a call. HBO declined comment when reached on Monday morning.

In light of other recent PPV match-ups, Ward-Kovalev was a letdown. Though officials for the fight didn’t expect huge numbers, just over 160,000 is less than Manny Pacquiao’s decision against Jessie Vargas on Nov. 5 produced. Promoter Bob Arum said that bout did a little more than 300,000 PPV buys, and it’s possible that fight — just two weeks before Ward-Kovalev — affected sales.

Ward-Kovalev, who both had never fought on PPV before, was comparable to Gennady Golovkin’s eighth-round stoppage of David Lemieux in 2015, which did around 150,000 buys on HBO PPV. Golovkin and Lemieux had also never fought on PPV before and weren’t mainstream attractions. The same could be said of both Ward and Kovalev, who, while well-known and celebrated among boxing fans, may not have currency with general sports fans. Kovalev has a rematch clause to face Ward again and the question will be if the sequel should be on HBO PPV after the disappointment of the first fight.

  • PK

    No one ever discusses the effect of crap undercards on PPV buys. The UFC, love it or hate it, usually packs its undercards with solid or better fights. Boxing doesn’t do that. Casual fans aren’t willing to pay $70 for essentially one good fight. Poor value for money.

    • wrecksracer

      Sometimes it’s not even one good fight for $70 lol.

    • Chris Stans

      That undercard was atrocious

    • Robert Archambault

      The recent UFC PPV started here in Montreal on TSN with a pre-fight show at 7 PM, followed by a string of entertaining free undercard fights, then it moved to PPV with another series of decent undercard fights followed by the main event with Conor McGregor which was followed by a post-fight show on free TSN with fighter interviews and clips of the evening’s fights. It went off the air at around 2 AM Sunday I believe, as I decided to call it a night at around 1:30 AM and it was still going on.
      .
      Now compare that to the Ward – Kovalev fight… not a damn thing about it on free HBO prior to the PPV card starting, I was at a dinner so did my best to follow along on twitter but the entire event seemed to last a bit less than 3 hours with only the main event as a worthwhile fight. And that turned out to be a robbery. Even the replay of the event totally ignored the undercard, as HBO always seems to do, and featured only the main event.
      .
      Boxing does nothing at all to help itself. We used to get better boxing shows on the old Wide World of Sports with Howard Cosell FOR FREE!

      • Turner Wednesday

        I agree, apart from the bit about “free HBO”. That doesn’t exist.

        • Stephen M

          Regular HBO or non PPV. That is an excellent idea, they could give us the undercard for ” free”. It might get a few people interested. Mind you, the UFC doesn’t seem to pre paying the big bucks.

          • Julio

            Keep in mind that the UFC functions like a league mirroring the NBA, NFL, MLB, etc. Fighters are essentially employees, thus they have very limited clout in terms of who they fight. The company retains all control in the confection of its cards and can produce exactly what they want. Boxing is so fragmented that there is no way to do that with all the different promoters controlling the careers of the best fighters.

          • Herman Santos

            Change is desperately needed.

        • Robert Archambault

          Actually I do not pay for HBO, it is included in my TMN, The Movie Network, package here in Canada. So for all intents and purposes, it is free for me. I could not even cancel it if I wanted to without cancelling my TMN package.

          • Turner Wednesday

            I’m in Canada too and pay for HBO the same way. So, by paying for TMN, we are paying for HBO. It’s not on standard cable mate.

          • Robert Archambault

            My point is that I did not order HBO on it’s own and I would be pleased to continue to pay the same amount as I am paying now for my TMN package alone. The same applies to Crave TV which is included in my package at no extra cost. I would not pay extra for that on it’s own but it was a pleasant surprise when they added it to my package.

          • Turner Wednesday

            My point is that whatever way you slice it, HBO isn’t free – which it isn’t

    • Rick

      They don’t want to have to pay any decent fighters for undercard bouts which will cut into their profits knowing a lot of people only care about the main event. It’s just greed really.

    • Julio

      True. And this used to be a staple in boxing cards back in the 90’s from instance. King frequently put together some of the most stacked cards from top to bottom. But those days are long gone.

    • JV316

      agreed. and put a single mexican fighter of some name value on the card

  • wrecksracer

    Not surprised at all. Casual fans aren’t interested in paying $70 for guys they haven’t heard of, regardless of the quality of the matchup. Ward-Kovalev. Crawford-Postol. There aren’t enough hard core fans to do big numbers for fights like these. If PPV wants to survive, they need to bring back Don King era PPV extravaganzas with 10 title fights.

    • Stephen M

      I’m pretty hardcore and can’t justify paying 70$ for a PPV, especially seeing that there are other means of getting the fight.

    • Rick

      They’ll still put em on because even with low numbers like that you know they’re still making a nice profit, just not as much as they’d like. That’s still like 11.2 million in ppv alone, not to mention the gate and everything else. And the fact that neither of them required massive purses means more $ for the promoters. I would be more inclined to buy more ppv if they would drop the price but that’s not happening.

      • learnmore

        You can get away with these numbers when you are paying both fighters $3 or $4m like the GGG v Lemieux fight. 150k they made a profit. Kovalev v Ward is lucky that Roc Nation is suppose to be paying Ward his guarantee $5m. Probably still a loss

  • Kag Ang

    The PPV model simply doesn’t work any more.

    It worked when terrestial tv built the fan base, then PPV went on to milk the fanbase.

    The fan base isn’t getting built any more. Experiment over. De La Hoya and crew, go back to your MBA books and learn please. Different business model required.

    • Pietey Trenton

      Tell that to the ufc and conor McGregor.

  • Larry Connor

    Thanks so called “hardcore boxing” fans. Once again no support for significant fights. That’s why I continue to say what casual fans thinks matters.

    • wrecksracer

      I don’t think there are enough hard core fans left. Casuals aren’t interested in watching a bunch of guys they never heard of. Ward isn’t known as an exciting fighter to begin with. Kovalev barely speaks English. PPV used to be for huge events. As significant a fight as this was, it wasn’t a huge event. Maybe that was the promoters’ fault.

      • Skyler

        I remember will most of the PPV fights were reserved for only the biggest HW fights. Now every “major” fight from WW to HW is $50-$70. And that’s on top of what we pay for HBO and Showtime, etc. throughout the year.

        • wrecksracer

          and unfortunately nowadays half the time the fight is a dud. Take that Crawford-Postol fight….is anybody ever going to buy a Crawford fight again? His first PPV and the guy completely stinks the joint out.

    • Julio

      When you see high PPV numbers is because the casuals turn out in droves in all events. Hardcore fans are a tiny segment that certainly can’t carry on the success of any PPV by themselves. Kovalev-Ward was a losing gamble that all parties involved I am pretty sure they foresaw. But in order for both guys (Ward primarily) to take the fight, PPV was the only avenue.

      • Herman Santos

        Especially with Ward being touted as the 2nd coming of Mayweather. To the less forgiving casual that spells Boooorrrrriiiinnnngggg. LOL. (I crack mysel up sometime)

    • Herman Santos

      It’s ALWAYS been that way. CasuLs drive PPV hardcore drive subscriptions. Now a days, casuals want to see a fighter actually fight. They’re not tuning if if they won’t.

  • Ignacio Ortiz

    Not surprised this PPV flopped sales wise with most people choosing other means of watching the fight instead of paying the exorbitant 70 price tag for a below average undercard at best and a main event while on paper a good fight it didn’t end well with that bogus decision!! Unless boxing finds a way to actually promote and market their stars to the mainstream public this is what will continue to happen with Main Events and Roc Nation not investing one dime into actually selling this except for a 45 minute show on HBO. SMDH!

  • Herman Santos

    Floyd Mayweather single handily destroyed the PPV model with his “defensive” poor product fighting style. I’ve been saying for years that this taking the lowest risk for the highest return would come back to bite the guys that are the true warriors of the sport. It showed up here, Canelo’s dwindling numbers, and Floyd’s 300K and Mannys 400K numbers. It will take awhile to have the casual fan invest in Boxing due to Maywesther’s ducking and cherry picking and the fact that Canelo’s following that same model continues to hurt the sport.

    • Michel Desgrottes

      If he destroyed it why do people flock to pay for his Fights?

      • ciobanu catalin

        Why do people pay attention to kim kardashian and vote for a joke like trump….cause people are stupid and muricans are worse… Hihi

        • Michel Desgrottes

          So a Floyd fight is equal to trump and Kim k?

          • ciobanu catalin

            I was kinda kiddin…but what i meant was that floyd is one of those people whi attract a lot of attentio for nothing just because … And a lot of people tune in cause of his popularity or they just dont like him and want to him get a beat down. I mean think about it if kim k and donald would have an actual boxing match(wich i dont know who would actualy win), it would do great in ppv. Do you agree?

          • Stephen M

            I’m actually surprised Dom hasn’t Kim the job of Secretary of State. Then the administration could be nicknamed dumb and dumber…

          • ciobanu catalin

            I was kinda kiddin…but what i meant was that floyd is one of those people whi attract a lot of attentio for nothing just because … And a lot of people tune in cause of his popularity or they just dont like him and want to him get a beat down. I mean think about it if kim k and donald would have an actual boxing match(wich i dont know who would actualy win), it would do great in ppv. Do you agree?

          • Michel Desgrottes

            He’s definitely polarizing, but enough for tmz enthusiasts to pay for him? I think his skills and attitude pay the bills, even if he does act like a buffoon

          • Herman Santos

            But past his marketing, Floyd’s style focused TOO MUCH on defense. In reality, Offence wins fights unless the judges gives you a gift (I.e Ward v Kov). And the fact that Floyd picked around dangerous competition severely watered down his product. What great champion did Floyd fight in his prime or at his prime weight? The way he hoodwinked his fans and the public to squirm out of the Manny fight and then for HIM to be exposed as the real PED masking IV cheater, proved he was ducking the one man at least HE believed could beat him. You can only fool the consumer for so long.

          • Skyler

            without starting something, a lot people pay to see if Floyd will lose or get KTFO…and yes, he has a lot of the same TMZ type appeal as Kim K

          • Julio

            Right. The vast majority of Floyd’s “clientele” were those that just wanted him to lose. Floyd shrewdly realized that if he wanted to be a megastar, he had to appeal beyond his fan base that in my opinion, isn’t/ wasn’t very large.

          • Herman Santos

            This made Floyd an all time great BUSINESS MAN, but no one paid to see Floyd display his marketing skills they paid to see him fight. After they realized that Floyd’s style focused on taking the fight out of the fight (running, clinching and pot shotting) the casual fan became less interested in him and Boxing as a whole. Fighters like Lomo just may change that perception. His display of true Boxing brilliance has even the casual fan blazing.

          • Julio

            That all sounds well and good, but Lomachenko (unlike Floyd) doesn’t seem to have a compelling personality that helps him drive up his marketing value. Long gone are the days when skill alone would suffice to create a star, especially if you don’t have a fan base.

          • Herman Santos

            I agree to a degree. I am sure they will make his backdrop compelling enough. The buying public has had its fill of the bad boy window dressing. Put lipstick on a pig, it’s still a pig. Lomo is masterfully putting the combat back into the combat sport. That’s what matters and what everybody is talking about 3 days after this fight. People are viewing replays of the fight in droves.

          • Julio

            What is necessary to understand is that (for better or worse) polarization is what sells. Ali didn’t just become a legend for his boxing skills, but also because of what he represented in the grand scheme of things. Floyd created his own brand by fusing his sublime skills with an antagonistic character that spilled beyond the confines of the sport.

            People started to pay more attention to what he was doing, WWE, dancing with the stars, domestic violence, incarceration, etc. He was smart and brave enough to blend all those elements together, to manufacture this massively despicable and egocentric persona that had people asking for his head, both as a boxer and in the court of public opinion. Nice guys finish last, and always will be.

          • Herman Santos

            Again, I agree with you to a degree. I stop short of using the words “smart and brave” along with the words the domestic violence and incarceration. That may have worked for Floyd and Boxibg in the short term but it has long term negative effects.

            Sticking to the sport, to your point, polarization does sell to an extent. But you have to deliver a good product You can’t continue not being entertaining or being boring. That wears on the consumer and they turn against your product your brand and the overall sport. Which is why Boxing finds itself in this situation. They rode the back of a salesman and made short term money.

          • Julio

            I have been talking about Floyd, not anyone else.

          • Herman Santos

            Me too and definitely not.

          • Kudos

            Exactly, no one cares he’s gone.If it wasn’t for his name being linked to Manny and Connor who’d really give a fuck what he’s doing.

        • Kudos

          Trump 😂

        • Cousin Strawberry

          Hahaha👍

        • Cousin Strawberry

          Hahaha👍

      • Herman Santos

        Are you asking out of sarcasm or curiosity? If you’ve been keeping up with current events, people are no longer flocking to Floyd’s fights. His last PPV did less than 300K PPVs. At one time people were tuning in but it has been acknowledged that was mainly to see him lose. But once they caught on to his boring style and the fact that the Boxing establishment was not going to let him lose, EVEN WHEN HE DID, and when he was publicly confirmed that he was a cheater his “popularity” began to tank. Only his most loyal fans continue to cling to him.

        • Michel Desgrottes

          Berto ppv did less than 300k? Thought it did 400, and even still that’s better than most and his average was higher than that

          • Julio

            Floyd had an established value set in stone that would never dwindle to the depths of mediocrity. Years of creating that value will do just that.

          • Michel Desgrottes

            Then why are media outlets clamoring for his return?

          • Julio

            For the reasons I stated above. Floyd cemented his place as the PPV GOAT. As much as it makes me cringe.

          • Michel Desgrottes

            So they want to see him come back because of his PPV status?

          • Herman Santos

            Who is clamorin for Floyd. Not those that drive PPV revenue. They showed you how they felt about Floyd dying his last fight.

          • Michel Desgrottes

            The energy u have alone for Floyd shows me he will be just fine if he Comes back, it’s a good bet that you or someone u know would buy the fight

          • Herman Santos

            You’re funny. Truth be told, I do pay $10 to watch Floyd’s fights in a sports bar. Because that about what his in the ring entertainment value is. I encourage everyone i know to do the same.

            Instead of worrying about my energy, I need you to encourage all of these so called “slick” boxers to learn from fighters like Vasyl. These guys are coming to fight and are either causing these other fighters to quit or forcing them to win by gift. Heck Andre’s own fans booed him, man. These real fighters don’t care about PPVs and undefeated records. Floyd started that crap. The true GOAT lost 19 times. (Can you tell me who that is?) Slick boxers need to return to that fighter’s mentality.

          • Michel Desgrottes

            U can’t make fighters fight the way u want them to, trying to do that is arrogance

          • Herman Santos

            Fighters will fight the way the consumer wants them to or they will go the way of the dodo bird/Andre Ward. Only the fighters with solid offensive value will survive. Floyd’s style and business model is dead and is costing fighters and the sport money.

          • Michel Desgrottes

            The consumers don’t have as much power as u think they do, hence a failing PPV industry in boxing

          • Herman Santos

            Michael, falling PPVs is a direct indicator of just how powerful the consumer is. PPV numbers reflect how many consumers purchase a fight.

          • Michel Desgrottes

            No the consumer will always be there but they find other ways to consume said product, especially illegally in today’s climate, it’s the promoter job to find ways to bring the consumer back to a legal viewing, it never was the athletes job to protect and cultivate the industry

          • Herman Santos

            So you think, Ward Kov did 2 million buys? It’s just that the other 1,8 million illegally streamed it? Really? While I agree more folks are illegally streaming Boxing the fact that UFC PPVs are on the rise and Boxing PPVs are falling at an even faster clip shows that while more and more consumers are willing to pay for one product they are not willing to pay for another and the reason, if you listen to the voice of the consumer (these and other sites) is the falling value of the fightters and the underwhelming undercards. If the fight is not entertaining (and that is the responsibility of the fighter) why put down your hard earned money to watch it? Just get it for free. While it is the promoters job to set the expectation that the fight is “must see TV” it is the responsibility of the fighter to make it so.

          • Michel Desgrottes

            I have I didn’t quantify a number but I will say a lot of people who are into boxing specially around me are using Kodi to illegally stream fights, or they wait till the following week to view it on HBO or just hear about it Monday morning at the cooler, UFC is different cause Conor mcgregor is a personality that attracts attention, outside of him and Ronda who attracts attention that garners high ppvs for UFC today? People don’t watch conor cause of his knockouts, people watch Floyd for his personality same thing, relying on stars to carry a sport is risky and you’re better off building the sport as a whole on a wide free platform

          • Herman Santos

            It’s not just Connors personality, he shows up to fight. He delivers good product and so does Rousey. If they ran around the ring or did other things to take the fight out of the fight, they would see their numbers dwindle too.

            I’ve watched fights on KODI and the quality is crap. But I, and people like me, put up with that crap because the actual fight isn’t appealing enough or doesn’t pres t enough value to pay $70. Case in point, KODI didnt stop 4 million people from buying the Manny / Floyd fight. However Floyd’s very next fight did less than 10% of that number. Why the difference? The perceived value of the Manny fight had consumers coming out in droves despite streaming and the $100 price tag. Once his value dropped, less than 300K paid to watch his fight. Same Floyd, same personality. The consumer just doesn’t see any value in him anymore due not to his personality but to his boring fighting style. Poor product offering. Those whose fighting style are associated with that same safety first mentality, are suffering the same fate. Just ask Andre Ward.

          • Michel Desgrottes

            Ward and kovalev was good quality explain that

          • Herman Santos

            2 Things

            1. The Boxing PPV climate as a whole is at a sad low. Low value perception

            2. Many view Ward as the 2nd coming of. Mayweather translation not entertaining and boring with the running and the clinching.

            As a result many stream because it they view it not being with the $70 bucks. In contrast Manny did about double that.

          • Michel Desgrottes

            No way Andre Ward is the second coming of Floyd, floyd is boisterous, and Andre fights on the inside as well as outside but just jab a lot and are cerebral that’s a pretty lazy comparison

          • Herman Santos

            I hear you. Just the perception of many. Heck, there is a YouTube video with hundreds of like called Ward: Kovelev will get the Mayweather Experience.

          • Herman Santos

            You’re funny. Truth be told, I do pay $10 to watch Floyd’s fights in a sports bar. Because that about what his in the ring entertainment value is. I encourage everyone i know to do the same.

            Instead of worrying about my energy, I need you to encourage all of these so called “slick” boxers to learn from fighters like Vasyl. These guys are coming to fight and are either causing these other fighters to quit or forcing them to win by gift. Heck Andre’s own fans booed him, man. These real fighters don’t care about PPVs and undefeated records. Floyd started that crap. The true GOAT lost 19 times. (Can you tell me who that is?) Slick boxers need to return to that fighter’s mentality.

          • Herman Santos

            Agreed, but that model proved to be shallow and hollow. The consumer learned the difference between gold and fools gold. Floyd put out the latter from a fighting perspective. That boring safety first sophisticated ducking model is dead. Just ask Canelo.

          • Herman Santos

            Many made money off of this expert salesman. Now that reality is starting to settle in and the tide is changing toward real fighters vs businessmen who just so happens to box a little, you hear less and less of a desire for Floyd’s return. Floyd is going to have to fight Manny to make the money he wants to make and make it viable for the promoters.

          • Herman Santos

            Point is Floyd’s success was just as much about his opponent (as with most PPVs) as it was about him. He went from 4 million with Manny to less than 300K with Berto. Floyd was supposed to be the cash cow the PPV king that his name alone sold PPVs. The Berto fight was the consumer showing Floyd that he less of a king than he thought he was. To get a high pay day, he will need Manny again. But with two good shoulders and VADA in the mix and the way he looked against a one armed Manny and on the drip, Floyd runs again. He’ll try to fight Conner, but that’s a high priced WWE event. Floyd’s days are over. It is now the time of the true fighter.

          • Michel Desgrottes

            Don’t understand, what’s your measure for success for PPV to say he’s not a draw?

          • Herman Santos

            It’s not about a measure of success. It’s about the consumer’s perception of his dwindling value.

          • Michel Desgrottes

            The problem with that is the consumer still purchase his mechandise and still support him, so his value hasn’t deprecated to the point where he is irrelevant

        • wayne reid

          Funny how the fans took about 7 or 8 Ppv’s to finally catch up on Floyd’s boring style…the Berto fight is the only Ppv that flop thru out his entire career

          • Herman Santos

            That’s because he conveniently stopped fighting after his first flop. If he would have kept going, he would have continued to flop unless he fights PAC.

          • wayne reid

            Wow you’re either a Troll or don’t follow boxing or maybe both idk….Floyd announced his retirement way before that Berto fight actually it was expected right after the Showtime 6 fight contract was up

          • Herman Santos

            Not sure what difference that makes. He crapped out in the Manny fight and picked Berto. It tanked. End of story.

            Not a troll, I just don’t buy Floyd’s bull crap.

          • wayne reid

            It makes a Big difference when it debunks your theory that floyd only retired after the Berto Ppv tanked….Post facts not untruths because you don’t like him

          • Herman Santos

            You are correct. I don’t like Floyd’s fighting style. Most of his die hard fans like it because of who Floyd’s is and Boxing showcased him because of the money they made off him. Furthermore, I do not like how Floyd makes more of his style than what it is. Fighters are properly penelalized for excessive holding and running but somehow it is magically transformed into brilliance when Floyd does it. LOL. No it ain’t, the fighter you deem TBE is excessively running and clinching.

          • wayne reid

            You need watch Floyd vs Canelo fight no holding or running just a schooling

          • Herman Santos

            You are correct. I don’t like Floyd’s fighting style. Most of his die hard fans like it because of who Floyd’s is and Boxing showcased him because of the money they made off him. Furthermore, I do not like how Floyd makes more of his style than what it is. Fighters are properly penelalized for excessive holding and running but somehow it is magically transformed into brilliance when Floyd does it. LOL. No it ain’t, the fighter you deem TBE is excessively running and clinching.

      • Kudos

        Because he fights Latinos. If Floyd never fought again who cares really.

        • Michel Desgrottes

          Well I mean apparently a lot of people care they are always clamoring for his return

          • Charlie Underbite

            Well, speaking for myself, I want to see him get his long overdue ass beating.

          • Michel Desgrottes

            Exactly, polarizing, it’s not gonna happen though, there isn’t a welterweight out there I feel could hang 12 rounds with him

          • Charlie Underbite

            I’d give Keith Thurman a pretty good shot.

          • Michel Desgrottes

            I think he leaves himself open for counter punching too much

          • Charlie Underbite

            We’ll never see for sure because you know as well as I do that Floyd won’t fight him.

          • Michel Desgrottes

            Probably not but not even sure if Thurman is worthy, Berto wasn’t worthy but Floyd was thirsty for years to fight him hence him showing up at the Ortiz Berto fight years ago

          • Herman Santos

            You mean the way Mannybwas tagging that head. Floyd runs from a healthy Manny. That’s were the money is. Mannys ready (oh, but he will choose VADA. No more cheating for Floyd) will your boy step up again. You saw how he ran from Manny and Manny didn’t get tired. LOL.

          • Michel Desgrottes

            I think he leaves himself open for counter punching too much

          • Charlie Underbite

            I’d give Keith Thurman a pretty good shot.

          • Herman Santos

            Yes. They will get winded from chasing him. And with refs like Kenny that don’t penalize Floyd for excessive clinching and with fans that think running and holding is Boxing briallaince (LOL) Floyd can’t lose. However, real fighters are exposing his boring style.

          • Kudos

            They’re not. He was a great fighter and people are ready to move on.

    • Giuseppe

      I think PPV is such a poor model when you’re going for longevity of a sport. Everyone knows you cannot guarantee a good fight. the biggest fights can be duds. the smallest fights can be brilliant. subscription channels like boxnation make the best sense.

      The managers seem to kill the existing model through safe matchups. its no coincidence since the 900k of canelo cotto that his numbers have dwindled since ODH has been nannying him through shit matchups.

      • Julio

        PPV is the only platform at the moment that can guarantee those large purses that the prima donnas demand. There is no other way around it if the elite fighters are going to take certain risks. PPV is nothing more than a gamble that promoters take to recoup (or minimize the loss) of paying exorbitant amounts of money to fighters.

    • Ciscostudent561

      Floyd… the new Obama…ahahahha

  • Herman Santos

    The absolutely obsurd decisions PAC/Bradley 1 and more recently Kov/Ward and its Hooker undercard) also undermines Boxing’s value. Paying customers leave the experience knowing they saw one guy win pretty decisively and then hear a decision that defies logic. This alienates those generate the revenue. It also doesn’t help when fanboys, in an effort to explain away a bogus decision, tells that same revenue driving customer that they ‘don’t know ish about Boxing’. As a result, that same casual fan no longer buys into a concept that illogically awards the guy that got beat up with a win. In the end the sport suffers and so do the fighters.

  • Herman Santos

    Manny and Top Rank doubled this without a major network. Kinda serves HBO right. They could have made close to 500K PPVs, instead they only came away with 160K

    • wayne reid

      Ya’ll fans kill me,How can you compare? Manny is already a major Ppv star/attraction Ward /Kov are on their first attempt @ Ppv, look @ Floyd or Manny’s first Ppv numbers years ago and then do a comparison…smh

      • Julio

        You are right, but the PPV climate for those two was quite different then, than it is now. How ironic, the same pair that destroyed it for those that came after.

      • Herman Santos

        You are correct that this is there 1st PPV and that has to be taken into consideration.

        My point was many thought that Manny’s numbers would tank since “he was all washed up” and that he would be competing against Andre Ward’s PPV. In addition, many said that since Manny’s PPV wasn’t being backed by a major network it would tank. However, that wasn’t the case. My take is in addition to Andre being new to PPV, many associate his style (right or wrong) with a boring Mayweather style and would rather watch more of that the following week when it would be free. The way he fought with the lunging clinching single shot style (and that was after he “picked it up”) didn’t help his PPV appeal any. Kov will sell their rematch.

        As it turned out, Andre with another top 10 fighter in Kov did no better than 3G who fought a fighter few new in the states. So was that 3G’s win or Andre’s failure?

    • Mark Schoeman

      That’s if you believe Bob “Yesterday I was lying, today I’m telling the truth” Arum isn’t going to inflate an internal number, for which significantly fewer are in the know to correct, compared to the 3 parties of Ward/Kovalev.

      But even that’s irrelevant and using Manny for context makes no sense. McDonalds sells more volume than Five Guys….but that doesn’t mean Five Guys isn’t successful. We need more info: If Manny demands double of what Ward/Kovalev get combined, plus a percentage, HBO could still wind up ahead going with Ward/Kovalev….and that’s not even mentioning the future investment this represents in raising the profile of 2 guys whose best days could still be ahead of them, as opposed to the current cash out tour that is Manny post-Floyd.

      Your view, including the completely unsupported notion that putting HBO in the title doubles Manny’s number, is the definition of shortsighted.

      • Herman Santos

        If you go back to my initial comment, I was not using Mannys numbers to compare Andre’s drawing power to Manny’s. Manny is a global star. Andre is no where near Manny. Heck, from a global perspective, Floyd doesn’t compare.

        I was making a comment about how HBO played Manny and how it came back to bite them. As I stated, they should have produced both events.

        • wayne reid

          It’s HBO’s business decision not to invest in 2 Ppv’s in the same month

          • Herman Santos

            And they ended up losing. They could have made 500K and instead came away with only 160. Bad decision. They slapped the proven guy in the face for the new guy and it lost money just like they did with Crawford. Arum (whether you love him or hate him) is laughing all the way to the bank.

          • wayne reid

            Lol you do know that the CrawfordPostol was Bob Arum’s Top Rank right? Soo he loss too dumb dumb

          • Herman Santos

            Yes, but rumor has it it was HBO not Arum/Crawford that wanted Crawford/Postal to be PPV. Even if that is not true, now that Bob put on a relatively successful PPV event, he may do the same with Crawford and all his top fighters. He stands to make more by cutting out HBO

          • wayne reid

            Yea but since I don’t get a piece of the pie i’m just interesting in watching great matches not really into counting Arum’s $ or HBO’s losses

          • wayne reid

            You post contains no logic Where do you get this ‘coulda made 500k’ from? Ppv views are down why didn’t the proven guy vs Bradley do 500k? Smh

          • Herman Santos

            Keep reading or I will let someone else point out the obvious to you. It’s quite simple really.

          • Hbo decided to dump a cherry picking Pac.

        • Many is cold product…..not even on PPV anymore.
          Pac vs Horn = ESPN

          • Herman Santos

            So if Manny sold over 300K his last fight what does that make Andre “Ball Beater” Ward who didn’t even crack 175K his first fight with Kov? Comparing Wards numbers indicates putting Manny’s upcoming fight on ESPN was not because he is cold product. LOL

          • Actually, that’s exactly what it means.
            Look at Manny’s salary vs Ward’s then check the #’s.
            ESPN = No PPV sales

          • Herman Santos

            Well, we can put this baby to bed pretty quickly. Why don’t you send a link that shows how much Manny is making for this fight.

          • No guarantee!
            Many gets gate & Aussie PPV VS Vegas where bookies buy the fights.
            Know why this fight isn’t in Vegas? No one is betting on Horn….it isn’t in Macaus, China because….Manny is cold product!

          • Herman Santos

            So I guess that means you have no link, no hard provable facts on the dollar figure Manny is making. Instead youre speaking anecdotally (from your feelings and personal biases). Got it. Well, you find the link that shows how much Manny is making $ figure) and we’ll talk. Until then keep on trolling.

          • Huh?
            Australian government put up $10mil, Manny gets paid from gate and Aussie ppv….which depends on sales and attendance.

          • Herman Santos

            Doesn’t surprise me that you are a bit clueless as to the dollar figure Manny will make. Truth is, that has not been announced yet. You know about as much as everyone else. Which means as it relates to the dollar figure, nothing at all.

            Here’s a tip: High profile Boxers make money from several revenue streams in addition to those you mentioned.

            Here’s another tip: Wait until you have all the facts before you post.

            Just lookin out for ya.

          • I just explained why it hasn’t been announced / determined.
            Schmeling vs Joe Louis = Yankee Stadium
            Once bookies got involved….Vegas became more profitable because bookies / investors BOUGHT the fights.

      • wayne reid

        Soo true

    • wayne reid

      Tell us if Floyd vs Berto or Manny vs BradleyVargas couldn’t do 500k PPV’s. How could two first timers get it done?

      • Herman Santos

        Ward wasn’t supposed to do 500K, not in this climate. But HBO could have run both PAC and Andre’a fights and pulled in 500K combined. How do we know? Because Manny pulled in 300K and Ward did 160K. They could have done some cross promotion making it an “and” instead of trying to make it an “or” proposition. They turned Manny down and lost. Manny made his money and did not have to share any proceeds with a network. With the way HBO just under performed, BOB and other promoters may self promote in the future. Cut out the middleman. This has more negative long-term implications for HBO

        • wayne reid

          You should be on the HBO board or in their marketing dept since you know how best to generate $ in this climate

          • Herman Santos

            I am not saying allmthat, but thanks for the compliment. I did say, snubbing Manny was a bad move, they thought too much of Andre and that it would come back to bite them. That’s not business brilliance, dude, that is just common sense. Manny is a global icon, Andre is not even a superstar yet (obviously). At the very least they could have put Ward on the Manny undercard to help build his brand. But the way he fought and “won” maybe it’s good that didn’t happen.

          • wayne reid

            Are you crazy? HBO is a network not a promoter they can’t put Rocnation’s Ward vs Main events Kov on a Top Rank’s card those promoters make those decisions somebody else on this forum Charlie Orca Stephen M Robert even Auto plz explain to this newbie how boxing events works i’m done for the night sheesh

          • Herman Santos

            If you believe that networks have no influence then I understand why you have so many questions. Networks have a very powerful influence on which fights they show and the under cards.

          • wayne reid

            You are new to boxing if you think HBO could influence Roc nation & Main Events to put their Top Boxers on an undercard of a Top Rank Promotion enuff said Mr casual fan

          • Herman Santos

            But apparently Andre wasn’t so “top” was he? He needed to be on some else’s undercard for his PPV to be successful.

            As far as top boxers are concerned, 3G and Roman co-lead events and HBO plays a part in showcasing their event. And even if Gennedy and Roman aren’t fighting in the same country and at the same time, they manage to put those guys together. The network influences the “big drama show little drama show” thing to attract more viewers. And guess what. IT WORKS. But I don’t know what I’m talking about and you do? Call me casual, but the last time anyone checked, it’s the casual fan that influences Boxing revenue more than whoever you think you are right now.

          • wayne reid

            Lol now i know for sure you’re a casual fan because Triple G & Chocolatito have the same manager/promoter so that’s why HBO can put them together on the same cards (Fyi-4 different times) do some research before you post btw his name is Gennady…..smh

          • Herman Santos

            I am not big enough to admit when I am wrong. I used a bad example. Roman and 3G share the same promoter. Still, the networks do influence events and Andre and the networks would have been better served if Andre was on an undercard or co-led an event. Say Cotto or someone.

          • wayne reid

            Of course networks do But that’s with individual promotions & their own events show me evidence where Top Rank Main events Golden Boy & Roc nation had one event. Lol that will never happen you’re soo out of it

        • wayne reid

          Manny didn’t get his money Arum said the Ppv event had to do 500k for Manny to get his gurantee

          • Herman Santos

            If you honestly believe Manny fought for free, then we give you way too much credit.

          • wayne reid

            Who said anything about free? I said he didn’t get his 20 million guarantee

          • Herman Santos

            I tend not to mind other people’s money. 1. I don’t see any of it, so why even talk about it and 2. Many times what you read on the internet is inaccurate or only partially true. So why bother?

          • wayne reid

            Lol You do mind other’s ppl $ because you mentioned the fact that Manny got his money from the Ppv which is why I replied in my post that he didn’t get his usual guarantee

          • Herman Santos

            Actually what I said was “Manny made his money…” which is to say he is more than satisfied. You said that he didn’t make “$20 million”. There’s a difference. I am saying the man got paid for his performance. You said he didn’t make a certain amount. I am finished talking about figures you and I are truly ignorant about. Unless of corse you work for Manny’s his personal accountant.

          • wayne reid

            Ward & Kov got paid for their performance too? If he didn’t make his guarantee he didn’t make his money bud Do you work for Manny also? How do you know Manny is more than satisfied?

          • Herman Santos

            Because Manny said he is happy with his promoter and all that Bob is doing for him. Personally, I would expect more from Bob, but thats me looking on from the outside.

    • Ryan Howard

      HBO wanted the Manny fight, they just wanted him to pick a different date since they knew it would hurt the numbers for Kov/Ward. I don’t think they ever expected the fight would do better, they know Manny is a bigger draw

      • Herman Santos

        Then run both events and make more than twice the money. Instead they tanked poorly.

  • PrinceGian

    Not too surprised. None of the sports bars or clubs were interested in picking it up here in Australia. No one seemed interested.

    • Turner Wednesday

      You have television in Australia?!

      • left hook

        Lol

  • Kwame Johnson

    GGG did the same numbers fighting Lemieux, which isn’t his most potentially lucrative fight. Ward fights his most potentially lucrative fight and it flops. There were radio commercials on mainstream radio stations; the fight was hyped up as fuck and did Lemieux/GGG numbers 😂😂😂

    Does Ward’s PPV potential go up from here (in light of the gift he got against Kovalev)?

    • Robert Archambault

      This fight was actually the first time I received a promotional email from my cable provider to promote a PPV event. So yeah, it was heavily promoted even here in Canada.

    • Kudos

      As much on Kovalev as it is Ward. However the payment discrepancy between the two fighters was a joke. Given that Kovalev was champ and has a good sized fan base of his own.

      • Kwame Johnson

        It’s more on Ward in my opinion. The American boxing market is bigger than Russia’s. Also, Kovalev doesn’t have professional football and basketball players coming to his matches like Ward does.

      • Orca

        Did you see the car interview with Ward when he was saying something like……..’the rematch will happen if Kovs team understand that things have changed. I’m the champ now so things will be different. Negotiations will be in my favour.’ That just blows my mind. He gets more money, home advantage, 3 American judges, biased ref and a gift decision when challenging for the title. Does he want Kovalev to tickle his balls and read him a goodnight story for the rematch? Ridiculous.

        • Cousin Strawberry

          Lol true

        • Herman Santos

          Yeah, you mean they didn’t go your way the first time?

          • Orca

            Come on man, you think that’s fair? My way? I’m a fan of boxing first and foremost. I want the best fighter to win. Yeah, I’m not a fan of wards style or his diva attitude to negotiations but I’d be more than willing to give him props if he deserved to beat Kovalev though. He didn’t though, not in my eyes. I’m glad your happy things went ‘your’ way though sunshine 🙂 Let’s hope it goes boxings way in the rematch and we get a fair fight and decision.

          • Herman Santos

            Agreed.

    • Herman Santos

      Excellent points Kwame!!!

    • Who has better PPV #’s?
      Canelo?
      Then who after that?
      Keep in mind, Canelo’s #’s dropped to the point that he HAD to face 3G.

  • donkey_kong

    I tried buying this fight on my HBO Now subscription but couldn’t. Then spent an hour trying to find a bar that was going to show it here in Dallas. No one was advertising it. Tweeted a few places and ended up finding one low-rated bar that had it.

    After giving up trying to watch it live, someone uploaded it on YouTube the next morning so I watched it then.

    HBO better get its head out of its ass if it plans on relying on 1980s cable technology to make money with boxing. No wonder they’re losing profitability on the sport. Lower the price and allow people to buy it streaming online. More customers means more revenue and total profit but margins would be lower. so what. This is econ 101.

    • Stephen M

      Exactly. Build the fan base with a low cost product. Like Ford did with the model T. I wouldn’t think twice about spending 20$. 70$ ? There isn’t enough there and there is always the chance of a dud, a 30 second ko of the fighter I like or a robbery, no thanks.

    • Ciscostudent561

      Yup i made a similiar.. post… ill quote myself… “Speaking of PPV,
      In this day and age of streaming, do we have to use PPV? Why don’t the big stables get like their own app and market it. Throw the app on your Amazon fire, your Apple TV, Roku…etc.. the app is free, and gives you past matches for free as well. But live broadcasts cost, idk $30… you have no middle men to worry about since its your app. Outside maybe Amazon or Apple and even then would take a minor cut. I dont get this backwards PPV model.”

  • RL Stecher

    I would point to several driving factors for low numbers: weak undercards, too pricey, too easy to steam it for free if you find a link or watch it on youtube next day, Ward can make just about any fight ugly with his clinching and defensive style, and fans getting burned one too many times with mismatches, bad decisions and boring fights. This bad decision that went in ward’s favor won’t help future PPV events.

    • Pietey Trenton

      … and Christmas around the corner, I know it kept me from the pub.

  • manadon23 .

    But remember guys Ward is a big star, that’s why he got the gift decision right? Because he is so much of a big name, big star? It was his first time fighting in Vegas but the judges were instantly swayed. He had never fought in vegas but somehow had enough pull to get that “gift” right…Guess this makes sense right 🤔😏…

    • Julio

      There is currently no American superstar with the retirement of Floyd. The powers that be weren’t going to allow a foreigner to trump the American in this scenario.

      • Kudos

        I agree, there was an element(not American fans btw) that was concerned about how a lot of foreign fighters are breaking into P4P status.

        • Herman Santos

          They better stop putting the business of Boxing in front of the entertainment value. That worked for awhile for 1Boxer but in working for him, it forces all other Boxers to knuckle up and fight. If they even smell a hint of Floyd’s style, they’re waiting until its free.

      • Herman Santos

        Again, we agree.

    • Orca

      It’s not what Ward has done for Vegas, it’s what they hope he will do in the future. There’s a gap there since Floyd left and a lot of people are hoping Ward is the replacement. Good luck with that! Anyway, I’m not saying that the fix was in, incompetence is just as easy to blame. I thought the predicted ppv figures were far too optimistic. I thought around 180-200k would be more realistic. The rematch may do more if it happens right away but still under 300k. I get no cut of their money so I don’t really give a sh!t. Attracting casuals has become a lot harder since UFC hit it’s stride. It’s really obvious that Ward is following the Mayweather boxing business school and I don’t think that’s a good thing for the fans.

      • Herman Santos

        School him Orca!!

    • Herman Santos

      Yes, that makes perfect sense. Regardless of your sarcasm. This is another reason PPV has tanked. Bogus decisions. Why else would a pro Ward crowd and 80% of attending Boxing journalists and professional fights all indicate Ward lost. Because he did. And he lost in front of the whole world. Brings to mind the old saying “Don’t piss in the wind and tell me it’s raining”. The average consumer can’t be gotten over on like he could be in the past even if some choose to belivevwhat they want to beliveve.

  • SOLID!!! BRICK BY BRICK!!!

    So which is it did ggg do 150,000 or 97,000 or somewhere in between???

    Anyway all the boxing media, boxing pundits & so called hardcore fans that masterbated & raved about this fight & the fact that a fight of this level & magnitude is happening & this is the outcome

    Regardless of wards so called none popularity & boring style or kov being mostly unknown for the most part it still was supposedly the biggest & best fight to be made in boxing right now & in the last 10 yrs

    Regardless of roc nation & main events not promoting it well & regardless of the outcome of the fight & the decision this was a gift for the true boxing fans

    All the trash ppvs & pump faking by Mayweather all of the mismatches we finally get a real fight & this is the outcome

    And dont be coming up with stupid reasons or blaming ward because in all honesty most of you’ll been shitting on ward & claiming he wasnt a draw at all & couldn’t draw flies to shit for years but everybody loved this fight with a passion so that shouldn’t have mattered

    Hopefully those arent the full numbers but if they are the true boxing fans or the hardcores are fucking frauds at least alot of them

    And alot of respected boxing media heads have been exposed especially a few on this sight as pure frauds

    • RL Stecher

      But when you think about it, why should fans care how well a PPV fight sells? It was Mayweather who created this trend of ranking fighters by their PPV numbers. This certainly wasn’t the biggest or best fight in the last ten years, not by a long shot. It was hyped as such by some in the media and some fans, but that doesn’t represent the majority.

      Bottom line, boxers are still going to fight even if PPV sales plummet to a high of 500K sales. Right now it will be very difficult to build a new PPV attraction in the U.S. because there isn’t enough competition at the weight classes that Gonzalez, GGG, Ward, and Wilder fight, so without enough compelling fights, no big numbers. I think even Loma will have trouble getting past 300K in his career because there won’t be enough big names to match him up against and he doesn’t speak English. Persona and charisma go a long way in selling fights.

      • Orca

        The fact Wilder is nowhere near ppv status speaks volumes. A charismatic, good looking, American heavyweight Champ with a huge punch. Nobody really knows the guy. Someone , somewhere needs to be fired…….or perhaps boxing is struggling a little at present.

        • RL Stecher

          The problem for Wilder is that there aren’t any big names to fight at HW besides Klitschko and Fury, and it doesn’t look like Wilder is in a big hurry to fight them and vice-versa. Wilder will suffer from the Larry Holmes syndrome, where you have a talented HW without a big name opponent to launch his career to the next level. To add further insult, Klitschko is at the end of his career and his last few fights have been snore-fests. Fury is done, and Joshua remains the only rising star. I don’t think Ortiz is going to make a big splash with the casual fan based on his last performance.

    • Orca

      I wouldn’t say they are frauds. 70 bucks is a lot of money for some people. Plus many fans expected it to be an ugly fight, which it was at times. Surely 39.99 should be the max. That’s a fair price for the big fights. I would gladly have paid that for a high quality stream from HBO. They are really missing a trick not launching a worldwide ppv online service.

  • IRISHBOXING NUT STEVIE

    the fight was free on sky in Ireland

    • Kudos

      What channel?

      • IRISHBOXING NUT STEVIE

        sky sports 1

  • Michel Desgrottes

    PPV model is not worth having, you have to build these fighters to the masses first

  • RayK

    I couldn’t imagine paying $70 once a month for a shit card.Unless I had a lot of disposable income cos lets face it, streaming is a pain in the ass but some things are better watched live.

  • Antoni Valencia

    Im wouldn’t say im a casual fan and not on the level of a hardcore fan but that fight finally made me throw in the towel, pun intended. I will no longer pay 70 bucks and probably not even 50 anymore for ppv events anymore.

    Reading through the comments i completely agree that boxing undercards on ppv cards are a joke. You get better cards on regular HBO and they are pretty frquent. Paying 70 for really one fight is crazy and the potential for an early fight probably keep people away. Everything in the world is just getting too expensive when you have real life shit to worry about. Its supposed to be entertainment for us fans but when you have to pro vs con the money spent on the fight, food, beverages and whatever else you pass.

    There actually was some free fights before the ppv card.

    Another thing and maybe its just me but there just doesnt seem to be a checks and balances if you will with boxing. Im not bias on this fight. Im from the bay area so i didnt mind a ward win but i have really come to enjoy the product that kovalev delivers in a combat sport. That being said in my eyes, and alot of other people in the profession at the fight other than the judges, thought kovalev won. But the is no committee or chairman or anything in the hundreds of different boxing organizations that can come out and maybe review the fight or have a panel of seperate judges review and say “they got it wrong”. Now i know you dont want to go stepping over the actual fight judges but human error is human error and sometimes you have to own up to it. Other sports have it like that and they will come out and own up to missed calls and what not and even though doesnt change the outcome it just lets you know someone out there is policing this shit. Boxing doesnt and i feel like they got there money and who cares about the result.

    Thats why im out. No more ppv for me. Ill wait a week to watch or just go online once its over for the results

    • Skyler

      I pretty much decided the same thing this year. Plus, if you just wait until the fight is over, it’s already on Youtube.

  • JA

    I ordered the fight as I criticized all the mismatches and crap fights being made. I wanted to support an important fight and I’m a huge Kovalev fan and I admire Ward. Then the decision was announced and I felt used and abused all over again. The one friend I could talk into coming over chuckled and said “That guy (Ward) did not win.”. Oh well, I’ve been in this abusive relationship since the late 80s, I’m sure I’ll be back for the next one because next time is always different, right?

  • JA

    I ordered the fight as I criticized all the mismatches and crap fights being made. I wanted to support an important fight and I’m a huge Kovalev fan and I admire Ward. Then the decision was announced and I felt used and abused all over again. The one friend I could talk into coming over chuckled and said “That guy (Ward) did not win.”. Oh well, I’ve been in this abusive relationship since the late 80s, I’m sure I’ll be back for the next one because next time is always different, right?

  • shawn

    Superstars in boxing, is what pulls in casual fans and on the buss… side of the coin, I bet that’s two thirds of the fans that show up at lets say a bar to watch.

    Most bars wont show a fight unless the numbers make sense, ie Walters v Loma was a huge fight to me ( hardcore) most casual’s dont even know who they are. I could go on for 3 hours but why bother.

    • Robert Archambault

      Here in Montreal, the sports bars will show every PPV event, MMA or boxing, as well as most other fights. No cover charge, no minimum amount of money to spend, totally free. If you are able to nurse one beer or other drink for the entire evening – and I have friends who can do just that – that is all it will cost you to watch a fight.

      • Skyler

        I can only dream. The only time bars show PPV in Houston is if its Canelo or Mayweather is fighting. Even then there aren’t many who do it any more.

        • Dee Money

          Pretty much the same in So Cal. 6-7 years ago I could find a few bars showing any given PPV; now only Canelo (and even thats not all the time). I asked a sports bar owner once why, they said most boxing PPVs charges a LOT more for bars to show than MMA, and they just can’t turn that big of a profit. I wonder if this is so.

          • JV316

            the dave and busters in hollywood and dames n games in dtla are the only LA places i know that show all boxing ppvs pretty much regardless of how obscure, i think for $10 cover. not a lot of options. dames n games is a good spot.

        • Robert Archambault

          We are a very sports centric city especially combat sports, soccer and hockey. Mainly due to having the best hockey team in history, great local fighters to cheer for over the years and a very diverse population I guess. There must be dozens of sports bars around town and they all have multiple big screens showing a number of different events at the same time. You just find a table in the area where what you want to watch happens to be on. Some bars will even open in the early morning hours for breakfast if there is a big important soccer game playing, such as during the Euro Cup or World Cup competitions.
          .
          And there is NEVER a cover charge as it is illegal to charge for entry to watch a televised sporting event in a bar. Bars that normally have a cover charge to get in will not have to change that, however. Many bars that serve food tend to have a limited menu for big events as they are so busy and serving their regular menu would be difficult.

      • D Johnson

        Love your city.

        • Robert Archambault

          So do I! Of course we can always find things to complain and bitch about. Many complaints are justified such as the terrible condition of our roads and the city seeming to be constantly under repair or construction, constant language battles, stupid students demonstrating over ridiculous things… but hey… things could be a hell of a lot worse!
          I LOVE MONTREAL! 🙂

      • TMT NYC-DA REAL GHOSTBUSTERS

        Monsieur, what about strip joints? Do they have cover charge? Or have strip joints been banned now in Truedough’s Canada?

        • Robert Archambault

          Very few strip clubs have a cover charge, none in the downtown core anyways. Those rare clubs that do tend to have feature dancers, a touring stripper, putting on a show a few times a night. This is rarely seen in Montreal clubs these days but was common in years past. You will be expected to tip the doorman and to check your coat in the fall and winter seasons however.
          Clubs with cover charges are usually ‘full service’ style of clubs that are considerably outside of the city of Montreal.

          • Orca

            Ha, I did not expect to see such a detailed, concise reply to that question.

          • Charlie Underbite

            Lmao!

          • wayne reid

            Lol Rob’s gotta find a way to let off steam besides the Forum

          • Charlie Underbite

            I’d hate to see what he does to his wife or girlfriend. Angry dude.

          • Charlie Underbite

            Wayne, who’s the girl in the picture?

          • wayne reid

            I could tell you it’s my girl but that would be a lie lol but nah just a friend that won Bikini contest 2 yrs ago

          • Charlie Underbite

            Damn. She’s hot.

          • Charlie Underbite

            Wayne, who’s the girl in the picture?

          • Robert Archambault

            LOLOL. Let’s say I spent a lot of time in the company of some of Montreal’s finest ecdysiasts. Almost married one or two of them over the years, too! Normal women are so dull and boring in comparison! 🙂

          • Cousin Strawberry

            Lol

          • Julio

            Ah you little devil…LOL.

          • TMT NYC-DA REAL GHOSTBUSTERS

            ‘Full service’. I like the sound of that. Heh heh.

          • Robert Archambault

            Nah. Really overpriced. Much better value hiring one of Montreal’s finest escorts for an hour. 🙂

      • shawn

        Dude i’m a bit jealous ; got a hunch it could be that way, also in the UK ? (Lots of boxing fans there)
        In most areas in the United States a bar wants a ( ie) Canelo, prime Pac or Mayweather, prime Tyson not Fury ( Mike) Superstar that everyone knows before they spend the cash for the fight. I spoke to many bar owners and mgrs in Florida and if their being truthful its extreamly expensive to carrie HBO and or PPV’S.

        • Robert Archambault

          Here in Quebec I do not believe there is much, if any, difference in the rates a commercial establishment pays for their cable access when compared to a home user. Just about every bar in the city has at least a couple of screens operating and sports bars usually have a much bigger number. Even strip clubs often have a couple of screens over the bar showing the hockey games during hockey season.
          It’s worth it for a bar to pay for cable as it always brings in a few extra clients and keeps some around a bit longer to see the end of a game and order one last beer or even a coffee before leaving.
          If a local boxer is fighting, even on an undercard, you will see a decent crowd in most bars to watch. A UFC PPV usually guarantees a line at the door to get in and larger sports bars will gladly take reservations for major events, especially for larger groups.

          • shawn

            Strip clubs showin sporting events ( nice ).
            I got a tip from a boxing fan at this smoked rib joint where I had lunch ( lookin 4 Walters v Loma ) he told me to check out this wing resturant that sometimes plays boxing matches.
            All the girls there were beautiful and wearing little booty shorts ( Not Hooters ).
            I was thinking man thats going to be very distractin trying to watch this fight here, with that sweet 20 something year old perfect booty walking around.

            Are you in Montreal or Quebec ?

            Anyhow both sounds like great sport towns.

          • Robert Archambault

            I’m in Montreal and I noticed this week that they will be opening a Hooters in the middle of downtown, on the main bar street in town, Crescent Street. I have a feeling it won’t last long in this city where beautiful women are everywhere and in summer time usually wearing less clothing on the street than the girls who work in that place. And restaurants with great food and good prices are everywhere. We usually don’t go for corporate gimmicks, Planet Hollywood tried here and lasted a couple of years before closing their doors. LOL
            .
            But yeah, Montreal is a great sports town, especially during the hockey playoffs or the Canadian Grand Prix. Or just about any major event, even those that are only on television like the World Cup.

          • shawn

            I understand your country a little bit, I was married to a French girl from Quebec for a short while, she never understood American strip clubs or the more modest things in the States.

            Maybe Hooters could adjust their bus.. model slightly in Montreal as opposed to the Untied States.
            Thinking maybe ill visit your town next summer, sounds like a fun town.

          • Robert Archambault

            There is actually a Hooters on the south shore of Montreal and it seems to be doing OK business from what I hear, never been there myself, but that is a very different area from the downtown core. I doubt they will change their policies to suit Montreal, however. Grand Prix week next year should be interesting though, because the new location is on the street that closes for the GP festivities that week and the girls out on the street pushing various products are usually wearing less than Hooters girls do at work! LOL

            .

            If you do come to Montreal for a visit, I would suggest visiting during the Jazz Festival or the Just for Laughs comedy fest. Both have tons of free outdoor shows and the music during the Jazz Fest is amazing and not limited to just Jazz. The Grand Prix week is also a guaranteed great time but expect to pay inflated prices for everything from a room to meals and especially drinks at any bar or club close to the main celebrations. Great week but a total exploitation festival.

            If you do come up, give me a heads up and I will be more than happy to point you to a few web sites that will provide all the info you could ever need on our various festivals and summer long parties. And as next year is the 375th anniversary celebrations for the city, a good time will be easy to find!

            http://montrealgazette.com/tag/montreals-375-anniversary

            http://www.375mtl.com/en/

          • shawn

            Been hitin the beaches down here in sunny Florida, whomever invented bikini’s (assumin a guy ) is a great man.

            I love comedy and Canadians are funny as hell.

            Alright then, if I make a trip up next summer, I will forsure have few questions for ya, thanks bro, your alright man.

          • Robert Archambault

            My pleasure! Always ready to help someone out with some information for when they visit our beautiful city! Enjoy Florida you lucky bastard! Have a cold one on the beach for me and ogle a bikini or two while you’re at it! 🙂

          • shawn

            Ill say hello to Clearwater beach for ya, if it say hello back ill stop drinking.
            Thanks again !

          • shawn

            Ill say hello to Clearwater beach for ya, if it say hello back ill stop drinking.
            Thanks again !

  • Joe Abba

    All these comments. Some actually happy about this doing poor business. Unreal. How many of you actually paid for this fight? Well, there’s your answer.

    • Herman Santos

      Not sure folks are “happy” the PPV tanked. I think it’s more, these poor results should cause some to wake up and require/produce more and better before the whole thing tanks.

      • Charlie Underbite

        Styles make fights and while Ward’s style may not be very pleasing, the fact is you had two top 5 pound for pound guys in their primes taking each other on. If any fight deserved PPV it was this one.

        • Herman Santos

          But apparently it didn’t. What deserves PPV in this climate is two well known top 10 fighters with solid offensive skills. Anyone with a style remotely close to Floyd’s is just not going to do well. People are just not going to invest in more holding and running. Unfortunately Andre did a lot of that in this fight.

          • Charlie Underbite

            Agree with that, Santos.

  • Kudos

    There’s been to many PPV’s, Crawford v Postol. Canelo v Smith. Manny V Vargas etc

    • Charlie Underbite

      Kov/Ward was the only justifiable one.

      • Herman Santos

        Whats justifiable is determined from a value perspective. Ward is not very valuable from a revenue perspective. And the way he “won” his last fight reinforced this perception. Really, what did Ward do to clearly win the fight? Did he score a knock out. NO. Did he land more punches NO. Did he score a knock down. NO. Did he beat up his opponent more than his opponent beat up on him No. With all of those nos, would you pay $70 to see some other fighter under the aforementioned circumstances fight again? NO. However, I would pay to see Lomo fight a top 10 fighter. And pretty much everyone else would too.

  • Charlie Underbite

    Off topic but jeeeeez…Can we get a GGG fight announcement??? Jacobs is clearly scared. Maybe it’s time to move on, Loeffler.

    • Orca

      Yeah, he’s gotta keep the momentum going. I like that he’s a busy champ. I hope we get some kind of unification in 2017, then canelo then perhaps move up.

  • FMaria Aragon

    Here in the Philippines PPV is dirt cheap for matches of not so popular fighters. Khan v Canelo, GGG v Brook & Ward v Kovalev – were sold at USD 4.00 per event. Oftentimes the PPVs are bundled with local boxing events to entice buyers.

    The UFC model learned from boxings mistakes and is still growing in popularity at a rapid rate. MMA will eentually overtake the sweet science.

  • FMaria Aragon

    I agree with Herman. By snubbing their former ‘attraction’ (Pacquiao) HBO paid a costly price. Ward Kova PPV numbers could have improved if they aired Mannys fight too and used it to further promote W v K.

    Why they could have even bundled the 2 fights if they are so concerned about the money being spent by their buyers.

  • Al Ramos

    I laughed upon knowing kov vs Ward did only 160k. HBO despite many years of experience got wrong on their decision. I thought their full out on PAC vs Vargas would affect the ppv numbers but it didn’t because Arum was right because the event live up to arums expectation and arum investment was successful. HBO thought pacman is pacman no more. Now it means pacman and still remain the men in boxing. No one beat pacman this year in ppv numbers. He has more than 400k plus in April and 300k plus last November 5. He deserves to be a fighter of the year award considing the money he generated for the sport of boxing. Despite having been despised by Americans fans, media, floyd fans with regards to the match up but was able to emerge on top in terms of ppv numbers. Pacman vs Floyd 2 I’m excited.

    • Herman Santos

      I agree with just about everything you said until you said Manny should be FOTY because of his ‘PPV numbers’. I am a huge fan of Manny’s fighting style, attitude and approach to the sport. That said, PPV generation and fight accomplishments are two very different things. I think some have confused the two in the past and with past fighters.

  • Donald Trump

    And the rematch will do half as many now that people know the judges are all affirmative action stooges

  • Raffy Ricohermoso Ver

    When I saw that Pacquiao vs. Vargas did 300k buys I thought that was dissapointoing for PAC, plus Vargas was a hot prospect (being multiple champion). Then I saw Ward vs. Kovavlev (160k) and I was like wow!

    • Herman Santos

      Yeah, puts things in perspective. Is it telling us, that relatively speaking Manny is still one of biggest draws out there (obviously) or is it telling us that people are just sick and tired of the Floyd experience. Ward is seen as the 2nd coming of Mayweather. The consumer has spoken.

      Meanwhile, the consumer is becoming very exciting stykesnof Roman and Lomo. Put Lomo, Roman and 3G on the same card against good well known comp, that will Sell all day long.

  • Autosmell

    160k??? Ha ha ha ha ha!!! I told all you hos Kov aint bout shit!!!

  • MAXeMO MAXeMO

    The top reason’s who killed boxing : BOB ARUM
    PACQUIAO vs MAYWEATHER fight
    AL HAYMAN
    PRESIDENT’S of wbc,wba,ibf,wbo
    OSCAR DE LA HOYA
    HBO BOXING
    SHOWTIME BOXING
    KATHY DUVA
    ROC NATION
    EDDIE HEARN
    DON KING………did I leave anybody out ?
    Show less