BOXING AFTER DARK

Hey Doug, just wanted to get your final prediction on the Curtis Stevens vs David Lemieux fight.

I’m surprised so many are favoring Lemieux in this one. He has a higher work rate and is a taller, longer man but I see this one being fought on the inside and not going to the cards. Stevens also can’t cut off the ring but that won’t be a factor either. I also think Stevens holds his hands up higher to protect himself while he’s hooking and is the better counter puncher.

Am I missing something? Why is the Cerebral Assassin such an odds underdog?

Mythical Matchups:

James Toney vs Carlos Monzon

Roberto Duran vs Terry Norris

Ricardo Mayorga vs Donald Curry

Also, fun question: If you were getting harassed by a gang of meatheads in a bar and had to fight your way out of it, which three boxers living or dead would you want to have your back? I think I’d like Duran, Toney, and Dempsey. Then I’d buy them all beers afterwords for kicking ass and saving mine. – Jack

Dude, unless you’re talking about a gang of 50 meatheads, you’d only need one of those badasses to have your back.

I’m gonna go with Vince Phillips, Micky Ward and Arturo Gatti because I think they’d be more fun to drink with before and after the interruption from the idiots. Duran, Toney and Dempsey are legendary fighters but they could also be rather surly when drunk. Cool Vince, Irish Micky and Thunder were inhumanly tough, always willing to scrap in the prize ring, and didn’t shy from partying outside it but were usually chill when among friends.

Regarding tomorrow night’s HBO Boxing After Dark middleweight showdown, I’m not sure why Lemieux is such a big favorite among hardcore fans. I view this fight as an even-money matchup. I really can’t pick a winner with much confidence. But if you put a gun to my head and made me choose, I’d have to go with Stevens. I think Lemieux’s forward marching aggression and sometimes wide combo-punching could play into his faster, counter-punching hands.

Why aren’t other fans and media viewing it like us? I have no idea. Maybe they’re just suckers for a Montrealer/French accent, a cleft chin and trendy “undercut” hairstyle. Why is Stevens the decided betting underdog against Lemieux? I think it comes down to a couple factors: 1. Stevens looked like crap in his last outing (vs. James De La Rosa) on the Kovalev-Ward HBO PPV undercard (while Lemmy looked like a monster the last time U.S. fans saw him – vs. Glen Tapia on the Canelo-Khan undercard – although, while he dominated Cristian Fabian Rios in his last bout, he didn’t look like Dick Tiger going 10 with the tough gatekeeper). 2. They’re playing that silly mind game where you rate fighters based on their performances against common opponents and Lemieux beat Ndou, who outpointed Stevens, so they’re going on that funky math and maybe forgetting that styles make fights.

Anyway, I don’t care to overanalyze this fight. I just want to watch it and enjoy the action as it happens. We can dissect the damn thing when it’s over.

Your Mythical Matchups:

James Toney vs Carlos Monzon – Monzon on points (especially if contested at the 15-round distance) in a very good and competitive fight. (Mickey Rourke, who used to spar with Toney and was so fascinated with Monzon that he visited the Argentine legend in jail and bought the rights to his life story, disagrees with my opinion.)

Roberto Duran vs Terry Norris – Duran by late KO in an intense, fast-paced chess match. The fire in Norris’ belly would ultimately cost him against Hands of Stone.

Ricardo Mayorga vs Donald Curry – The Lone Star Cobra, in his prime, would have starched Mayorga silly. As tough, awkward, hard-punching and crafty as the Nicaraguan was, I can’t envision him lasting more than four rounds with Curry at his best.

IT TAKES TWO

Atlas Douged,
I tried for the mailbag with this one when the announcement for the venue came out. Same week they announced Chavez-Canelo so clearly my timing sucks. Hopefully, I make this weeks, being it’s a bit more timely.

So the moment the Lemieux-Stevens fight was announced, I was pumped. BUT! When the venue was announced I went full on Ric Flair running around the house “woo”ing it up. As a canucklehead I was a bit worried that this one would wind up in Montreal (where it really belongs) and I’d have to fork out a fair handful for upper bowl seats. But Turning Stone. My saviour. That place has become a Mecca for my wife and I over the last three years. We saw Provo-Matthysee and Provo-Molina there in the floor seats for $50 a pop. That’s insane! I got us front row seats for this upcoming amazing fight for …. $75 a pop. Woo!!!!

Long story long, we honestly adore the place (even if going there reminds us how hard life is for a lot of Americans ‘cause man that’s a poor area). So what’s your favorite boonies boxing venue? Personally, I love Turning Stone because it’s a) affordable, b) always full of actual fight fans and c) accessible for the fans; I high-fived Provo as he walked into the ring only to turn around a be face to face with Rocky Martinez fresh after his brawl with Siri the week before then went back to my seat to sit next to HBO’s Russian interpreter and his wife. Cannot wait for this weekend!!!

WOOOOOO!!!! – StoicLoic

Damn dude, you are a serious boxing geek, but it’s all good. You’re one of the geeks who actually fork out money to be at live boxing events, so you’re OK by me. I’m glad Turning Stone Casino in Verona, New York, makes helps to make for affordable events for you and your wife to travel to.

I’ve only heard good things about that venue. Steve Kim, who’s been to major (and not-so major) fights all over the continental U.S., says Turning Stone’s arena and casino/hotel are quality. That’s enough for me. I wish I could be there this weekend, but I’ll eventually make my way there.

Regarding my favorite venues, in no particular order: the Mandalay Bay Events Center (it’s big but cozy and it’s where I witnessed a lot of modern classics, like Barrera-Morales I and Corrales-Castillo I, and special moments, like Tarver KOing Jones Jr., so I’m a bit biased), The Forum (again, I’ve got sweet memories of fight cards during the venue’s Forum Boxing days – when it was still The Great Western Forum – so I’m biased, but it’s also been renovated very well by it’s new owners, Madison Square Garden, and it’s literally 10 minutes from my house), MSG (there’s nothing like watching a major boxing event at a packed Garden), and StubHub Center (when the weather is right).

CAN’T BEAT THE BIG MEN

Sup Dougie,

Hope all is well mate. It’s been a while since I wrote in but couldn’t miss the opportunity following the David Haye v Tony Bellew fight last week. Granted it wasn’t the purest fight in terms of technical skills, nor was it Gatti v Ward in terms of blood and thunder, but what it did have in spades was drama. Was it a bigger fight internationally than Thurman/Garcia? No, but I would rather watch the Haye v Bellew fight again ten times than Thurman v Garcia once. Great heart and desire shown and my non-boxing mates were enthralled.

What do you make of Bellew’s options moving forward, assuming he doesn’t retire? He’s called out Wilder and Parker whilst Dillian Whyte has called him out. Despite the size differences I would give Tony a better shot at beating Wilder than the other two. I think Parker is too fundamentally sound and punches hard down the middle, which Bellew would struggle to avoid, whilst Whyte would pile on the pressure in what would be a great scrap. Wilder is all over the place technically and I would give Bellew a chance at getting inside those wide swinging shots and putting it on Deontay.

Looking forward to Lemieux v Stevens this weekend. My money is going on Lemieux by KO in 6. They both carry real power and both tend to avoid the jab and go looking for hooks, but for me Lemieux carries the more explosive power and will take the smaller man out mid-exchange. Who you got?

Lastly, I’ve got tickets for AJ v Klitschko and I cannot wait. There were 20,000 in the O2 on Saturday and there’ll be 90,000 in Wembley on April 29th – the atmosphere is going to be INSANE! Are you going to be making it over?

MM – Mike Tyson v David Haye at Cruiser if Iron Mike could shed the 20lbs.

Keep up the good work mate. – Mike, England

If Tyson could get down to 200 pounds without hurting himself (which I seriously doubt), I think he’d decapitate The Hayemaker in one or two rounds.

I won’t be making it over to the U.K. for Joshua-Klitschko but I do hope to travel there at least once before 2017 is out. To be honest, I wish I could travel to the Linares-Crolla rematch in Manchester later this month. I’ve been inside Manchester Arena for an anticipated fight (Frampton-Quigg) and the atmosphere was amazing despite the main event being a dud. I can’t imagine how electric it must be if the main event delivers, and Linares-Crolla seems to be a good mesh of styles.

One of these days, I hope to cover a fight that attracts 90,000 fans – I don’t care where in the world (though Wembley would be cool). Maybe we’ll get lucky and GGG-Canelo will land at AT&T Stadium in Texas.

Regarding Bellew-Haye, I hear what you’re saying. It wasn’t high on the charts in terms of technique or bout significance but it delivered drama and a lot heart, which is what attracts most casual fans to the sport.

What do you make of Bellew’s options moving forward, assuming he doesn’t retire? I think he has Eddie Hearn make a serious bid for a shot at Deontay Wilder’s WBC crown or he waits around to see if Haye can recover and considers a rematch with his countryman. I’d be shocked if he ever fought at cruiserweight again.

He’s called out Wilder and Parker whilst Dillian Whyte has called him out. Despite the size differences I would give Tony a better shot at beating Wilder than the other two. I don’t give him much of a shot against any of them, but I’m thinking that he can take more advantage of Whyte’s relative inexperience than he can of Wilder’s sloppy technique.

I think Parker is too fundamentally sound and punches hard down the middle, which Bellew would struggle to avoid, whilst Whyte would pile on the pressure in what would be a great scrap. You’re probably right.

Wilder is all over the place technically and I would give Bellew a chance at getting inside those wide swinging shots and putting it on Deontay. Yeah, but isn’t that story will all of Wilder’s opponents? And then he drops the bomb.

Looking forward to Lemieux v Stevens this weekend. Me too. Anyone not looking forward to this fight is a wuss and I’m going to give them an atomic wedgie whenever I see them.

My money is going on Lemieux by KO in 6. They both carry real power and both tend to avoid the jab and go looking for hooks, but for me Lemieux carries the more explosive power and will take the smaller man out mid-exchange. Hmmmm, it seems to me that Stevens is more likely to clip Lemieux during an exchange than the other way around. Lemmy tends to square up when he’s in range to swing those heavy fists, and he’s there to be jabbed or nailed with overhand power shots. In fact, the rugged and awkward gatekeeper he faced in his last bout (Cristian Rios) hurt him with an overhand left (from a southpaw stance) at the end of Round 2. Rios nailed him with clean shots sporadically throughout the 10 rounder (though not enough to win rounds, obviously), and he bugged the Montreal star with a pawing jab and lateral movement. I think Stevens’ best bet is to stick Lemmy with a stiff jab and maneuver him into counter-punch traps, and believe Lemmy’s key to victory is to back the Brooklynite to the ropes and wear him down with body work. But Lemieux will have to be careful (as GGG was) while applying pressure. He’ll need to jab and bob-and-weave his way in or he could get caught.

Who you got? I really don’t know, which is part of the reason I’m so into the matchup.

CHOCOLATITO V SRISAKET

Hey Dougie,

I just watched Srisaket v Cuadras & must say it seems like the Thai guy was coming on strong & the stoppage benefited Carlos most. I think Gonzalez should pull it out but take some lumps for the second fight in a row. How do you think it plays out?

I can’t believe some stans call him a duck for not taking the immediate rematch. Move up in weight, fight the champ & #1 contender in your first defense.

I see Cuadras & Estrada taking fairly light fights in the meantime. Do you think Chocolatito can get to 50 straight wins? Seems like he may have to fight this guy March 18, Cuadras, Estrada & Inoue consecutively to avoid being called a duck..  Great work as always. Thanks … Jamaal, Louisiana

Thanks for sharing your thoughts on a fight that a lot of hardcore fans are sleeping on, Jamaal.

You’re absolutely correct that Srisaket (AKA Wisaksil Wangek) was competitive during his WBC 115-pound title loss to Cuadras in May 2014, and that the Thai veteran was coming on at the time of the stoppage, after eight rounds, due to cuts Cuadras suffered from an accidental clash of heads. If not for the WBC’s rule to dock a point from the fighter who isn’t cut via accidental headbutt, Wangek would have been even on one of the official scorecards (and keep in mind the fight took place in Mexico City).

Wangek shouldn’t be viewed as a “tune-up” opponent for high-profile showdowns with Cuadras, Estrada or Inoue. He’s a badass. I view him as a smaller version of Takashi Miura (perhaps with a little more polish) because he’s a hard-nosed southpaw slugger who believes in his left hammer. He’s a former champ, still in his prime (30) with a good record (41-4-1) and he’s the WBC mandatory. Nobody should dump on Chocolatito for taking this fight and nobody should give him s__t if he struggles a bit.

And given the hard fight Gonzalez is coming off and his habit of putting on a lot of weight between bouts, I think THE RING’s pound-for-pound king will have another hard fight on his heavy hands. I think he’ll win by decision or late stoppage but it won’t be easy.

I can’t believe some stans call him a duck for not taking the immediate rematch. Those fans are idiots. Please tell them I said that.

Move up in weight, fight the champ & #1 contender in your first defense. That’s how Chocolatito rolls.

Do you think Chocolatito can get to 50 straight wins? I think it’s certainly possible, but if he takes a loss facing Cuadras, Estrada or Inoue between now and his 50^th pro bout, I won’t view him any lesser than I do now provided he gives his all in a good fight (which we know he will).

Seems like he may have to fight this guy March 18, Cuadras, Estrada & Inoue consecutively to avoid being called a duck. Again, only a total f__kwit would call Gonzalez that.

LAST WEEKEND REVIEW

Some quick observations from the weekend…

-Garcia-Thurman was a huge letdown, no matter how the CBS team tried to frame it. It wasn’t a bad fight, but the fact that it was so hyped and on free TV-well, it needed to be better. It certainly wasn’t

Leonard-Hearns, hell it wasn’t even Curry-Starling.

-The Garcias are poor losers. But knowing Angel as we do, its not much of a surprise.

-Thurman should have to change his nickname. He’s not a true puncher, nor does he have a punchers mentality. He wants to move and use his quickness to win fights. That’s all well and good. But he shouldn’t carry himself like he’s Tommy freaking Hearns. “One Time” is the worst nickname since Joan “Little Tyson ” Guzman….

-I guess congrats go out to Tony Bellew, I mean he beat on a one legged guy who couldn’t plant his foot and barely maintained his balance. But Haye wasn’t dominating before he got hurt-an important distinction. I can’t see there being a rematch, at least not soon. Haye has to recover and let’s face it – Eddie Hearn has to ride the Bellew train while the going is good. Bellew can get clobbered by Wilder, Joshua/Wlad and still rematch Haye (if he’s able to recover) for yet another big payday down the road. I think he could upset Parker. I’m not a fan of the guy, but I think he’s in a great position, career wise. – Tom G.

Bellew’s doing alright for a guy who was written off by pretty much everyone after he was stopped by WBC light heavyweight champ Adonis Stevenson in late 2013 and failed look impressive during his hyped rematch against Nathan Cleverly at cruiserweight a year later.

Some fans and media can say he got “lucky” against Haye but I say he made his luck by taking the fight and hanging in there with the overwhelming favorite (without taking much punishment) until the Achilles injury occurred.

I think Parker would be a very dangerous opponent for Bellew, but I wouldn’t expect the Scouser to be intimidated in the slightest if that fight were made.

-Garcia-Thurman was a huge letdown, no matter how the CBS team tried to frame it. You weren’t expecting those two privileged, pampered and inactive PBC Players to let it all hang out and spill blood for 12 rounds like Orlando Salido and Francisco Vargas were you? The CBS crew were just doing their jobs and trying to take advantage of the huge audience they expected.

It wasn’t a bad fight, but the fact that it was so hyped and on free TV-well, it needed to be better. I agree, but at least it did peak at 5.1 million viewers, which is sensational. Hopefully some of the casual fans that tuned it weren’t bored or turned off by the lack of sustained action.

It certainly wasn’t Leonard-Hearns, hell it wasn’t even Curry-Starling. Bro, it wasn’t De La Hoya-Chavez II (and yes, that widely panned rematch did take place at welterweight with Oscar’s WBC belt on the line).

-The Garcias are poor losers. I think Danny handled the loss well and was respectful and professional during the post-fight press conference. Angel, well, yeah, he was a total cretin as usual.

-Thurman should have to change his nickname. To what? The Drive-By Shooter? The Wily Wizard? The Happy Hippie?

He’s not a true puncher, nor does he have a punchers mentality. He can punch. He just doesn’t have a puncher’s mentality any more. It happens, especially when power-hitters move up in class or weight.

He wants to move and use his quickness to win fights. That’s all well and good. But he shouldn’t carry himself like he’s Tommy freaking Hearns. I don’t think he carries himself like The Hitman. These days he talks more about being willing to challenge himself, not being afraid “to let his ‘0’ go,” than he does being about “KOs for life.”

“One Time” is the worst nickname since Joan “Little Tyson ” Guzman…. I liked the “Little Tyson” nickname for the wonderfully talented Dominican. He kind of looked like Mike and he could get guys out of there when he fought at 122 pounds.

THURMAN BLEW IT

What’s up Doug.

As always, wishing you the best. First of all I do agree that Thurman won the fight. Garcia just didn’t let his hands go enough. Thurman looked like his ego in the first 4 rounds. I was thinking “wow”, Keith is finally fighting up to his potential. Then the real Keith Thurman materialized. No two and three punch combinations and no aggressiveness. Thurman had a huge opportunity to make a statement for himself and be regarded as something special.

All in all the fight was a disappointment. Danny looked really average and didn’t let his hands go. I know styles make fights, but damn. Hopefully Errol Spence is everything these two aren’t. Keep up the good fight, Doug. You are appreciated. – Jeff from Tampa

Thanks Jeff.

My hunch is that Spence is not going to have much of a choice but to bring the fight and go for the knockout against Brook in the U.K. Part of that hunch is the fact that the Texas southpaw has a puncher’s mentality to go with world-class power and a better foundation than Thurman (or Garcia), and part of it is the likelihood that the British veteran is going to try to check his chin from the start of the fight.

It takes two to tango, and it also takes two not to tango. I think styles played a part in Thurman-Garcia fizzling to an extent. Garcia isn’t comfortable (or very effective) going after a mobile opponent and Thurman knew he could win with hit-and-run tactics, which is pretty good at executing. Against Shawn Porter, who is more at home with hunting down a mobile opponent and letting his hands go, Thurman had not choice but to occasionally plant his feet, bite down on his mouthpiece and swing for the fences. It made for a more compelling fight.

If Spence beats Brook, a potential showdown with Thurman should be pretty good because the 2012 Olympian is a hunter.

WHY DIDN’T HAYE-BELLEW GO TO SCORECARDS

Hey Dougie,

Just a quick question in light of the Haye vs Bellew fight, if a fighter suffers an accidental cut in a fight the fight goes to the scorecards after 4 rounds, why is this not the case with a serious injury like the one Haye seemed to suffer on Saturday night?

That would have seemed like the fairest way to settle things this weekend in my opinion.

All credit to Tony Bellew though, he did what he had to do and beat the man in front of him but what is evident to me is that he has no power up at heavyweight and don’t really see the point in him calling out Deontay Wilder other than for the money although I suspect there may be more money for him in a Haye rematch. As for Haye I understand he’s gone for surgery on the Achilles and depending on how bad the injury is added together with previous serious injuries he’s had and his age, maybe it’s time to walk away for good. I know he will want the rematch to prove a point and ultimately for another pay day but how much can you punish your body before enough is enough.

I’ve not watched the Thurman vs Garcia fight yet but from what I’ve read I may give that one a miss to be honest lol.

Keep up the good work and speak soon. – Lee, UK

Thanks Lee, will do. If you’ve got some time to kill you could come up with worse things to do than checking out Thurman-Garcia, but if you’re expecting Simon Brown vs. Tyrone Trice (I or II), don’t bother.

I agree that Haye should hang up the gloves. He’s famous in the U.K., he’s made very good money, he’s got other business interests and he accomplished a lot in the sport. But you’re right, if he’s physically able to return to the ring, he most definitely will and he’ll want to set the record straight against Bellew. I can’t be mad at him for wanting to do that. That’s the mentality of a true fighter.

Regarding Bellew, I’d be shocked if he fought more than once more before hanging up the gloves. Like Haye, he’s famous (and can parlay that fame and gift for gab into other gigs like acting or commentating), he’s made good money and he accomplished WAY more than anyone thought he would in boxing. Bellew’s going to aim for whoever brings him the most money, fight him and then retire whether he wins or loses.

Just a quick question in light of the Haye vs Bellew fight, if a fighter suffers an accidental cut in a fight the fight goes to the scorecards after 4 rounds, why is this not the case with a serious injury like the one Haye seemed to suffer on Saturday night? Two reasons: Because Haye did not tell the referee that he was injured (despite it being clear as day) and he elected to fight on until he was knocked out of the ring and the fight was stopped, and because his Achilles tendon injury was not the result of an accidental foul.

Haye’s body failed him during a legal exchange. It happens. Look at when Roberto Duran lost to Pat Lawlor back in 1991. He injured (maybe threw out) his shoulder in Round 6 and that was that, the fight was over and Lawlor has a TKO victory over a 39-year-old Hands of Stone. Same deal when Chris Byrd “stopped” Vitali Klitschko in 2000. The big man hurt his shoulder (later diagnosed as a torn rotator cuff) at some point during the middle rounds, tried to fight with the pain for as long as he could, retired on his stool after nine rounds and the little American heavyweight got a TKO victory and the WBO title. There are other examples (Gabe Ruelas freakishly breaking his elbow against Jeff Franklin early in his career comes to mind), but you get my point. If it isn’t clear that an accidental foul caused the injury that ultimately causes a fighter to no longer be able to continue, the fight does not go to the scorecards once it’s stopped.

Email Fischer at [email protected]. Follow him on Twitter at @dougiefischer