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Dougie’s Monday mailbag

Fighters Network
12
Jun

SATURDAY NIGHT FIGHTS

Hey Doug,

Hope you’re doing well. Just wanted to go over the weekend fights and get your thoughts. I’ll start with Felix Verdejo. I am not at all a fan. There was a lot of talk and build up on this fight around how important it was for him to look impressive. And he didn’t. He looked good enough, technically, but not like a hungry fighter who wants to fight. What did you think?



Which leads me to the ref stoppage. Now I’m not going to complain because I figured something shady like that would happen. Verdejo was not going to legitimately get the KO and when he landed a good punch, followed by missing a bunch, the ref dove in and stopped it. Why does that always seem to happen when a guy is making his comeback or is expected to get an overdue KO? Maybe I’m being overly suspicious, IDK.

Moving on, I’m happy to say I picked John Molina to win (and won money on it). Ruslan Provodnikov has been in a lot of wars, is very one dimensional, and has shown he overlooks guys in the past (primarily Chris Algieri). Plus, mixing in more defense was undoubtedly going to hurt his work rate. But I found two things interesting in that fight. A) The Showtime crew oversold what a war it was, and B) they were hesitant to side with Molina in the scoring… noting at the end that many rounds were very close and it could go either way.

Much like the way HBO oversells Verdejo or Julian Ramirez, Showtime is also guilty. Do you think they get counsel to do that? Or is it unspoken, like “Provodnikov is a Showtime guy so we should talk him up”? I mean I think they all applauded what Molina was doing, but were very quiet about how it would turn out. But I was happy with the judging on that one. Often it comes down to who sets the tone in the first two rounds of the fight. Then that fighter gets the benefit of the doubt in close rounds throughout the bout.

Lastly, and not to say I told ya so, but Vasyl Lomachenko got the KO! I really felt like Rocky Martinez is just way too easy to hit and Bob Arum was probably in Lomachenko’s ear that he needed to win impressively. It was pretty impressive. How do you see a rematch with Orlando Salido going? Will Vasyl get the stoppage there? Anyway, take it easy Doug! – Vincent, Winston-Salem

Thanks for sharing you (somewhat paranoid/cynical) thoughts, Vincent. Boxing has made you a little crazy, but it’s clear that you know your stuff and that you still have your passion for the sport.

Lomachenko was absolutely sensational against Martinez. If you called the KO, kudos to you. I don’t know if that prediction makes you Eddie Futch, but whatever. Bottom line is that Loma is a freakin’ super stud. “Pretty impressive” doesn’t cover it. He was operating every facet of the game on an elite level, and I don’t think Arum had anything to do with it. That’s just Loma being Loma. He’s a fierce competitor with uncommon talent/athleticism and uncanny ring generalship.

I think Lomachenko, who almost beat Salido the first time they met, would dominate the Mexican warrior. Could he get the stoppage? Yes, I think so. I would hope so if the fight goes the way I envision it because Salido would take a lot of punishment if it went the full 12.

I’ll start with Felix Verdejo. I am not at all a fan. That’s OK. I think the young man and Top Rank will survive without your support.

There was a lot of talk and build up on this fight around how important it was for him to look impressive. And he didn’t. He looked good enough, technically, but not like a hungry fighter who wants to fight. What did you think? I wasn’t blown away by his performance but I thought it was solid enough for this stage of his career. To be truthful, I didn’t expect much from Verdejo. Some boxers are ready for the world by age 23, most aren’t (and that includes amateur standouts like Verdejo). It doesn’t matter to me that he’s on HBO. I get why he is – he’s a good-looking and personable/marketable Puerto Rican Olympian with a strong following and the backing of Top Rank – but I don’t expect him to take my breath away like his more mature promotional stablemate who was in the main event. Verdejo may one day impress us like that but right now he’s in a steady developmental mode. Top Rank would love it if he reminded us of Felix Trinidad but they realize the most important thing is for the young man to stay busy against solid opposition and to learn something from each fight. Verdejo is no Tito (who was already three years into his welterweight title reign and had defeated the likes of Maurice Blocker, Yory Boy Campas, Oba Carr and Hector Camacho when he was 23), and I don’t think it’s fair to compare him to the hall of famer.

Which leads me to the ref stoppage. Now I’m not going to complain because I figured something shady like that would happen. I thought it was a quick stoppage but I don’t think there was anything “shady” about it. The ref simply thought Martinez – who had been outclassed to that point – was more hurt than he actually was and he believed (in the moment) that Verdejo was landing more follow-up shots than the fighter actually was.

Maybe I’m being overly suspicious, IDK. I think so.

Moving on, I’m happy to say I picked Molina to win (and won money on it). Look at you, Nostradamus! Go on with your bad self.

Provodnikov has been in a lot of wars, is very one dimensional, and has shown he overlooks guys in the past (primarily Algieri). I agree that he’s been in a many hard/physical/punishing fights and that he’s one-dimensional, but I don’t think he overlooks opponents. He’s just easily frustrated and befuddled by a tough boxer who sticks him with a jab and uses a little lateral movement.

But I found two things interesting in that fight. A) The Showtime crew oversold what a war it was, and B) they were hesitant to side with Molina in the scoring… noting at the end that many rounds were very close and it could go either way. For commentators, the scoring of competitive fights that involve fighters with contrasting styles (pressure fighter vs. mobile boxer) is always dicey. If they go hard with their commentary in support of one style, they usually get ripped whether the fighter that employed that style wins or not. There’s always a significant percentage of hardcore fans that will have seen it the other way, either thinking that the boxer using the other style deserved to win or that the fight was closer than the official judges and broadcasters had it. And those fans often cry “foul play” as you’re doing right now. I thought Molina won handily but I noticed that more than a few fans on my Twitter timeline thought it was close throughout. Had Showtime’s broadcast booth gone all “rah, rah, rah” for Molina I bet you that anyone who thought the fight was close would have accused them of giving Molina the benefit of the doubt because he was the Al Haymon-advised fighter.

Much like the way HBO oversells Verdejo or Julian Ramirez, Showtime is also guilty. Do you think they get counsel to do that? No, I don’t.

Or is it unspoken, like “Provodnikov is a Showtime guy so we should talk him up”? Maybe.

PROVO, LOMA AND THE GREATEST

Dougie,

Hope you’re well fella and enjoyed a great weekend of boxing. I’ll keep this short ol’ boy!

What do you make of Provo’s performance and where do you think he goes from here? With his style its natural that he’ll be involved in wars, but it looks like the wear and tear are taking its toll.

Loma looked dazzling again – is there a more complete fighter in the game today? In my humble opinion he has more in his locker than even Chocolatito. Though I’m guessing you’ll disagree with me on that one!

Last thing, just to caveat anything I now write I do hold Ali in the highest regard and consider him the greatest heavy of all time. After his passing I went back and watched the Thrilla in Manila again and with all the gifts he had one thing I would say is that he almost had a bit of a slapping style to his punches, much like Joe Calzaghe or James DeGale. Not sure whether you agree, but do you think the power he had would be enough to seriously hurt the beasts that roam in the glamour division nowadays?

Just to clarify I think Ali would have beaten all of the current crop, but I don’t see him having the power to stop a Anthony Joshua or Deontay Wilder, or even someone like Mike Tyson back in his peak. Hope I make the cut and will look forward to the mailbag anyway, you legend – Mike, Weymouth

Thanks for keeping it short, Mike. Quick question: what makes you think Ali would need devastating power to stop Joshua or Wilder? Has either heavyweight beltholder proven to possess a Ray Mercer-caliber chin?

What do you make of Provo’s performance and where do you think he goes from here? I thought he looked flat but I don’t want to take away from Molina’s performance, which was the best I’ve seen from the Covina, California native (and I saw his pro debut and covered his club-level fights long before he ever fought on TV). Molina boxed in a disciplined manner I didn’t think he was capable of, so my hat is off to him and to his new trainer Shadeed Suluki. (Both guys are among my favorite people in boxing.)

With his style its natural that he’ll be involved in wars, but it looks like the wear and tear are taking its toll. Could be, but I’m hesitant to call the Russian a “spent bullet.” Most of us thought Molina was finished, and guess what?

Loma looked dazzling again – is there a more complete fighter in the game today? No, there isn’t.

In my humble opinion he has more in his locker than even Chocolatito. Roman Gonzalez is a complete fighter, but he isn’t as versatile, mobile or fluid as Lomachenko.

After his passing I went back and watched the Thrilla in Manila again and with all the gifts he had one thing I would say is that he almost had a bit of a slapping style to his punches, much like Joe Calzaghe or James DeGale. I think Ali slapped a lot in that fight, but he was well past his prime by 1975 and sweltering heat of the Philippines and the grueling nature of that ring war was certainly a factor in the quality of his offensive technique. If you look at Ali’s fights from the late 1960s and early ’70s, you’ll see sharper punches and less slapping (but you will see some slapping – he’s not a puncher, he’s a boxer that usually dealt in volume).

Not sure whether you agree, but do you think the power he had would be enough to seriously hurt the beasts that roam in the glamour division nowadays? “The beasts that roam in the glamour division nowadays”? That line made me chuckle. What beasts? The division was glamorous in the 1970s. Not so much “nowadays.”

 

REST IN PEACE JOE CHAVEZ

It was June 16, 2008, at the Irvine Marriott, a 4-round attraction: Canstancio Alvarado vs undefeated Angel Magdelano. I was 25 years old and training Alvarado (my dad sent me on assignment to handle this fight and be the head second). Our team was up for the challenge of being the B-side of a club show in enemy territory against an up and comer at the time, but we had one weapon the A-side didn’t that was the great Joe Chavez.

Joe was a loyal and great friend. He met me down at the Marriott ball room, wrapped Alvarado’s hands, discussed the game plan and we were set for an all-out war! The fight was one of the best I’ve ever been apart of, a back-and-fourth slugfest! Alvarado had a gash from a punch in Round 1 so a KO seemed inevitable but Joe, like he always did in calm and composed fashion, gathered his tools and went to work in-between rounds. As I climbed up the apron and looked at Alvarado’s eye I considered stopping it (the gash was so deep it showed the brow’s bone). But Joe said “Let me work it” and told Alvarado, who hardly spoke a lick of English, in Spanish “It’s OK, just keep fighting, I’ll stop this.” Alvarado banged his way to a draw against the unbeaten fighter and Joe kept his word, he staved off the gash just enough to let the fight continue and earn that hard-fought draw. The crowd littered the ring with dollar bills to show their appreciation to both fighters.

The cut Alvarado had needed stitches and it was a long way back to Salinas, California, where we live. The doctor who worked the fight that night could stitch him up there in the locker room but it would cost the promoter another $300 out of his pocket, so he didn’t want to have the doc sow him up. It was Joe who stood up to the veteran promoter, argued and fought and even threatened in order for Alvarado to get the proper treatment.

Most people will define Joe’s legendary career by the likes of Oscar De La Hoya, Miguel Cotto, Manny Pacquiao and other modern day Hall of Famers, but he showed as much passion and care for the club fighter with a 2-3 record that paid him $50 as he did for the $10,000 pay days on pay per view because that’s just the kind of guy he was, a loyal, humble friend who loved to tell funny stories, bet on horses, and drink McDonald’s coffee. He was a man’s man, a great man, and a brilliant cutman. I will miss him dearly and so will the entire boxing world because they just don’t make them like Amilcar Brusa, Don Familton, and now Joe Chavez anymore.

Thanks Dougie, hopefully this is not too long for your mailbag. – Sam Garcia

Thank you, Sam. The emails are never too long when you write from the heart, especially when you write about good (and sometimes overlooked) boxing people like Chavez.

For those who don’t know Sam, he’s the son of Max and Kathy Garcia, the husband-and-wife trainer/managerial team based in Salinas, California. Sam has literally grown up in the boxing world, and was fortunate to know special men like Brusa, Familton and Chavez.

Joe-Chavez_mailbagThanks for shining a much deserved spotlight on Chavez, one of my all-time favorite cornermen and somebody I learned from (as I’m sure you and countless others have), by sharing this story with us. You hit the nail on the head with this description of Joe: “he showed as much passion and care for the club fighter with a 2-3 record that paid him $50 as he did for the $10,000 pay days on pay per view because that’s just the kind of guy he was, a loyal, humble friend who loved to tell funny stories, bet on horses, and drink McDonald’s coffee.”

That’s him. I couldn’t have said it better.

 

GREAT AMATEUR BECOMES GREAT PRO?

While not as extensive as Vasyl Lomachenko’s, Donald Curry had a superlative amateur record himself. At his prime I thought he was on the way to becoming one of the top 5 of all time, prior to his fight with Lloyd Honeyghan and eventual decline. His left that dropped Milton McCrory is, in my opinion, the most perfectly executed punch I have seen in my lifetime (I wasn’t alive for Ray Robinson’s left hook on Gene Fullmer.)

So we have seen excellent amateurs show promise in their pro careers. But at just *7* pro fights, when most pros are still fighting 4-rounders, I have that feeling again that something special is in the making. The footwork, exceptionally fast and smooth punch combinations, angles, and power at 130 – I won’t make a wild prediction this early but I won’t be surprised if Lomachenko ends up in all-time lists in 15 years.

Of course, as with Curry, it’s possible for a talent like that to flare like a shooting star and then snuff out.

To me it seems that Felix Verdejo, with those crazy wide shoulders, will be able to move up in weight a few times in his career and cause some damage. Cheers. – Bill in Toronto

I think Verdejo will grow into the 140-pound division by age 25 and he’ll likely end up at welterweight before his career is over. I also believe that he will exhibit more power at junior welterweight.

I think Lomachenko is better at 130. Against Martinez, he was just as fast and nimble as he was at 126 pounds but looked physically stronger and his punches appeared to have more pop. It goes without saying that his talent and skill level is sublime.

file_180697_5_Curry-McCrory-poster_300At his prime I thought (Curry) was on the way to becoming one of the top 5 of all time, prior to his fight with Lloyd Honeyghan and eventual decline. You were not alone, and I’ve got THE RING magazines from 1984 and 1985 to prove it. Curry and Marvin Hagler were THE RING’s co-Fighters of the Year in ’85, and the prevailing thought was that the undisputed welterweight champ would challenge the undisputed middleweight champ sometime in 1986 to prove not only who was No. 1 pound for pound, but who was an all-time great. At the end of ’85 (right after Curry-McCrory), if you’d pressed the top boxing writers to pick a winner in that dream matchup I bet you that the majority would have gone with the Lone Star Cobra.

His left that dropped Milton McCrory is, in my opinion, the most perfectly executed punch I have seen in my lifetime (I wasn’t alive for Ray Robinson’s left hook on Gene Fullmer.) Hey man, don’t feel weird about that opinion. I’m friends with boxing fans that were alive during the Robinson and Fullmer’s reigns and they were awed by Curry’s crisp-cold KO of the Iceman. My buddy and track coach Dave Schwartz, who saw most of the Golden Age greats fight live, was at the Curry-McCrory fight and he STILL raves about that knockout. (Check out our Periscope shot during yesterday’s track workout at UCLA’s Drake Stadium, he talks about the Curry-McCrory fight. We normally do this at Santa Monica College’s track every Sunday at 9:00 a.m. PT. “Coach Schwartz” quizzes me on boxing subjects and I do my best to answer while skipping rope. We also answer questions from anyone who poses them during the live Periscope. Yesterday, Dave asked me to name all of the WBC welterweight champs from the present beltholder to as far back as I could go. I made it all the way back to McCrory/Leonard. We also talked about Joe Chavez, Lomachenko, John Molina and other subjects.)

I have that feeling again that something special is in the making. Again, you are not alone. We’ll see what happens, but one thing is certain: Loma is one of the best all-around boxers on the planet right now.

The footwork, exceptionally fast and smooth punch combinations, angles, and power at 130 – I won’t make a wild prediction this early but I won’t be surprised if Lomachenko ends up in all-time lists in 15 years. We’ll see. He will need the right fights/dance partners to make good on that prediction. I hope he gets the opportunity because the natural talent, fluid athleticism, balance, coordination, technique, punch variation and ring IQ that you noted suggests that he will overcome many future challenges.

Of course, as with Curry, it’s possible for a talent like that to flare like a shooting star and then snuff out. True. Loma doesn’t appear to be on a burn-out trajectory, but neither did Curry.

 

JOHN MOLINA

Doug –

Could Molina do that to Matthysse? – Kevin Key, Duluth, MN

He could certainly try, but I think he would have more of a difficult time employing the jab-and-move strategy against Lucas Matthysse than he did against Provodnikov because the Argentine contender is a better boxer than the Russian. Matthysse has a good jab, a high workrate, decent upper-body movement, and he doesn’t always plod forward.

My guess is that Molina would not be able to stick-and-move on Matthysse as efficiently as Viktor Postol did, but who knows? With his punching power maybe he doesn’t need to.

 

IS IT OK TO BOARD THE LOMA-EXPRESS?

Hey Doug,

Lomachenko KO Martinez jump_mikey williams toprank

Photo: Mikey Williams-Top Rank

Hope all is well in your neck of the woods. Watching Loma dismantle Rocky was a masterful display of the sweet science. I’ve been watching the sport since the mid ’90s, and I can’t recall ever seeing anything like him. In my heart, I have the feeling that this guy’s going to become a legend, but my head says slow down Brother, he’s only had 7 pro fights albeit winning titles in two divisions.

I honestly can’t see anyone at 130 who could beat him (Walters is the only person who comes to mind that may have a good shot, but I think Loma wins that one decisively). I’m attempting to look for flaws in Loma’s game, but I can’t find anything. So I’m turning to you to talk some sense into me. – D.W. from Boston, Ma

I don’t see any glaring flaws, D.W., and I don’t have a problem with fans going “ga-ga” over ultra-talented fighters (provided they don’t pull an “HBO” and immediately compare them to the all-time greats – imagine this line in Max Kellerman’s voice: “Vasyl Lomachenko is the perfect synthesis of the best attributes of Sugar Ray Robinson, Willie Pep and Muhammad Ali.”) Loma is worthy of our praise but we should crown him as a top-five pound-for-pound player yet, let alone an ATG.

I’ve been watching the sport since the mid ’90s, and I can’t recall ever seeing anything like him. I’ve been a hardcore fan since the late ’80s and I can’t recall a boxing style quite like the Ukrainian southpaw’s. I think it’s safe to say that he’s got a unique and athletic style, just as Roy Jones Jr., Naseem Hamed, Joe Calzaghe and Sergio Martinez had.

In my heart, I have the feeling that this guy’s going to become a legend, but my head says slow down Brother, he’s only had 7 pro fights albeit winning titles in two divisions. His pro accomplishments are impressive given the number of fights he has, but keep in mind that he’s only faced two RING-rated fighters (Orlando Saldio and Martinez) and he’s 1-1 against that hardnosed (but somewhat faded) duo.

I honestly can’t see anyone at 130 who could beat him (Walters is the only person who comes to mind that may have a good shot, but I think Loma wins that one decisively). I agree. I still want to see him prove that he’s the man at junior lightweight, but I would strongly favor him to beat fellow beltholders Francisco Vargas, Jezreel Corrales and Jose Pedraza, as well as top contenders Salido, Takashi Miura, Javier Fortuna and Takashi Uchiyama.

 

HUGO’S COMMENTS ABOUT ALI

Hello Doug!

I have not made the mailbag in years, but wanted to write anyway, in response to the comments about Ali from Hugo.

First, I don’t know if the guy writing was a Vietnam vet or not – I am a vet of that lovely mess. I was in the service from 1969 to 1971, and I sure did not want to be. Very few men I knew wanted to be drafted, or volunteered. (Most of those who volunteered did so to get MOS’s – jobs, military occupational specialty – that they wanted, rather than go where the needs of the service sent them with the draft, or volunteered for the navy or air force to avoid the army, etc.)

alt

From THE RING archives

Vietnam itself? Most of us do not even want to talk about it. But Ali? The vast majority of the guys I knew, personally, over the boat, admired the champ for standing up and resisting the draft. Fact was, we knew, and believed, it took real courage to refuse induction, and risk 5 years in the federal pen for doing so. He would have gone to prison if he lost his appeal, he didn’t run off to Canada. That was the key for most of us. Hell, I wish I had resisted! At the time I was more afraid of condemnation and prison than Vietnam.

I am not downing Hugo for believing what he believes, that Ali was wrong for not “answering his country’s call.” I do question whether he is a Vietnam Vet, because most of us, again, the vast majority I knew personally, supported Ali. (And that includes the white vets, just to make that point.) Vietnam was a s—hole, and most of us who went thought we had no damn business being there. We did despise the ones who ran off to Canada, though I admit time has changed that perspective a little – but we admired the guys who stood up, went to prison, or risked doing so.

As far as that crap about our country calling, it only called the poor, black, and not in college. It was not like the later wars, where you volunteered. We got “called” with a threat of prison if we declined. And the call only went to those like me who were poor and not in school. I didn’t see any Harvard boys wading around in the mud in the monsoons. It was a bitterly unfair war, and those of us who fought it wished the country had called someone else, and we admired those who answered that call with a big NO, as long as they were willing to pay the price we were not. (I still think he, and the other conscientious objectors had more courage than I did – federal prison is no damn joke!)

Finally, Hugo, do you know the army waived its test mandates in order to draft Ali? He failed the basic literacy tests, and they waived it, but only for him. Only guy in the entire war they did that for. Not cool at all. Political, do you think? Vietnam vets knew that too. Would not have happened to a rich kid from Boston.

As far as his being an a—hole out of the ring sometimes? Hugo, I got news for you buddy, all of us are a—holes sometimes. I never knew the champ personally. But everything I read and heard then, and through the years, made me believe he was basically a good man, who liked people, and tried to do the right thing. He certainly was a towering figure in my time, and meant a lot to a lot of us. I can’t speak for all Vietnam vets, but those I knew personally, the vast majority supported Ali.

Well, I am pretty sure I won’t make the mailbag again, but I still am a big fan Doug! Keep up the good work, you make my Mondays and Fridays!

I have to close with what-if Muhammad Ali fights:

Prime, Liston era Muhammad Ali v. Prime Joe Louis

Prime, Liston era Muhammad Ali v. Jack Johnson

Prime, Liston era Muhammad Ali v. Lennox Lewis

Anyway, it is always good to read the mailbag, and as I am close now to my 70th year, I continue to enjoy the sweet science! Take care. – John

Thank you so much for sharing your story so candidly in response to the Ali diatribe submitted by Hugo (who I’m sure is a decent person, just a little out of line with his opinions on Ali in my opinion).

You’ll definitely make the mailbag again if you chose to write in. As I said to Sam Garcia, I don’t mind readers being long winded provided they are writing about subjects they are passionate about and especially if the subjects include special human beings like Ali.

You were able to answer Hugo in ways that I could not. I’m not veteran of any war and I haven’t served in any branch of military service (although much of many family has). And Ali’s refusal to be inducted into the U.S. Army (and subsequent court battle and exile from boxing) is way before my time. So thank you again for sharing your unique perspective.

I’m glad to hear that you still enjoy boxing. There’s hope for us all!

Your Ali mythical matchups:

Prime, Liston era Muhammad Ali v. Prime Joe Louis – Ali by up-from-the canvas decision (close but unanimous)

Prime, Liston era Muhammad Ali v. Jack Johnson – Ali by close decision in a tactical boxing match that isn’t nearly as entertaining as the pre-fight trash talk between the two masterful stylists/psychological intimidators (although I’m sure there would be some fun banter during the match).

Prime, Liston era Muhammad Ali v. Lennox Lewis – Ali by late stoppage in a difficult fight for “The Greatest” due to Lewis’ height, reach, size, power and boxing IQ, but at the end of the day Ali’s beard holds up better than the modern giant’s.

 

THE GREATEST IS NOT JUST A NICKNAME

Hey Dougie,

I thought you gave a great response to Hugo in the last mailbag. I’d also like to add that while Ali was flawed just like every other human being, it is complete nonsense to accuse him of cowardice.

Like Joe Louis in World War II, Ali would likely have toured Vietnam as an entertainer/morale booster, putting on boxing exhibitions and training with soldiers. I believe I read in David Remnicks book about him a few years ago that he lost out on an estimated fifteen million dollars due to his decision to say no to the war. The idea that he avoided the war because he feared for his safety is ridiculous.

I would advise anyone who questions the man’s courage to watch his final bout with Frazier; many people say it cuz it sounds tough but Ali demonstrated in the ring that he did not fear death. I believe that to a certain extent you are born with that type of courage but I also know that Ali was a true believer and his faith in God was so strong that he really wasn’t afraid of what came next. As an agnostic I find it hard to wrap my head around this kind of mentality but I really think it’s what propelled Ali to greatness. He feared no one. He was the monster Slayer.

Can you think of any other fighter who beat the equivalents of Liston and Foreman in terms of danger level and fear factor? To me at least, those wins coupled with his trilogy with Joe Frazier are what make him the greatest fighter of all time, pound for pound. With all due respect to Sugar Ray Robinson, was LaMotta as scary as Frazier? Were Gavilan or Basilio equivalent to Liston and Foreman? Yes, the Sugar man fought a lot more than Ali and beat more hall of famers but in my humble opinion he never beat anyone as powerful as scary or as feared as Liston or Foreman. Ali slew the monsters, he did the impossible – he is the Greatest of all Times! – Jack E.

Hey, you’ll no argument from me, Jack! Well said.

 

 

Email Fischer at [email protected]. Follow him on Twitter at @dougiefischer

 

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