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Dougie’s Friday mailbag

Photo by Naoki Fukuda
Fighters Network
20
Jan

IT WAS ABOUT TIME

Hi Dougie,

Hope you and your family are well.

A few thoughts:



1) What’s going on at Barclays? The 3 best fights of the past 12 months were at Barclays- Porter/Thurman, LSG/Frampton and now DeGale/Jack. I happened to be at 2 of them, the crowd is so electric, I hope this hot streak continues. Can you think of a venue that’s had better action recently? Do you believe the venue can be a factor in producing great fights?

2) Finally! The Golden Boy-ESPN deal makes me hopeful that we are going to see a lot of competitive bouts along with some of the best prospects, before they become contenders. Hats off to Oscar, this is great for the fans, for the sport and definitely for his stable of fighters. This makes total business sense to me for a promoter who wants to create fan awareness of his fighters. Do you have a guess as to who the broadcast team will be? Let’s hope we get a change from the team they used at ESPN, I had my fill of Teddy.

3) When a purse is paid to a fighter, how much does he keep? I understand the trainer, cutman and other people in the fighter’s camp get a piece of the purse. The reason I ask is because we often see fighters, that get a decent amount of money, but who talk about still keeping a day job. I’m wondering if they end up with a lot less than we would think.

4) Badou Jack had a different trainer against DeGale, prior to this fight I remember him having Eddie Mustafa Muhammad. Why did he make that change? Do you think the change may have impacted him- better or worse?

5) Hope we see Jack against Stevenson, I think he has the boxing skills, bodywork and toughness to win.

Thanks! – Rahn

I give Badou Jack a shot at unseating Adonis Stevenson. He would just have to get out of the early rounds and get his momentum going. Once Jack starts grindin’, he’s hard to slow down or discourage.

Badou Jack had a different trainer against DeGale, prior to this fight I remember him having Eddie Mustafa Muhammad. You are correct. Muhammad was his head trainer (and the coach who really refined his fundamentals into professional/world-class quality). At some point Lou “Honey Boy” Del Valle, a former light heavyweight titleholder, was brought in as a co-trainer, and I believe it’s just been Del Valle for Jack’s last two fights.

Why did he make that change? I have no idea. You’d have to ask Jack or Muhammad. In the meantime, here’s a video interview with Muhammad (by The Hustle Boss):

Muhammad wasn’t happy with the split (or the manner in which Jack did it), and I agree with his claim that “Jack wouldn’t be champion” without his instruction.

(By the way, Del Valle says he used to work with Jack early in the Swede’s career.)

Do you think the change may have impacted him- better or worse? I think Muhammad is the more experienced trainer (and also the better former 175-pound champ), but I haven’t noticed a significant drop in Jack’s technique or ring generalship since his departure from the corner. Perhaps it will tell over time, but I think Del Valle is a solid trainer and Jack’s obviously a dedicated student in the gym so maybe he’ll be just fine.

When a purse is paid to a fighter, how much does he keep? Generally speaking, less than half.

I understand the trainer, cutman and other people in the fighter’s camp get a piece of the purse. Traditionally, the trainer gets 10%, the cutman gets 3%, and the manager (if the fighter has one) can take as much as 30% (although a lot of managers won’t take this much of a cut until their fighter is making substantial paydays). Many of the bigtime fighters pay their trainer(s) and cornermen an agreed-upon flat fee. Of course, the biggest deduction from a fighter’s payday is usually the taxes he or she has to pay on it.

The reason I ask is because we often see fighters, that get a decent amount of money, but who talk about still keeping a day job. That’s a good idea for most fighters.

I’m wondering if they end up with a lot less than we would think. They often do end up with a lot less than what is reported.

Finally! The Golden Boy-ESPN deal makes me hopeful that we are going to see a lot of competitive bouts along with some of the best prospects, before they become contenders. I certainly hope so, too, and I believe that is the goal of the good folks at GBP and ESPN. I’m just glad they finally announced the deal. Oscar De La Hoya and others within the company have been hinting and teasing about some kind of TV deal for what seems like months. I think yesterday’s announcement is one of many good signs for the health of the U.S. boxing scene.

Hats off to Oscar, this is great for the fans, for the sport and definitely for his stable of fighters. Golden Boy has one of the biggest rosters in boxing, including a lot of youngsters, and they have to keep ‘em all busy (especially the prospects). This deal will help them do so while getting excellent exposure for their up-and-comers and some of their veterans.

This makes total business sense to me for a promoter who wants to create fan awareness of his fighters. Do you have a guess as to who the broadcast team will be? I don’t know. I heard ESPN’s Bernardo Osuna mention that he would be “part of the broadcast team” during a taped announcement of the agreement (with Julio Cesar Chavez Sr. by his side on the “A Los Golpes” studio), but that’s all I’ve heard.

Let’s hope we get a change from the team they used at ESPN, I had my fill of Teddy. Mr. Atlas gives me headaches at times, but he can also be a very good boxing analyst (obviously bringing a veteran trainer’s eye and opinions to a broadcast). I could be wrong, but I think the network has most of the say as to who commentates on their shows (and they have contracts with certain talent, so… you know how that goes.)

What’s going on at Barclays? Something good. Don’t jinx it!

The 3 best fights of the past 12 months were at Barclays- Porter/Thurman, LSG/Frampton and now DeGale/Jack. I can think of a couple bouts that took place in the past 12 months that I’d put ahead of this trio (ahem, Vargas-Salido, cough, cough, Gonzalez-Cuadras). The three best PBC fights, maybe… but still, good matchups and entertaining bouts all around. I enjoyed all three.

I happened to be at 2 of them, the crowd is so electric, I hope this hot streak continues. I said don’t JINX it, damn it! Seriously, I think the streak will continue. Thurman-Garcia is already heated (thanks, in part, to the classless Angel Garcia’s racial slurs at the kick-off presser) and I think the welterweights will carry it right up into the ring.

Can you think of a venue that’s had better action recently? The StubHub Center in Carson, California seems to be doing alright. But I definitely consider Barclays in Brooklyn to be one of the premiere boxing venues in the U.S.

Do you believe the venue can be a factor in producing great fights? Yeah, I do. Barclays and StubHub seem to have that boxing barnburner mojo that MSG and the Olympic Auditorium (in L.A.) used to have back in the day. And I believe that the fans are a major part of that mojo.

 

JACK THE RIPPER

Hey Doug.

Your view on B. Jack moving up to 175?

I applaud him for making his move straight away as opposed to screwing around like a total b__ch while holding his current title hostage. Not sure how I like his chances against the big boys though. Sure, The Ripper can really crack. Looking at DeGale’s battered mug says it all. But how can he stand up to all those punchers making up the 175-pound top 10?

I actually like his chances against Adonis Stevenson. Unless Joe Smith gets to “Superman” first. Anyhow, Stevenson has a lot of rust to work off his 40-something-year-old carcass and take away that big left-hand we’re left with some a__hole sleeping around with Al Haymon. But the other guys? Beterbiev has been suggested but he still has yet to fight someone who’s not stuck on a respirator. And I probably like BJ’s chances against Nathan Cleverly and A. Fonfara. But Dre? If Kovalev can’t knock out Dre then I doubt the Ripper can. Dre outboxes and out-grapples him. That leaves us with the two hardest punchers in the division. Kovalev and Joe Smith. Kov nailed the granite-chinned Ward with some real heavy power shots that would have pulped a lesser guy. And we all saw how Smith sent Hopkins sky-diving out of the ring. It’s one thing to walk through DeGale’s best shots. But what if it’s Kovalev or Smith nailing you like that. Could be The Ripper’s turn to be spitting out a tooth or two.

But then again, Jack has been written off before. And if he really wants to test himself by ripping into the likes of Smith, Dre and Kovalev all the power and best of luck to him. Whether we like his chances or not there’s no questioning this guy’s balls or his competitive drive. Onto you now. – Triple T

I don’t have much to piggy back on what you said, TTT. I respect Jack as an overachieving super middleweight titleholder, and like you, I respect his decision to vacate his 168-pound belt to hunt bigger game.

I have no idea how effective he will be at light heavyweight, especially against the elite fighters of the division. Ward, who is by far the more talented and skilled fighter, needed three tune-up bouts above 168 pounds before he was ready to take on the best of the 175-pound division. Jack says he wants to go straight to Stevenson, the consensus No. 3-rated light heavy. That’s a gutsy move.

Despite Stevenson’s inactivity, I might slightly favor the defending WBC beltholder if the fight is made (not that I’d count Jack out, mind you). Stevenson is not as one-dimensional as he seems and he has been forced to fight the 12-round distance a few times, which has made him a better fighter. I’d give Jack a good shot at beating a guy like Beterbiev, despite the Quebec-based Russian’s power and brute strength, because he’s still a bit green a pro. Beterbiev has only fought past four rounds once, a seventh-round TKO of cagey gatekeeper Alexander Johnson (and Johnson had his moments in that fight). Obviously, I’d favor both Ward and Kovalev to beat Jack.

But I’d give Jack a shot against Cleverly and Smith, too (and I think those would be high-volume action fights). I kind of view Jack as a more aggressive version of Isaac Chelimba (but I don’t know if he’s as durable as the Malawi-born technician was).

 

THURMAN VS. GARCIA COULDN’T BE PPV

Hello!

I’ve just read the article on The Ring Online that Thurman v. Garcia will be on free TV. Like it was some kind of surprise.

But could have it have been otherwise?

I remember back in 2014 when Thurman was the next big thing in the welterweight division. Mayweather was close to his retirement and Thurman was supposed to “take his place”. He was knocking out all his opponents.

What happened to him? He seems to have disappeared. He’s not knocking out opponents anymore. He fought only one time in 2016 (pun intended). I know he was injured at the beginning of the year but he fought in June. He could have done 2 more fights in 2016 or at least one. He got to stay active to make his name known.

Golovkin got this thing right and since 2014, he has grown. In my opinion, Keith Thurman is not well known to the casual fans to justify PPV. Cheers. – Sullivan

Well, with all due respect, Sully, maybe pay-per-view is not the goal of Thurman or his handlers. Maybe they just want to evolve Thurman into a legit welterweight champion with a strong TV following.

Having said that, I think you have a point about Thurman’s popularity (at least among hardcore fans and the boxing industry). It does indeed seem like he was positioned and poised to launch into crossover stardom at the end of 2014 and at the start of 2015 when he headlined the first PBC on NBC show. But it hasn’t happened. Thurman is a major player at 147-pounds but he’s no closer to being star now than he was two years ago, and he seems to have lost much of his momentum, which is an odd thing considering that he was in the most watched fight (in the U.S.) of 2015 (vs. Robert Guerrero) and of 2016 (vs. Shawn Porter).

Thurman-Guerrero, which was on NBC, averaged 3 million viewers (and peaked at 4.2 mil.). Thurman-Porter, which was on CBS, also averaged 3 mil. viewers (and peaked at 3.9 mil.). However, Thurman has only fought three times in the past two years (vs. Guerrero, Luis Collazo and Porter). His inactivity has to be a factor in his lack of support from hardcore fans and the lagging enthusiasm among boxing media.

Check out this episode of Ucnlive.com’s 10 Count on “Today’s Most Exciting Fighter,” which was shot in late 2014.

All of the boxing pundits at the table (me, Steve Kim, Ken Miller and Dave Smith) RAVED about Thurman. We gave One Time more love than GGG! But Miller said it best with his one concern regarding Thurman: “I don’t see enough of him.”

If the same question was asked to a 10 Count panel now, I seriously doubt that Thurman would be mentioned, even though I’m still fan of his.

Regardless of what happens against Danny Garcia on March 4, I think a goal of both Team Thurman and the PBC/Al Haymon should be to keep Keith as active as possible. He’s only got another two or three years of his athletic prime left; he should be fighting more than once or twice a year.

I also wonder if not fighting on the same network has hurt Thurman’s career momentum. Thurman fought four consecutive times on Showtime (including a competitive gut-check against Diego Chaves and a grueling late stoppage of gatekeeper Jesus Soto Karass) from mid-2013 through 2014 and carved out his reputation and image during that time. In the three fights he’s had since the start of 2015, he’s fought on very large media platforms, but also three different networks (NBC, ESPN, which aired the Collazo fight, and CBS). If it’s one thing I’ve learned from the strange universe of comic book geekdom, it’s that continuity is very important to hardcore fans.

 

LEMIEUX VS. STEVENS

Hey Doug, just wanted to get your thoughts on the rock’em sock’em match-up of Curtis Stevens and David Lemiuex. This is quintessential Boxing After Dark: two contenders almost guaranteed to bring the ultra violence.

Two questions: Do you think there’s a chance these two go the distance, and do you favor one guy over the other? For some reason I’m slightly favoring the Brooklyn native over my fellow Canuck, just a gut feeling.

Also, I was really happy to see Frampy on the cover of the Fighter of the Year issue. A lot of fans wanted Loma (who had a great year) but a lot of that was from the eye candy I think.  (I hate the cliche ‘poetry in motion’ but he comes close to warranting it.) As you pointed out, Frampy won both his fights in enemy territory, plus gave us a Fight of the Year contender against a bigger, longer man.

I also would’ve been down with naming Chocolatito as the Fighter of the Year. I underestimated both Arroyo and Cuadras but in hindsight I think they were probably better competition than anyone else faced in 2016 –better even than Scott Quigg and Leo Santa Cruz. Chocolatito never underestimates anyone though and that’s all that matters. He’s a bad little man and he always handles his business. – Jack

That’s why Roman Gonzalez is still the pound for pound king in my book. His willingness to take on a fellow unbeaten badass like Carlos Cuadras in his first fight at 115 pounds (his forth damn division), f__k a tune-up, was enough to merit Fighter of the Year consideration, but the fact that he won the fight, made Nicaraguan history, and did so in a Fight-of-the-Year candidate made Chocolatito a real FOTY contender.

However, Frampton taking two “Os” in enemy territory just edged the four-division titleholder in my opinion. He wasn’t just risking a loss by taking on two big, strong confident pressure fighters with underrated technique, he was risking getting JOBBED by the official judges (and the proof is in that bogus 115-113 score for Quigg and that poor 114-114 tally in the Santa Cruz fight).

(Lemieux-Stevens) is quintessential Boxing After Dark: two contenders almost guaranteed to bring the ultra violence. I’m OK with “ultra violence” in boxing. I just wanted to state that for the record.

Two questions: Do you think there’s a chance these two go the distance, and do you favor one guy over the other? Sure, I can see the fight going the distance (both guys were supposed to KO their last opponent but it didn’t happen). I’m OK with a 12-round fight as long they still give 100% and deliver action and drama (and provided the official judges get it right). But given their punching power, styles and mentalities, it’s safe to say that this fight will likely end in a knockout. I don’t have a strong favorite in this match.

For some reason I’m slightly favoring the Brooklyn native over my fellow Canuck, just a gut feeling. I can see that. Lemieux’s come-forward combination-punching aggression enabled him to beat a guy who outboxed Stevens with lateral movement (Hassan Ndam), but that same style could play right into The Cerebral Assassin’s powerful counter-punching prowess. And Stevens might have the edge in hand speed.

 

THE RETURN OF BOXING AFTER DARK

Hi Doug,

Just heard the news that Curtis Stevens is going to fight David Lemieux on March 11 in the return of HBO’s Boxing After Dark.

I think that’s the kind of matchup that is perfect for this platform, a closely contested matchup between two exciting punchers.

Now, before we call it a full return, we actually need a schedule of fights, maybe a BAD card every two to three months that actually makes sense and looks like the ones from the past.

One fight that comes to mind that would be perfect for this as a follow up is Vasyl Lomachenko vs Jorge Linares, man wouldn’t that be a good fit?

Going back to the fight that’s actually happening I’m liking Lemieux based on activity alone, and that’s inside and outside the ring.

What other fights do you think would work for BAD? I kind of think that if we include these fighters we can have a solid season of this show for a while:

Roman Gonzalez

Gallito Estrada

Orlando Salido

Francisco Vargas

Nonito Donaire

Gary Russell Jr.

Vasyl Lomachenko

Jorge Linares

Give me fights that include any of those fighters and I’m in! – Juan Valverde

Same here, Juan. However, I think some of these potential matchups between the fighters you mention – such as Gonzalez vs. Estrada II and Vargas vs. Salido II, which could happen before the end of 2017 – would wind up on HBO’s Championship Boxing series (either as co-features or main events).

Linares vs. Lomachenko is a dream fight but it’s at least a year away (maybe more than a year away IF it ever happens). And if it did happen sometime in 2018, it would probably be too big of an event for B.A.D. (as the stature of both boxers will continue to grow if they remain unbeaten this year).

I think Russell vs. Joseph Diaz Jr., Oscar Valdez vs. Russell or Diaz Jr.,  Jesse Magdaleno vs. Donaire II, Magdaleno vs. Diego De La Hoya, and Lomachenko vs. Jezreel Corrales (which Top Rank brass say is possible for April) are all excellent Boxing After Dark main events, in my humble opinion. (What can I say? I like matchups in the 122-130-pound range. Those are the weight classes that hosted the fights – barnburners and shootouts like Barrera-McKinney, Barrera-Morales I, Gatti-Rodriguez, Manfredy-Paez – that MADE B.A.D.’s reputation.)

I think (Lemieux-Stevens) is the kind of matchup that is perfect for this platform, a closely contested matchup between two exciting punchers. No doubt about it. Prior to their fights with Gennady Golovkin I thought we’d be treated to a dramatic middleweight puncher shootout in the tradition of Hearns vs. Barkley or McClellan vs. Jackson I or Pavlik vs. Taylor I, but GGG was on another level. Instead, we witnessed an elite boxer-puncher impose systematic beatdowns on his challengers. However, Lemieux and Stevens appear to be on the same level in terms of skill, technique and experience, so maybe we’ll finally get that 160-pound shootout.

 

VEGAS LOVES JAY-Z, BUT NYC HATES FLOYD?

I’m breaking your balls, but you said Vegas worshiped Jay-Z and would do anything to make him happy.

Apparently, the feelings aren’t mutual in Brooklyn for Floyd Mayweather Jr.!

I guess Jay put the hit in BK to “shut ’em down, shut ’em, shut ’em down.”

Thank you. – Jason C. Brown

You’re funny, Jason.

However, at the risk of sounding like a conspiracy theorist, I have to point something out (something that’s probably tortured poor Mayweather’s paranoid mind since Saturday): Barclays Center CEO Brett Yormark’s twin brother, Michael, is the President of Roc Nation’s boxing division.

Cue the X-Files theme song.

 

 

Email Fischer at [email protected]. Follow him on Twitter at @dougiefischer

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