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Dougie’s Friday Mailbag (Fire and Ice, Fury-Wilder3, Canelo-GGG3)

Fernando Vargas is one boxing's best "Hotheads" of the last generation (and one of Dougie's favorites). Photo by JOHN GURZINSKI/AFP/Getty Images
16
Jul

BOXING’S ICEMEN AND HOTHEADS

Some folks are like fire, some are like ice. Several boxing matches have been promoted like that: “Iceman vs Hothead”.

My question is: Who do you think is boxing’s ultimate Iceman? Who is boxing’s ultimate Hothead?

P.S.: Some mythical matchups for you:

Kostya Tszyu vs Carlos Ortiz

Benny Leonard vs Roberto Duran (at 135)

Gene Fullmer vs Jake LaMotta

Miguel Cotto vs Oscar De La Hoya (at 154)

George Foreman vs Sonny Liston

Canelo Alvarez vs Joe Calzaghe (at 168)

Thanks. – Gregory

Interesting question about the Hotheads and the Icemen of boxing. I think tomorrow night’s undisputed 154-pound championship features a potential star who represents the “fire” – being fueled by emotion with a tendency to rage – in Jermell Charlo and a live underdog who represents the “ice” – possessing steely focus and staying cool in the face of adversity – in Brian Castano.

I’m generally attracted to the passion of the Hotheads, but I’ve always respected the Icemen. Who’s the ultimate Iceman? It’s hard to say. The best of the past generation are Lennox Lewis, Kostya Tszyu, Floyd Mayweather Jr., Juan Manuel Marquez and Andre Ward.

The best active Icemen are Canelo Alvarez, Gennadiy Golovkin and Roman Gonzalez.

My favorites include Julio Cesar Chavez, Pernell Whitaker, Mike McCallum, Winky Wright and Miguel Cotto.

Joe Louis (here hammering poor Arturo Godoy) was a seek-and-destroy specialist but he was always cold as ice. Photo from The Ring archive.

A few of the all-time best Icemen include Gene Tunney, Joe Louis, Archie Moore and Salvador Sanchez. Some were boxer-punchers, some were stick-and-movers, some were all-around technicians, but they were all unflappable.

The Ultimate Hothead? Again, it’s hard to isolate a single fighter. But if I had to choose just one it would probably be the prime version of Roberto Duran. He was the epitome of controlled rage, which occasionally boiled over.  

The best Hotheads of the past generation include Erik “El Terrible” Morales and “Ferocious” Fernando Vargas. The best right now are the Charlo twins and David Benavidez.

My favorite hotheads include “Terrible” Terry Norris and “Merciless” Ray Mercer.

Some famous hotheads from previous eras include Jack Dempsey, Rocky Graciano and Bob Foster.

Of course, I think the greatest boxing talents are able to combine the traits of fire and ice: Sugar Ray Robinson, Muhammad Ali, Larry Holmes, Sugar Ray Leonard, Evander Holyfield, Roy Jones Jr., and Marco Antonio Barrera.

Your Mythical Matchups:

Kostya Tszyu vs Carlos OrtizOrtiz by close decision (in a 12-round bout); late TKO (in a 15-round bout)

Benny Leonard vs Roberto Duran (at 135)Duran by close decision.

Gene Fullmer vs Jake LaMottaLaMotta by close decision.

Miguel Cotto vs Oscar De La Hoya (at 154)De La Hoya (the 2001-2002 version) by close decision.

George Foreman vs Sonny ListonThis is a fascinating ATG heavyweight toss-up. I’m going to reserve opinion until I’ve read a feature article on the Dream Fight submitted by Ron Lipton for upcoming issue of The Ring.

Canelo Alvarez vs Joe Calzaghe (at 168)Calzaghe by close decision.

 

FURY-WILDER3 & CANELO-GGG3

Hi Doug,

Hope you the family and team are well and staying safe.

What is going on??

Fury Vs Wilder 3 postponed, after all the BS leading up to AJ Vs Fury non-event.

Ok, you can’t blame the guy for getting COVID and I wish him and all in his team a full and speedy recovery. However, correct me if I’m wrong, but Fury has not defended any Heavyweight belt, ever, won from either Klitschko or Wilder.

With all the fights over the years falling through for one reason or another, and postponements now, I feel it will hurt his legacy ultimately IMHO. Especially when compared to AJ whose CV simply cannot be argued with.

Considering the inactivity for a “lineal champion” over 6 years, does he really deserve a spot on the P4P list above AJ?

Social media doesn’t seem so sympathetic to Team Fury either. After testing positive for COVID pictures with fans are surfacing stoking the rumour mill. I really think after all the AJ negotiations BS fans have had enough and feel we’ll never get Fury Vs Wilder 3 and forget Fury Vs AJ.

What’s your crystal ball saying?

And where is Wilder??? You would have thought he’d be either shouting off the roof tops about how Fury is “trying to get away” or calling out AJ saying he’ll take Usyk’s place to have a “real” fight. Either way just making some noise to promote yourself and stick it to the other guy???

I think Hearn is correct and Wilder’s not mentally in the right place. All joking aside, has a fight ever been called off due to the mental state of a fighter? And if not should it be if behaviours warrant it?

Are we getting Canelo Vs GGG 3?

Ok, deep breath! However you scored them, the first two fights were amazing! Two future legends at their best! Why would you not want to see a third, right?

Again the Twitterverse is pouring scorn over this possibility also.

Firstly I’m a fan of both. I had no problem with the first fight being a draw, and could see arguments for it going either way. Thought the second one was closer than then official decision but not a robbery.

My issue, mainly with Canelo, is that he is in danger of doing what Floyd is guilt for through his carrier with this GGG fight, and that’s stacking everything in his favour. Mainly because the guy is almost 40 now and there’s no way the fight will be fought outside Texus or Vagus. And why not people will say? They’s why boxers of yester year will always be held in higher regard then sadly most to today’s fighters.

It’s a real shame these 3 fights didn’t happen years ago. I hope this fight gets made and I feel we’ll get another classic.

MM:

Danny Garcia Vs Adrian Broner 140 & 147

Prime Thurman Vs Spence

Prime Thurman Vs Crawford

I know not exactly mythical but humour me: Cap Vs Wolverine, Adamantium Vs. Vibranium

Keep up the good work. – Tabraze, London

I’ll go with Garcia by close UD at both weights (147 closer than at 140), The Thurmanator by come-from-behind late-rounds stoppage, Crawford by close UD and Captain America by SD (if he’s allowed to bring his shield into the ring).

What is going on?? I have no f__king idea. I’ve all but given up on previewing big fights in Ring Magazine, let alone featuring upcoming showdowns on the cover.

Fury Vs Wilder 3 postponed, after all the BS leading up to AJ Vs Fury non-event. For selfish reasons I’m not upset about Fury-Wilder 3 moving to October 9. I have a family engagement on July 24 that would have prevented me from watching the fight live had it happened on this date.

Ok, you can’t blame the guy for getting COVID and I wish him and all in his team a full and speedy recovery. Actually, you CAN blame Fury for getting COVID-19, but I wish him and team a speedy recover just the same.

However, correct me if I’m wrong, but Fury has not defended any Heavyweight belt, ever, won from either Klitschko or Wilder. That is correct.

With all the fights over the years falling through for one reason or another, and postponements now, I feel it will hurt his legacy ultimately IMHO. Especially when compared to AJ whose CV simply cannot be argued with. That might be true if Fury were to retire tomorrow and never fight again, but if he beats Wilder in October and then defeats Joshua at least once in 2022, many will consider him to be the best heavyweight champ since Lennox Lewis and some will even view him as one of the best heavyweights of all time.  

Considering the inactivity for a “lineal champion,” over 6 years, does he really deserve a spot on the P4P list above AJ? Neither he nor Joshua are in The Ring’s pound-for-pound rankings. Fans are free are decide who they think is the better heavyweight. It won’t truly be decided until they share the ring.

Social media doesn’t seem so sympathetic to Team Fury either. Boxing Twitter always needs somebody to dump on. Fury is currently the focus of all that angst, anger, cynicism, and misery. In a few days someone or something else will take his place.

After testing positive for COVID pictures with fans are surfacing stoking the rumour mill. And don’t think of one moment that Fury isn’t aware of this or isn’t loving every minute of it. He’s a master at manipulating the media and fans’ emotions and I believe he relishes it and uses this “gift” to get into his opponents’ heads.

I really think after all the AJ negotiations BS fans have had enough and feel we’ll never get Fury Vs Wilder 3 and forget Fury Vs AJ. I can’t blame or fault fans for being cynical.

What’s your crystal ball saying? To paraphrase the Beastie Boys (from Sabotage): “My crystal ball ain’t so crystal clear.”

And where is Wilder??? In his nest, still rebuilding from that disastrous rematch.

You would have thought he’d be either shouting off the roof tops about how Fury is “trying to get away” or calling out AJ saying he’ll take Usyk’s place to have a “real” fight. I’m sure he did shout off the rooftops when he got the news about Fury’s COVID result, he just didn’t share his anguish with the public, and that’s OK. And I don’t think he has any desire to replace Usyk as a challenger to Joshua.

Either way just making some noise to promote yourself and stick it to the other guy??? Wilder clearly isn’t concerned with promoting this third bout with Fury and I think he knows it’s a lost cause to try to beat the Englishman in a battle of words.

I think Hearn is correct and Wilder’s not mentally in the right place. No s__t! You don’t have to be Sigmund Freakin’ Freud to figure that out.

All joking aside, has a fight ever been called off due to the mental state of a fighter? Not to my knowledge but I wish certain fights in the past were cancelled because of the mental states of the boxers who WON the bouts (Sugar Ray Robinson vs. Jimmy Doyle and Emile Griffith vs. Benny Paret 3).

And if not should it be if behaviours warrant it? I think so. I don’t every want to see an emotional meltdown like we witnessed with Oliver McCall’s rematch with Lennox Lewis. The man stopped trying to fight – let alone win – after two rounds. All he did was clown around in Round 3. He was in tears during Round 4. He wouldn’t return to his corner after Rounds 3 and 4, and there absolutely should not have been sent back into the “fight” for Round 5 (when the fight was finally, mercifully stopped). With what we now know about mental health and brain injuries, I believe this fight would have been stopped after Round 3, but I wish training teams and management would recognize when their fighters are not mentally fit to be in the ring.

Are we getting Canelo Vs GGG 3? Bro, I just told you my crystal ball ain’t so crystal clear.

However you scored them, the first two fights were amazing! I agree.

Two future legends at their best! Facts!

Purchase this issue from The Ring Shop.

Why would you not want to see a third, right? Maybe you don’t want to see GGG lose a clear decision, take undue punishment or get KTFO.

Again the Twitterverse is pouring scorn over this possibility also. Both Canelo and GGG trigger the worst in certain segments of fandom. It’s best to ignore these people.

My issue, mainly with Canelo, is that he is in danger of doing what Floyd is guilty for through his carrier with this GGG fight, and that’s stacking everything in his favour. Canelo’s aim is Caleb Plant. It’s not his fault that Golovkin is past his prime. GGG is a backup plan but the future hall of famer doesn’t have to play along if he doesn’t want to. He can chill for the rest of the summer, report to camp in the fall and take on Ryota Murata in Japan on New Year’s Eve if he wants.

It’s a real shame these 3 fights didn’t happen years ago. I hope this fight gets made and I feel we’ll get another classic. Perhaps their styles, skillsets and mentalities will always make for a close and entertaining 12-round fight, but GGG’s age and his effectiveness at super middleweight (against the current version of Canelo) are major X-factors in the potential third match.

 

Email Fischer at [email protected]. Follow him on Twitter and IG at @dougiefischer, and join him, Tom Loeffler, Coach Schwartz and friends via Tom’s or Doug’s IG Live every Sunday.

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