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Dougie’s Monday Mailbag (Taylor-Ramirez, what’s next for Josh Taylor? Fury-Wilder 3)

Josh Taylor punched his way to elite-boxer status with his 140-pound undisputed championship victory over Jose Ramirez. Photo by Mikey Williams/ Top Rank Inc via Getty Images
24
May

JOSH TAYLOR DELIVERS

Hello Doug,

Well, you were right, Ramirez’s heart and determination were no match for Josh Taylor’s skill, power, speed and his own mental strength. I was very impressed with the way Taylor stayed composed and managed to remain patient while Ramirez showed his whole arsenal and actually hit him with some solid shots to the body during the first half of the fight. He waited until he found that perfect opening, and boom! He caught him. From that moment on it was all him.

The fight was a pretty good scrap that showed us exactly what each man is. I had it a little wider than most (I wasn’t that impressed with Ramirez’ bursts to steal rounds) with Taylor comfortably winning 8-4. I didn’t give Ramirez the last round and I guess that was the difference with most people. I also had it 4-2 after 6 rounds and considering he knocked him down again in the 7th, by the 8th round I thought he was way ahead and that he could cruise to a decision or try to KO him.    I think he tried his best to finish the job but Ramirez is not an easy guy to fight, and I know some people will now call him basic and not as good, but ask Josh what he thinks of him, easier said than done. When you have guys like Ramirez in front of you, you’re not only going against his ability in the ring, you’re also going against his mental strength and will. I believe he will come back in some sort of form and win a belt once Josh leaves this division.



Now, regarding Josh Taylor, where does he go from here? How do you see a fight between him and Teofimo Lopez? Do you think he can be competitive with the likes of Shawn Porter, Keith Thurman, Terrence Crawford and the welterweight top 5? I honestly think he can hold his own with any of them and I would favor him over Porter and Thurman. What do you think?

In regards to the biggest cojones in the sport today, Manny Pacquiao will have his hands full this Summer with Spence. I really don’t think this is a good fight for him at this stage of his career, I think this sounds like a beatdown. Manny has not been in the ring in a long time and his last fight against Thurman, even though he won, you could see who he is at this point of his career. He will have that occasional burst of old Manny that will get him a KD or a big punch that gives him those extra points but he will have rounds in which he’s just acting his age. My guess is that he won’t be able to hurt Spence and he will be punished for 12 rounds. Yes, he will have his moments, but unlike Thurman, Spence has fought high level opposition in the last 24 rounds and is not as fragile as Keith and in his physical prime. I favor Errol BIG. Who do you have and how do you see this fight?

Tyson Fury vs Deontay Wilder III, count me in. Even though it wasn’t the ideal fight for me, I’m all for it. I think it will be exciting and Fury will KO Wilder again inside 5 in a very good scrap. Every time you have these two in the ring, you know they’ll deliver with drama. There’s a story here and that matters. I would’ve liked Wilder to take a tune-up confidence builder fight, but hey, as you said, there’s a lot of money at stake here for his handlers and they need to cash in while they can. Who wouldn’t?

Thanks again Doug, hopefully the fight lands in Vegas and we get to have a drink or two like the good old days! It’s been a long time since those Barrera fights at that bar, what was it called? Red something, I forgot, but those were good times. See ya soon! – Juan Valverde, Chula Vista

I think you’re referring to the Rouge bar/lounge inside the MGM Grand right around the corner from the main elevators. I think it’s something different now. Anyway, if Fury-Wilder 3 happens on July 24, as planned, I won’t be there. I’ve got a family commitment in Louisiana (a memorial service for a beloved uncle) on that weekend. But there will be other big shows in Vegas later this year, hopefully/maybe Canelo-Plant on Mexican Independence Day weekend, where you and I will both be on the scene and reminisce about the good ole days.

Taylor’s second knockdown gave him firm control of the fight. Photo by Mikey Williams/Top Rank Inc via Getty Images

Well, you were right, Ramirez’s heart and determination were no match for Josh Taylor’s skill, power, speed and his own mental strength. Yeah, I backed the right thoroughbred, but it was a still a near-photo finish to my eyes. I’d say Ramirez’s heart and determination were pretty much an even match for all of Taylor’s attributes. But Taylor’s speed, timing, accuracy and ruthlessness produced two clean knockdowns that A) shocked the s__t out of me, and B) were the difference in the fight to my eyes and the official judges scorecards. I’ve no problem with anyone who had Taylor up 7 rounds to 5 or even 8 rounds to 4 as you did. I watched the fight with a group that included friends of Ramirez, and while they favored Taylor to win as I did (they’re very astute boxing people), they were rooting for Jose and that could have influenced me a bit.

I was very impressed with the way Taylor stayed composed and managed to remain patient while Ramirez showed his whole arsenal and actually hit him with some solid shots to the body during the first half of the fight. The first seven rounds of the fight were as intense and dramatic as world-class boxing gets.

He waited until he found that perfect opening, and boom! He caught him. From that moment on it was all him. You gotta work on your ambiguous pronouns, Juan. I thought you were a teacher. LOL. Anyway, I assume that last “him” is Taylor, but I disagree that the Scotsman was in complete control for the rest of the fight following the second knockdown. I thought Ramirez legitimately fought his way back into the fight down the stretch.

I had it a little wider than most (I wasn’t that impressed with Ramirez’ bursts to steal rounds) with Taylor comfortably winning 8-4. I didn’t give Ramirez the last round and I guess that was the difference with most people. I scored the last two rounds for Ramirez. Taylor was coasting a bit too much for me.

Ramirez and Taylor exchange punches during. Photo by Mikey Williams/Top Rank Inc via Getty Images

I also had it 4-2 after 6 rounds and considering he knocked him down again in the 7th, by the 8th round I thought he was way ahead and that he could cruise to a decision or try to KO him. It’s never a good idea to try to “cruise” to a victory in Las Vegas, especially if you’re the fighter visiting for the first time from another country. I had the fight even after six rounds (1, 5 and 6 to Taylor, 2-4 to Ramirez).

I think he tried his best to finish the job but Ramirez is not an easy guy to fight, and I know some people will now call him basic and not as good, but ask Josh what he thinks of him, easier said than done. The dolts that will call Ramirez “basic” are likely the same fools that claimed Taylor is a “hype job.”

I believe he will come back in some sort of form and win a belt once Josh leaves this division. Probably. I wouldn’t count him out at welterweight. I’d love to see how his crafty pressure/volume-punching style meshes with Danny Garcia or Yordenis Ugas.

Now, regarding Josh Taylor, where does he go from here? Probably a WBO mandatory defense vs. Jack Catterall in Scotland and then a superfight vs. either Teofimo Lopez or Terence Crawford. But before he does any of that, he’s taking a trip up the pound-for-pound rankings.

How do you see a fight between him and Teofimo Lopez? I view it as an even matchup. I think Taylor can do a lot of things vs. Lopez that the smaller, older southpaw Vasiliy Lomachenko could not get going until late in their fight. But Lopez might be stronger and even more explosive at 140, so it’s a dangerous fight for the undisputed champ.

Do you think he can be competitive with the likes of Shawn Porter, Keith Thurman, Terence Crawford and the welterweight top 5? Yes, I do. I think he can beat Thurman, Danny Garcia and maybe Ugas.

I honestly think he can hold his own with any of them and I would favor him over Porter and Thurman. I’m not sure Taylor can beat Porter, but he can definitely compete with any of them.

In regards to the biggest cojones in the sport today, Manny Pacquiao will have his hands full this Summer with Spence. No s__t. He’s a 42-year-old senator who turned pro in 1995 and hasn’t fought in two years.

I really don’t think this is a good fight for him at this stage of his career, I think this sounds like a beatdown. Pacquiao knows what he’s signed up for. If needs to get KTFO to know when to hang up his glove, so be it. He certainly wouldn’t be the first ATG to go out like that.

I favor Errol BIG. Who do you have and how do you see this fight? I favor Spence, but I believe the younger man will need to box a disciplined fight to wear down and outpoint (or possibly halt) the future first-ballot hall of famer. Pacquiao’s fighting Spence AND Father Time.  

Tyson Fury vs Deontay Wilder III, count me in. What the hell, I’m not against it. The promotion will be a ridiculous s__t show, but that might be fun.

I think it will be exciting and Fury will KO Wilder again inside 5 in a very good scrap. I think there will be a lot of intensity until Wilder gets cracked by a good one and all those doubts and conspiracy theories come flooding out of his mind. Then it will get ugly, and maybe bizarre and pitiful (see Lennox Lewis vs. Oliver McCall 2).

Every time you have these two in the ring, you know they’ll deliver with drama. I think most of the drama will occur during the promotional build-up.

There’s a story here and that matters. I don’t think there is much of a story, but the animosity is real, so we’ve got a legit grudge match. Let’s see if the Top Rank/ESPN and PBC/FOX can do something with that. July 24 is right around the corner.

I would’ve liked Wilder to take a tune-up confidence builder fight, but hey, as you said, there’s a lot of money at stake here for his handlers and they need to cash in while they can. Who wouldn’t? If I were Wilder’s manager/promoter/advisor, I’d have made the same move.

 

TAYLOR-RAMIREZ

Hey Dougie,

It was an intense fight for seven rounds and although I had the Scotsman winning by a few rounds I was slightly disappointed he took the pedal off the gas in the later rounds.

Was he gassing or just overconfident of the scoring? – Rodemeyer

Maybe a little bit of both, but I expected him slow down a bit in the championship rounds. Taylor faded during the final two rounds of the WBSS finals vs. Regis Prograis and Saturday’s showdown figured to be another battle of attrition. I think Taylor started coasting a bit by the ninth round to conserve his energy in case he needed to make a bold stand in the final two rounds, but Ramirez wasn’t able to press him for the final 6 minutes of the fight, so he was content to stick and move and hold when needed.

Still, I thought Ramirez fought with more zest in those final two rounds AND landed the harder punches, so the Californian edged them on my scorecard, and he came on strong on the official scorecards, too (Tim Cheatham had Ramirez sweeping Rounds 9-12), so it was a risky move by Taylor to ease up late in the fight, even with the two knockdowns he scored.

 

THE TARTAN TORNADO

Hi Dougie,

I hope you had a good birthday weekend just past. As a self-confessed fan-boy of Josh Taylor it felt like all my birthdays and festive seasons came at once with my boy’s outstanding performance Saturday to become the undisputed 140-lb beltholder. Taylor is 18 fights into his career and Undisputed champion – Wow, 18 fights! How much kudos can we give this man for his willingness just to fight the best there is available to him?

And boy, is he turning up at these events: I personally scored the Ramirez match slightly wider for Josh than the judges’ scorecards with 115-111.

However, and I don’t like to raise matters like this, what was with the Ref Kenny Bayless at the 2nd knockdown in Rnd 7. First, his ref’s count was literally miles out: I had 10 secs pass before he declared 6 in his own count and all told it was 22 seconds from when Ramirez hit the canvas until the boxers engaged.

I genuinely believe the Ref stopped Josh Taylor earning a KO at that point because Ramirez fell hard from that beautiful uppercut and was out of it. I must confess to be losing confidence in Bayless as a Ref now. There is always some point of contention. Josh Taylor complained after the fight that Bayless constantly threatened him all night he was going to deduct points for talking to Ramirez which Taylor insists he wasn’t doing. These Boxers at elite level are warriors and risk far too much for their livelihood to be impacted upon by incompetent referring.

But I don’t want to dwell too much on what happens next for Taylor, no doubt he will be inundated with offers but I do hope he honours Jack Catterall’s WBO mandatory that he stepped aside for to allow the unification fight to happen. I imagine that would be the perfect home-coming fight to take place in Edinburgh at the Castle that Josh craves. If that fight happens you must travel to see that one. However, other than a rematch with Regis Prograis I reckon he has pretty much cleaned out the division. Based on Saturday’s performances I wouldn’t consider Jose Zepeda to be at Taylor’s level. With that, I must ask, do you feel that Taylor already has a hall of fame career?

So, MM time to finish. I wonder just how this work in progress that is Taylor would measure up to some of the more random recent 140lb champions in recent years, namely:

Josh Taylor v Kosta Tszyu

v Ricky Hatton

v Amir Khan (when under Freddie Roach’s guidance)

v Miguel Cotto

v ODLH

As always Dougie, I trust both you and the family are all well. Let’s keep our fingers crossed that more of the current boxing champions dare to dream and take a leaf from Taylor’s and Ramirez’s book by having desire to be their division’s undisputed champion. Kind regards. – Raymond, Tranent, Scotland

Jermell Charlo, The Ring/WBC/WBA/IBF 154-pound champ is headed toward a unification showdown with WBO titleholder Brian Castano.

Well, Ring lightweight champ Teofimo Lopez showed that desire prior to Taylor-Ramirez, Ring 154-pound champ Jermell Charlo is showing it going into his undisputed title match vs. WBO beltholder Brian Castano in July, and Ring super middleweight champ Canelo Alvarez has made it clear that his goal for 2021 is face IBF titleholder Caleb Plant for all the marbles at 168. I think the top two heavyweights – Ring/WBC champ Tyson Fury and unified beltholder Anthony Joshua – have a desire to be the undisputed king of the glamor division, but all the money and egos and the business side of the sport continues to get in the way of their showdown. But if Fury takes care of Deontay Wilder and Joshua does the same with Aleksandr Usyk (a former undisputed champ himself), I think they’ll force the fight to happen – hopefully in late 2021, but probably sometime in the first half of 2022.

So, I think we’re seeing a trend among elite fighters and those who truly desire to be viewed as elite, and I like it better than the division-hopping that has been en vouge since the 1980s, but has lost its luster with 17 weight classes and four major sanctioning bodies, which produce more than one “world title” per division.

Your Mythical Matchups:

Josh Taylor v Kostya TszyuTszyu by close UD

v Ricky HattonTaylor by close UD or MD

v Amir Khan (under Roach’s guidance)Taylor by close UD

v Miguel CottoCotto by close, maybe controversial UD/MD

v ODLHDe La Hoya by competitive but clear UD (especially the Jesus Rivero-trained version of TGB)

I hope you had a good birthday weekend just past. It was a good one. My wife accompanied me to a comic shop on Melrose I’d never been to before, and purchased $200 worth of floppies, TPB (including volumes 1-8 of The Immortal Hulk, which is GREAT) and graphic novels; then we had a nice steak dinner and ice cream. That’s all I needed on my birthday (May 20). I’m a simple man. Watching the elite-level skill and valor on display during the Taylor-Ramirez showdown at my buddy Tom Loeffler’s place (with the great Coach Schwartz and Dean and Jake Familton present) was icing on the proverbial cake.

As a self-confessed fan-boy of Josh Taylor it felt like all my birthdays and festive seasons came at once with my boy’s outstanding performance Saturday to become the undisputed 140-lb beltholder. Anyone who’s been a Taylor supporter from Day One (or at least since the Scotsman stopped Ohara Davies in 2017) has reason to celebrate. That was a significant victory.

Taylor is 18 fights into his career and Undisputed champion – Wow, 18 fights! How much kudos can we give this man for his willingness just to fight the best there is available to him? I think Taylor deserves to be among the Top Five in the Pound-for-Pound rankings. He beat quality, undefeated junior welterweights to unify all the major belts – 19-0 Ivan Baranchyk (No. 5 or 6 in The Ring rankings at the time Taylor faced him), 24-0 Regis Prograis (No. 1 at the time) and 26-0 Ramirez (also No. 1). That terrific trio had a combined record of 69-0 when Taylor fought them.

And boy, is he turning up at these events: I personally scored the Ramirez match slightly wider for Josh than the judges’ scorecards with 115-111. That’s the tally that Andre Ward had, and you know as well as I do that he can do no wrong, so you’re in good company.

What was with the Ref Kenny Bayless at the 2nd knockdown in Rnd 7. Bayless has become the new Joe Cortez (who, despite his catch phrase, was neither “firm” nor “fair” as he got older). I thought he slowed around with allowing the fight to resume after Ramirez immediately popped up following the first knockdown Taylor scored. After giving him a deliberately slow eight count, he has Ramirez walk to him and then wipes off his gloves. With the second knockdown, he actually helped Taylor set up the uppercut on the inside by touching Ramirez’s arm but not audibly calling for a break, as historian and CompuBox guru Lee Groves astutely pointed out on his Twitter account. Ramirez was distracted, momentarily relaxed in anticipation of Bayless either calling “break” or stepping between them, and then Taylor took advantage of the poor officiating and blasted the poor Californian with beautiful uppercut.

First, his ref’s count was literally miles out: I had 10 secs pass before he declared 6 in his own count and all told it was 22 seconds from when Ramirez hit the canvas until the boxers engaged. No disrespect to Ramirez or his team because I know they’ve got nothing to do with it, but from where I was sitting it looked like Bayless was trying to look out for the American fighter.

I genuinely believe the Ref stopped Josh Taylor earning a KO at that point because Ramirez fell hard from that beautiful uppercut and was out of it. I don’t know about that. I thought Ramirez got up clear-headed from both knockdowns and was ready to punch back with gusto.

I must confess to be losing confidence in Bayless as a Ref now. He’s past his prime. Period. I don’t like it when he’s assigned major fights in Vegas.

But I don’t want to dwell too much on what happens next for Taylor, no doubt he will be inundated with offers but I do hope he honours Jack Catterall’s WBO mandatory that he stepped aside for to allow the unification fight to happen. I think he will.

I imagine that would be the perfect home-coming fight to take place in Edinburgh at the Castle that Josh craves. If that fight happens you must travel to see that one. I doubt I’ll be doing that, but sign me up for Taylor-Prograis II wherever that fight might land.

Based on Saturday’s performances I wouldn’t consider Jose Zepeda to be at Taylor’s level. Yeah, but I don’t that’s the version of Zepeda that would show up for Taylor.

With that, I must ask, do you feel that Taylor already has a hall of fame career? He’s not there yet but he’s clearly headed in the right direction.

 

BOXING IS ALIVE AND WELL

Dougie,

I’d like to wish you and all of the other hardcore fans a Happy Birthday! The masks may be off, but the gloves were definitely on giving us all a gift to remember. I thought all three fights delivered and on basic cable to boot! You know I love the Sport and can usually find good on any card, but how many PPV’s deliver 3 fights this entertaining?

I’ll be short, because I know everyone will have much to say about Taylor and Ramirez (I). I’m thinking Trilogy for these guys, but Taylor’s options make my head spin. Another fight with Prograis is a can’t miss, Lopez has to be on the menu, Garcia won’t make 135 much longer. The one question I don’t know is how easy does Taylor make 140? I thought he looked much bigger than Ramirez, so maybe waiting on the big names to move up from 135 is too much to ask. Play manager for both Taylor and Ramirez, what’s the next play, how long do you allow for recovery, etc…

Again, Happy Birthday!!! Boxing is definitely back in a big way!!!!

Thanks for the great work and I wish you continued success. – Scott

Thanks for the birthday wishes, Scott.

In a perfect world, I’d have Ramirez (maybe after a break and a tune-up) take on Prograis, and the winner challenge the undisputed champ in an anticipated rematch. Both Jose and Regis fought courageous and very close fights against Taylor, so both are deserving of a second shot, but who should get first crack? Let them fight for that right! There’s no way it wouldn’t be an awesome barnburner, which would just create more hype and momentum toward the Taylor rematch.

However, I think major showdowns with fellow pound-for-pound players Teofimo Lopez and/or Terence Crawford are what Taylor will push for, and I’m all for him daring to be great.

The one question I don’t know is how easy does Taylor make 140? He didn’t look dried out at all at the weigh-in to my eyes, and I thought he was fast and strong during the fight, so I assume he can still make junior welterweight without draining himself.

I thought he looked much bigger than Ramirez, so maybe waiting on the big names to move up from 135 is too much to ask. Taylor’s definitely got the frame to carry 147 pounds, but I think he would be willing to wait on the likes of Lopez and Ryan Garcia to challenge him at 140. Those would be HUGE fights.

 

UNDISPUTED

Morning Dougie,

I can’t help myself but write in after that.

What. A. Fight.

Firstly, respect to the warrior that is Jose Ramirez. Never stopped trying or coming forward and no quit in that dude.

The night belongs to the Tartan Tornado. I will happily say that when the decision was announced, my best friend and I started crying. Finally, Scotland has a claim to fame on the international sports scene.

Thoughts on the fight and where both fantastic fighters go from here? Have you ever had a fighter that you’ve been so emotionally invested in? Thank you. – Euan, Dunfermline, Scotland

Of course! I was that way with Muhammad Ali and Sugar Ray Leonard when I was a kid (and I remained that way with Leonard until the Hagler fight in ’87). In the ’90s I was like that with Kostya Tszyu and Marco Antonio Barrera. It hurt when they took their first “L,” and even more so when much of the boxing world wrote them off. But then it was even sweeter when they bounced back. I was like that with Edwin Valero in the early-to-mid-2000s, especially prior to his first title shot in 2006. I’d tabbed him for big things early on, so my rep and pride were on the line when he fought. The only fighter that I feel emotionally tied to now is “Chocolatito.”

Having said that, I was very pleased with Taylor’s victory even though I really didn’t have a horse in that race. But I’d been high on him for years, picked him to win the fight, and I’d felt that The Ring had disrespected him by not ranking him in our pound-for-pound top 10 following the Prograis victory (shame on us even though it was a mistake that we later rectified), so it made me feel good to see him prevail and receive the overdue respect from fans, media and boxing insiders from around the world.

As for where Taylor and Ramirez go from here, I think your hero has got some bona-fide superfights on deck, while I wouldn’t be surprised if Jose jumped to 147 before the Scotsman does.

 

WONDERFUL BOXING WEEKEND

Hey Doug,

What a great boxing weekend! I’ve been thoroughly looking forward for that Taylor-Ramirez fight and I’m so happy my pick for Taylor was right. Some people thought that the week of their fight, they’re not the focus because of so much news about Pac-Spence and the Heavyweight brouhaha. Nonetheless, I think it only made boxing more exciting because people are tuning in (hardcore and some casuals) knowing that a lot is happening.

Back to Taylor, I think he is really talented, more than Ramirez going to the fight. Prograis was actually better than Ramirez if compared to their previous performance. There’s reason why he and his team didn’t make him join the 140 WBSS tourney before. That knockdown in Round 7 was supposed to be the ending if Bayless didn’t help.

I hope Taylor stays at 140 for more fights. Maybe he can go 147 if he wants to fight Crawford but still there are so many great fights for him in 140. Crawford leaving 140 before was because there was no one good left at that division. Who do you think wins btw between Taylor and either Teofimo if he comes up, Crawford and Prograis II?

P.S. Although I want to see the heavyweight undisputed fight, it’s actually nice to see Joshua vs. Usyk too (not that much interested in Wilder-Fury III but I’ll still watch it). The sports is on for a couple of GREAT fights. PAC AND SPENCE! (Win or lose, Pac is a warrior and a living breathing legend to fight such a formidable champ.)

Thanks for the time and I hope you enjoyed the weekend too with your bday. Thanks. – Djbianca Frost

Thank you for sharing your thoughts with us, DJF.

Pacquiao is the real deal, Usyk is a real challenger for Joshua, and Fury-Wilder 3 is a real grudge match. Toss in Haney-Linares, Oubaali-Donaire, Charlo-Castano, Tank vs. Barrios, Diaz Jr.- and Casimero-Rigo and we’re talking about a HOT boxing summer.

Back to Taylor, I think he is really talented, more than Ramirez going to the fight. Agreed. I think he proved it to all of his doubters with his performance and those two knockdowns.

Prograis was actually better than Ramirez if compared to their previous performance. It’s a matter of opinion, but Prograis was rated higher than Ramirez prior to losing to Taylor.

There’s a reason why he and his team didn’t make him join the 140 WBSS tourney before. I wasn’t happy about that decision, along with a legion of hardcore heads, but Ramirez has only faced world-class opposition since winning his WBC title and his WBO unification victory over Maurice Hooker (in Mo’s hometown, on a card promoted by Mo’s promoter/platform) was a boss move. I’ve only got respect for Ramirez, even more so following his gutsy effort vs. Taylor.

That knockdown in Round 7 was supposed to be the ending if Bayless didn’t help. Believe it or not, Bayless was one of the best refs – arguably THE best ref – in boxing during the late 1990s and early 2000s.

I hope Taylor stays at 140 for more fights. I think he will.

Maybe he can go to 147 if he wants to fight Crawford but still there are so many great fights for him in 140. He could possibly challenge Bud at welterweight and then drop back down to 140 if he’s unsuccessful.

Crawford leaving 140 before was because there was no one good left at that division. The division is a lot deeper now.

Who do you think wins btw between Taylor and either Teofimo if he comes up, Crawford and Prograis II? I think Crawford deserves to be a solid favorite, and I would pick him to win a decision, but those Lopez and Prograis are even fights. I don’t have favorites in those matchups. I just want to see ’em!

 

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