Dougie’s Monday Mailbag (The Charlos, Luis Nery, undisputed status)
I hope you and your family are well. Saturday was a great day of boxing! What a bizarre body-shot KO to end the day.
I really enjoyed the double-header, and I hope they do more of them. Someday, when fans return, it makes sense to me to do separate locations on PPV double headers. The added money could improve the undercards. I also enjoyed the pace of the night with one of the big fights in the middle. Anyway, just wanted to register a fan’s approval and that I hope it happens more often.
Cheers. – B. from Steubenville, Ohio
I’ll pass that along to Stephen Espinoza, B. (We don’t follow each other on Twitter but I know how to get his attention, I’ll just say something critical about a Floyd Mayweather Showtime PPV.)
But seriously, I agree that the doubleheader was quality boxing programming, especially the co-main events of Jermall Charlo vs. Sergiy Derevyanchenko and Jermell Charlo vs. Rosario. I thought the Showtime broadcast team was excellent as usual, especially Brian Custer, who is near perfect as the host in my opinion. The only gripe I’ve got (and I really don’t have a right to bitch too much being on the West Coast) is that it was too long. I’m a firm believer of less is more when it comes to entertainment, be it theater, TV, film or sporting events. Going forward, if they’re going to have two undercard bouts for each half of the doubleheader, I think they should either make sure one of the two bouts is likely going to end in a knockout by the middle rounds. I’d prefer just one undercard bout if it’s going to be a 12-rounder with “distance” written all over it.
Also, as someone with broadcast booth experience, I understand that commentators need to take a piss break during really long cards, however, the next time they do an intermission it should be no more than 20 minutes.
Regarding that jab-to-the-body KO that Charlo scored against Rosario, I think it was more “beauty” than “bizarre,” but my Twitter TL was littered with skeptical fans (and some fighters) questioning the legitimacy of the stoppage. All I have to say to that nonsense is if Banana was acting, he deserves a damn Academy Award.
Well it was certainly worth the $74.99. Even though I didn’t think we needed to pay for either of these fights, the packaged fights were mostly entertaining and the main events delivered. Maybe they weren’t fight of the year quality results, but they had me watching every single round.
Both Charlo’s impressed me in different ways. Jermall’s victory over Sergey Derevyanchenko was a pretty solid scrap. It’s obvious that Sergiy’s war with GGG left some lasting injuries that will never heal (one of those cuts seemed to be the one GGG opened in the second round of their fight) and of course that affected his overall performance, but hey, that’s not Charlo’s problem. He took advantage of Sergiy’s weariness and slow start to build a comfortable lead (at least in most people’s eyes, not mine). I did think that the fight was way closer than what Showtime scorer Steve Farhood had it and thought Sergiy even came ahead in the middle rounds. But in the end Jermall found a way to adjust and took the later rounds to win solidly. I had it 115-113 for Charlo and thought it was a tough fight that he had to dig in his arsenal to pull it off which I found impressive.
I still think he’s like the 3rd best Middleweight, I don’t see him beating this version of GGG or even Danny Jacobs. I also felt he lacks the world class middleweight power that these two have to be the best in the division. Who knows, I may be wrong and he might be the future.
In the second main event, Jermell (who’s my favorite of the two twins) showed the aggressiveness that I love and ended up knocking out the fragile but tough Rosario. This was another fight I had totally different than Farhood. I had Rosario winning most rounds he was not on the floor. I felt he was landing the stronger damaging punches and even outboxing Jermell. In the end that strong punch to the belly took his air out and that was it. Very impressive.
I also think he lacks certain things to be a pound for pound entrant. I don’t see him beating any of the welterweight champs if they go up nor him being successful at a higher weight class with his last two performances (in which he lost most rounds and came back with a KO, wasn’t he supposed to be the one that lacked power?).
Still, I though they did a very very good job in establishing themselves as solid players and maybe future stars if they’re managed well. I like the Charlo’s and I hope they continue this path. They’re showing us things I didn’t expect when they started.
Luis Nery, I almost didn’t want to talk about him, but I also thought his fight was way closer than what the scorecards had it. He was being countered and outboxed in a lot of rounds and nobody seemed to pay attention to it. I just don’t like Nery. He’s one of the few boxers that I genuinely root against and hope loses. Not only has he missed weight and been positive for prohibited substances, he also talks a lot of crap on social media, which isn’t a good combination after you’ve f**d up so many times.
How do you see Nery competing against the top dogs in this division? How do you see Jermall vs GGG and Jacobs? Do you think Jermell can be successful against the top middleweights or against guys like Spence, Porter, Crawford or Thurman if they go up to challenge him?
Thanks! – Juan Valverde, San Diego
Jermell just won the Ring Magazine junior middleweight title (and he’s got three of the four major sanctioning organization belts). He’s THE 154-pound champ in my view. I don’t think he should be thinking about the middleweights. That’s his brother’s domain. And I don’t think he should concern himself with the welterweight standouts until they are ready to step up and challenge him (and I wouldn’t hold my breath for that to happen). I think he’s got plenty of action in the junior middleweight division. There’s Julian Williams, Jarret Hurd, Erislandy Lara, Brian Castano, and a rubbermatch with Tony Harrison. And then he’s got his mandatories for the alphabet belts – let’s pause for a sarcastic “yay!” – which is Erickson Lubin (again – one more sarcastic “yay!” – for the WBC), Bakhram Murtazaliev (IBF), and for the WBA, I’m not sure if it’s Lara (the “regular” champ), Michel Soro (the “gold” champ) or Israil Madrimov (the No. 1 contender). Regardless, this group of potential opponents could keep him busy for the next 3-4 years.
Regarding Nery vs. the best of the 122-pound division, my hunch is that he’s a cat who needs to have a weight/strength advantage to operate at his best and he’s not going to have that against the best of this weight class. I think Rey Vargas would box his ears off in a very frustrating fight (for Nery and the fans), Morodjon Akhmadaliev would outmuscle and outhustle him over 12 entertaining rounds, and I wouldn’t be surprised if Stephen Fulton took him to school. Scrappers like Danny Roman, Brandon Figueroa, Angelo Leo and Azat Hovhannisyan won’t be intimidated by Nery and will give as good as they get in battles of attrition. I’m not saying Nery can’t beat those guys, he’d probably be the odds favorite against all four, but he’s not going to steamroll anyone like he did at 118 pounds.
Jermall’s victory over Sergey Derevyanchenko was a pretty solid scrap. It was truly world class competition – they boxed well and fought hard, adapting as they needed along the way. And their head trainers were sensational between rounds.
It’s obvious that Sergiy’s war with GGG left some lasting injuries that will never heal (one of those cuts seemed to be the one GGG opened in the second round of their fight) and of course that affected his overall performance, but hey, that’s not Charlo’s problem. I told y’all that dude looked like the Toxic Avenger after the Golovkin fight, that scrap was had on BOTH middleweights. But you know what? Derevyanchenko is mutant tough like the Toxic Avenger. I was as impressed with his effort as I was with Jermall’s technique and tenacity.
He took advantage of Sergiy’s weariness and slow start to build a comfortable lead (at least in most people’s eyes, not mine). I thought there were some close early rounds, but I Charlo had the edge through the first four in my eyes. He outjabbed Derevyanchenko from a distance and nailed him in close with uppercuts and hooks.
I did think that the fight was way closer than what Showtime scorer Steve Farhood had it and thought Sergiy even came ahead in the middle rounds. I almost saw it the same as you by this point. I scored Rounds 5-8 for Derevyanchenko, who simply outworked Charlo in the middle rounds, making the fight even (76-76) after eight rounds.
But in the end Jermall found a way to adjust and took the later rounds to win solidly. I had it 115-113 for Charlo and thought it was a tough fight that he had to dig in his arsenal to pull it off which I found impressive. Yes, I view this fight as a “gut check” for Charlo. It should serve him well going forward. I also scored it 115-113 for Jermall, who won Rounds 9-11 on my card. I thought Derevyanchenko’s desperate final minute rally stole Round 12. Too little too late for the Ukrainian Bridesmaid.
I still think he’s like the 3rd best Middleweight, I don’t see him beating this version of GGG or even Danny Jacobs. My guess is that the Ring Ratings Panel will move him up to No. 2 in the middleweight rankings, behind only the Ring champ, Canelo Alvarez, and No. 1-rated Golovkin. I think GGG-Charlo would be a very close contest (and entertaining). I give GGG a slight edge based on his still-elite jab (something Derevyanchenko didn’t have) and punching power. I would have loved to see Charlo-Jacobs when those two were sniping at each other, but DJ is now at 168 pounds and I don’t see Charlo going up to super middleweight anytime soon.
I also felt he lacks the world class middleweight power that these two have to be the best in the division. Who knows, I may be wrong and he might be the future. I think he punches hard enough to get respect from any middleweight. He’s not Tommy Hearns, but that’s OK, he’s steadily rounding out his game and seems on his way to developing into a complete boxer.
In the second main event, Jermell (who’s my favorite of the two twins) showed the aggressiveness that I love and ended up knocking out the fragile but tough Rosario. He’s fun to watch, no doubt. But sometimes he seems too keyed up to me. There were times that intensity and “tightness” worked against him during his two bouts with Harrison and in spots vs. Rosario. Charlo would load up with one big shot and miss his mark. But I’m not complaining. He’s got that Terry Norris mentality and I like that.
This was another fight I had totally different than Farhood. I had Rosario winning most rounds he was not on the floor. I agreed with Farhood. I thought Charlo boxed well enough in Round 3 and 5 to win without dropping Rosario. But I thought Rosario was getting good work done in each round and I was impressed with his relaxed demeanor as he walked down the house fighter/odds favorite.
I felt he was landing the stronger damaging punches and even outboxing Jermell. I think Jermell proved that his shots were more damaging. I believe that fight-ending jab was the result of an accumulation of punishment Rosario took over the previous seven rounds.
In the end that strong punch to the belly took his air out and that was it. Very impressive. That how you close the show!
I also think he lacks certain things to be a pound for pound entrant. The Ring Ratings Panel (mainly Panelist Adam Abramowitz and Associate Editor Tom Gray) had an extended argument about whether Charlo is worthy of a top-10 ranking. I’ll give y’all the blow-by-blow in this week’s Ring Ratings Update column.
I don’t see him beating any of the welterweight champs if they go up nor him being successful at a higher weight class with his last two performances (in which he lost most rounds and came back with a KO, wasn’t he supposed to be the one that lacked power?). I disagree. I don’t think I’d favor any of the current 147-pound titleholders, save for maybe Terence Crawford, to beat Charlo at 154 pounds. He and Errol Spence are gymmates with the same trainer, I doubt they ever fight, but I think Jermell’s size and versatility, plus his speed and power would be too much for The Truth. Manny Pacquiao is just too small and old. I think Charlo would clip him. Charlo-Crawford is an interesting matchup because of Bud’s versatility and ability to be relaxed during a bout even when he’s fighting mad, but the fight might more sense if (as a friend of mine recently suggested) Crawford grabs the WBO 154-pound belt from the Teixeira-Castano winner first and then challenges Charlo for all the marbles.
Still, I thought they did a very very good job in establishing themselves as solid players and maybe future stars if they’re managed well. I like the Charlos and I hope they continue this path. Same here. If they continue to beat this level of opposition, I believe they have star potential. As it is, I think they’re worthy of the next Ring Magazine cover.
They’re showing us things I didn’t expect when they started. I called some of their early pro fights when they were 10-0 prospects. I thought they had the talent and technique (lets credit Ronnie Shields and whoever coached them as amateurs for strong foundations) to make serious noise.
Luis Nery, I almost didn’t want to talk about him, but I also thought his fight was way closer than what the scorecards had it. He clearly struggles with lateral movement and a “cutie” boxing style.
I just don’t like Nery. He’s one of the few boxers that I genuinely root against and hope loses. I have to admit that I’m still salty about what happened with both of his fights with Shinsuke Yamanaka.
Not only has he missed weight and been positive for prohibited substances, he also talks a lot of crap on social media, which isn’t a good combination after you’ve f**d up so many times. I guess he’s from the Jarrell Miller/Billy Joe Saunders school of denial and attitude. That’s too bad.
Greetings, blessings and the upmost respect sir.
Short and sweet my question is when did it become a requirement for a champion to hold all four “major” title belts in order to be recognized as undisputed?
If I am not mistaken Joe Calzaghe was a three belt plus Ring/lineal champion at 168 but was viewed as undisputed. Lennox Lewis also held distinction as well if I am not mistaken.
In the case of Jermell Charlo being WBC/IBF/WBA/Ring magazine champion is this enough to argue being undisputed champion considering the level of competition and lineal status.
Thank you for your time. Peace. – Jack from Detroit
I consider Charlo the real champ at 154 pounds because he did enough to earn The Ring. I think he’s got universal recognition as THE champ even though he’s technically not undisputed because the current WBO titleholder, Patrick Teixeira, is not regarded as a legit threat to him or an elite junior middleweight. (For context, the Brazilian, who I respect and view as a tough grinder with underrated boxing ability, is rated No. 10 in The Ring’s junior middleweight rankings.)
Lewis gained undisputed champion status because he unified the WBA, WBC and IBF titles by outpointing Evander Holyfield in 1999 when the WBO (which was formed in 1988) was still viewed as a fringe sanctioning organization. Same deal with Bernard Hopkins who unified the WBA, WBC and IBF titles by stopping Felix Trinidad in 2001; and Kostya Tszyu, who unified the same three belts by stopping Zab Judah in the same year.
The WBO didn’t become a part of the undisputed unification package until Hopkins, the reigning Ring middleweight champ, added the WBO belt to his collection by stopping Oscar De La Hoya in 2004.
Calzaghe should have unified all four belts in 2007 when he out pointed Mikkel Kessler, but the IBF had to get in the way of that goal (as they continue to do) by tossing their mandatory, the unworthy Robert Stieglitz in Joe’s face shortly after he unified WBO and IBF straps by dominating poor Jeff Lacy over 12 rounds in 2006. Calzaghe vacated the IBF, which was won by Alejandro Berrio, who took out Stieglitz in three rounds, and then went on to unify the WBO, WBA and WBC titles vs. Kessler. Calzaghe, who earned the Ring Magazine super middleweight title with the Lacy victory, had universal recognition as THE champ following the Kessler victory because he had won all four belts and hadn’t lost a fight (and let’s face it, nobody was looking at Berrio as any kind of world beater).
How would Jermall handle 168 at this point? – Kevin Key, Duluth, Mn
I think Jermall proved to be an elite middleweight on Saturday, but I believe the cream of the 168-pound crop would give him a run for his money, and I’m talking about the Ring Magazine champ, Callum Smith, and the top five: David Benavidez, Caleb Plant, Anthony Dirrell, Canelo Alvarez and Billy Joe Saunders. The size of Smith and Benavidez will be a problem. The lateral movement and slick southpaw styles of Plant and Saunders would be troublesome. The speed and experience of Dirrell would challenge Charlo. The experience, defense, body attack and accurate counterpunching of Canelo would sternly test Charlo.
I’m not saying he can’t win some of these fights, in fact, I wouldn’t be shocked if he upset Smith and Dirrell, but I envision really tough fights for him at 168.
LIKE FATHER, UNLIKE SON
Junior never seems to disappoint, does he?
Except probably his dad. – Rodemeyer
I didn’t bother watching the Chavez doubleheader on Friday, but the only thing that surprised me about Junior’s performance was that fans on my Twitter TL actually gave a s__t about it. I think that says more about them than him.
It’s obvious to me that he hasn’t been serious about boxing since the showdown with Sergio Martinez (and it can be debated if he really trained as he should have for that Ring/WBC title bout in 2012), with the possible exception of the Bryan Vera rematch in 2014.
I hope his old man is OK with him, though. In fact, I hope Senior is proud of what his son accomplished in boxing when Junior was serious and training with Freddie Roach. Junior is the first Mexican boxer to win a version of the middleweight title (the WBC, of course) vs. Sebastian Zbik in Los Angeles in 2011, and he had a short but respectable title reign over the next year with defenses against Peter Manfredo, Marco Antonio Rubio and Andy Lee.