Thursday, March 28, 2024  |

News

Aficianado

Dougie’s Monday mailbag (ESPN’s take on titles, Joshua-Miller, rating ‘AJ’)

Should ESPN's commentators have snubbed the "regular" WBA middleweight title Rob Brant defended against Khasan Baysangurov? Photo by Mikey Williams-TOP RANK
Fighters Network
18
Feb

ESPN CARD, REGULAR TITLE = WORLD CHAMPION?

Hey Doug,

I think I’m in the first generation of combat sports fans that actually started out watching MMA and only recently discovered boxing. My weekend social life slowed down after college and I’ve been filling that time with boxing. The Ring and the 3KR and Tale of the Tape podcasts have really helped take me from intrigued to a passionate fan. Best compliment I can give you is to say that reading The Ring makes it easy to go from new comer to lifetime fan and I want to sincerely thank you for that.

Anyway, I enjoyed Friday’s ESPN card and was thrilled to see Andre Ward and Tim Bradley back calling the fight together. The bosses in Bristol struck gold with this pairing; these guys are engaging, informative and are already second only to the Showtime crew in my opinion.



Joshua Greer won me over immediately by wearing a Bears themed robe in Minnesota (the Chicago Bears and Minnesota Vikings are big rivals in American football), but the low left hand and circling into the right that dropped him gave a lot of opportunities to a very game but limited opponent. I wish we’d heard his corner’s instructions. They had to have mentioned this right? I hope he can tighten things up, but he has a new fan here either way.

I know some of the traditional guys don’t care for women’s boxing, but anyone with the (metaphorical) balls to step in there and fight to try and finish has my attention. Good looks and good skills have made some women a lot of money in other sports, why shouldn’t Mikaela Mayer be able to do it in this one?

Full credit to Rob Brant for closing the show in front of his home state crowd instead of playing it safe and out-boxing his way to a decision win. Also, a great stoppage by the ref, no need to let Khasan B. eat a few more shots and get dropped yet again. Any way we can smuggle that man into Texas?

The only real fault I can find with the card was the way it was marketed. Throughout the night ESPN referred to Brant as a world champion despite the fact that he only holds a “regular” belt. Maybe it’s because I’m still semi-new to boxing, but the fact that four redundant sanctioning bodies name four different “champions” in every single division is already absurd to me. Doing it all over again to make 8 “champions” is just taking the piss as our UK friends would say.

In the past I think ESPN has done a good job of balancing journalistic integrity with the desire to boost the ratings of sports events they broadcast, so this stood out as odd to me. As one of the top journalists in boxing, what are your thoughts on calling regular title holders “world champions?”

It doesn’t matter much to me since I use The Ring ratings to tell me where each division stands, but it seems a bit misleading to casual fans.

(I just realized this might be par for the course and I may have just embarrassed myself…Is this how Broner became a “world champion in 4 weight classes?”)

Thanks again for all the great work you do, it’s been a fun first year of reading your work with many more to follow. – Daniel, CA

Welcome to wonderful, whacky world of boxing, Daniel. Thank you for your very kind words about The Ring magazine. It fills me with pride to know that Ring helped bring you over to the “Dark Side.”

My thoughts on Brant being referred to as a “champion” during ESPN’s broadcast of the first defense of his “regular” WBA middleweight title is that it wasn’t that big of a deal. The Ring doesn’t recognize the WBA’s “non-super” world titleholders, and we’re generally not in the habit of calling fighters who don’t hold Ring titles “champions,” but I understand why ESPN would choose to give the secondary belt that Brant holds some credence.

For starters, they want to be respectful of the fighter. Brant, like any pro fighter who wins a major sanctioning organization title, views himself as a “champion,” not a “beltholder” or “titleholder” or “strapholder.” Half of ESPN’s broadcast booth are former champions (Tim Bradley and Andre Ward). These two understand how fighters feel and they’re not going to minimize a boxer’s accomplishments. The non-boxer commentators (Joe Tessitore and Mark Kriegel) respect the opinions of their former athlete-colleagues.

It should be noted that Kriegel mentioned that “the WBA has too many fugazi belts” during the “Two Kinds of Upsets” lead-in feature to Brant-Baysangurov that he wrote and narrated. However, the purpose of features like that are to tell a story about the fighter, or to help set the stage for the upcoming fight, or to explain the significance of the main event. It’s not meant to delve into the mind-numbing politics of the boxing business. I’m sure the promoters and the producers of ESPN’s Friday show did not want to spend time explaining how there are two WBA middleweight titles and how the one that Brant holds is bulls__t. That would bog down the broadcast, devalue the main event and the fighter they’re doing business with, and it would likely turn off casual fans.

Are they misleading casual fans a bit, as you claim? Yeah, a bit. But they kept it real for the most part (I like that they mentioned all the top middleweights that fight on other networks/platforms) and I thought all of the commentators (Bernardo Osuna included) did a great job. I enjoyed their call on all three fights. The only part of the broadcast that bugged my journalistic side was the way the hyped up Baysangurov just before the main event. I didn’t expect them to crap on the young man (who I’ve met and have a lot of respect for), but my eyes did roll when Bradley said it was a “50-50 fight” and when Ward added that it was a “tough first defense” (or something like that). There was nothing about the 21 year old’s resume that suggested that he could beat or even compete with Brant. They talked about his turning pro at 16, but the flip side to that stat is that he had no amateur career to speak of. I would have mentioned that. And he’s not like Canelo Alvarez, who turned pro at 15 and had 40 pro bouts by the time he turned 21. Baysangurov is inexperienced at the world level despite his WBA ranking. There are no notable names on his record. That should have been stated. Prior to facing Brant, he went 12 rounds with Paul Valenzuela, a tough guy but a bona-fide journeyman. Valenzuela has been stopped (within five rounds) by Jaime Munguia (who blasted him in two), Alantez Fox and Esquiva Falcao. I would have mentioned that.

I enjoyed Friday’s ESPN card and was thrilled to see Andre Ward and Tim Bradley back calling the fight together. The bosses in Bristol struck gold with this pairing; these guys are engaging, informative and are already second only to the Showtime crew in my opinion. They are excellent.

Photo from @TRBoxing/Twitter

Joshua Greer won me over immediately by wearing a Bears themed robe in Minnesota (the Chicago Bears and Minnesota Vikings are big rivals in American football), but the low left hand and circling into the right that dropped him gave a lot of opportunities to a very game but limited opponent. As Greer stated himself, he wasn’t an amateur standout and he didn’t get serious about the sport until his late teens. So, he’s learning his tough craft on the job. However, Greer is an active prospect and I know he gets good work in the gym. (I watched him spar with featherweight prospect/contender Tugstsogt Nyambayar at his trainer’s old gym in Northridge, California, late last year.) So I know he’s getting an education and with his talent and desire, I’m sure he’ll continue to improve.

I know some of the traditional guys don’t care for women’s boxing, but anyone with the (metaphorical) balls to step in there and fight to try and finish has my attention. Good looks and good skills have made some women a lot of money in other sports, why shouldn’t Mikaela Mayer be able to do it in this one? I

Photo by Mikey Williams/Top Rank

think she’s doing it right now.

Full credit to Rob Brant for closing the show in front of his home state crowd instead of playing it safe and out-boxing his way to a decision win. Brant’s got a wonderful attitude and a very entertaining boxing style. I love volume punchers. I think Brant (The Ring’s No. 4-rated middleweight) matches very up well with the lower top-10 contenders (Jermall Charlo, Sergey Derevyanchenko, David Lemieux). Those would be entertaining fights.

 

AJ VS. BIG BABY

Hi Dougie,

Hope you the team and family are well.

So, everyone already sh***ing on AJ vs Miller. It’s not the fight we wanted. But let’s take stock.

Wilder vs Fury 2. Definitely want to see that!

Whyte vs Breazeale. When Whyte lays out Breazeale, he is mandatory for pretty much all the belts. Would love to see him in with Wilder/Fury winner. Win, lose or draw, if he has a decent fight with either or both, AJ vs Whyte will still be meaningful.

So, with Wilder, Fury, Whyte, Breazeale all busy, who’s left?

Ortiz?

Pulev?

Rematch with Takam?

All more worthy than Miller.

However, I’m not hardcore against seeing AJ vs Miller. The build up will be entertaining, Miller’s got a decent work rate and is massive. So just hoping for a good fight before AJ finished off him off. KO in round 6?

What’s your take on all the BS about splits being the reason AJ vs anyone of note is not happening?

I do understand what AJ and Hearn are saying. That 5% of an AJ fight is much more than any split the other top 5 heavyweights can make. But…..

People are sort of falling out of love with AJ?

Some say he’s doing a “Mayweather” and waiting for the best time to beat the rest?

IMHO, I think AJ is willing to fight them all and will end up top of the pile. Fury on a good night has the ability to beat him I feel.

But for now, I’m ok with the others upsetting the AJ apple cart. Keeps it all interesting.

Keep up the good work. – Tabraze, London, UK

Will do, Tabraze.

As I stated in Friday’s mailbag, I’m just fine with Anthony Joshua facing Jarrell Miller in his U.S. debut. Miller isn’t as accomplished as the other heavyweight contenders that you mentioned (Luis Ortiz, Kubrat Pulev and Carlos Takam), but that doesn’t mean that those three are more “worthy” than he is to fight for Joshua’s titles. The Belizean Brooklynite is unbeaten, seemingly at the peak of his athletic prowess, and those other three heavyweights you mentioned HAD their title shots. They came up short. It’s Miller’s turn now.

Whyte vs Breazeale. When Whyte lays out Breazeale, he is mandatory for pretty much all the belts. Yes, he SHOULD be No. 1 contender across the board if he beats Dominic Breazeale, but don’t assume that the Brixton Man will “lay out” the rough-and-rugged U.S. Olympian. Breazeale is technically raw in some areas but his heart can’t be questioned, and the Californian is bigger than Whyte.

Would love to see him in with Wilder/Fury winner. Me too. The build-up to a Wilder-Whyte fight would be off the chain as the kids used to say (like, I dunno, 15-20 years ago). And the fight would be intense and potentially explosive.

Win, lose or draw, if he has a decent fight with either or both, AJ vs Whyte will still be meaningful. Of course! I think that’s part of the reason Team AJ opted for Miller in NYC over the Whyte rematch in London in April. That domestic rivalry will always be there as long as both remain at that world-class level.

So, with Wilder, Fury, Whyte, Breazeale all busy, who’s left?

Ortiz? King Kong faces Christian Hammer on March 2 in Brooklyn.

Pulev? The Cobra will return to the ring on March 23 in Los Angeles (according to his trainer, Ken Adams)

Rematch with Takam? Really dude? Takam is only two bouts removed from his title shot loss to Joshua, and one of those fights was a brutal KO loss to Dereck Chisora.

All more worthy than Miller. I respectfully disagree with you, Tabraze.

However, I’m not hardcore against seeing AJ vs Miller. I don’t understand why anyone would be UPSET by the matchup.

The build up will be entertaining, Miller’s got a decent work rate and is massive. True, true and true.

So just hoping for a good fight before AJ finishes off him off. KO in round 6? Nah, I don’t see a KO victory for Joshua. MAYBE he can wear Miller down to late technical stoppage, but I don’t think he’ll do that without digging deep.

What’s your take on all the BS about splits being the reason AJ vs anyone of note is not happening? Well, disagreement on splits pretty much killed any meaningful talks with Team Fury, put off the Whyte rematch for at least one fight, and delayed the negotiations with Miller, so there’s something to that criticism of Team AJ (although some would argue if it should be a criticism – there’s no denying that Joshua is the biggest attraction in the heavyweight division).

People are sort of falling out of love with AJ? He’s irked U.S. hardcores for awhile (the American casuals and general sports fans barely know who he is), and it seems like he’s turning off British fans now.

Some say he’s doing a “Mayweather” and waiting for the best time to beat the rest? Yeah, it sure looks that way. (And I’m laughing at all those so-called fans who gave Mayweather a pass for playing the “businessman role” – or worse, celebrated that insufferable “A-side” blathering from Floyd – for all those years and are now complaining about Joshua or Canelo or Keith Thurman or whoever doing the same thing.)

IMHO, I think AJ is willing to fight them all and will end up top of the pile. Time will tell.

Fury on a good night has the ability to beat him I feel. Fury on a good night beats all the top heavyweights.

 

BOXING LIVES PODCAST

Hello Doug,

I’ve been a boxing fan for almost 40 years and followed you since House of Boxing days. I read your mailbag still regularly and just wanted to thank the contributor to the mailbag last week who recommended the Boxing Lives podcast.

Tris Dixon is someone who I was familiar with from his time as editor with Boxing News and he is an excellent interviewer. I’ve listened to a few of his podcasts this week and all were good but the one that stood out was the interview with Glenn McCrory. I remember following him as he turned pro, fizzled as a heavyweight then became an unlikely champion at cruiser and finished as a name for Lewis. But there was so much more to his life and the interview is hugely entertaining and also movingly poignant. It’s a reminder that so many of the fighters we follow have very rich stories to tell.

Keep up the good work and best to you and yours. Regards. – Dave

Thanks for the kind words and for the longtime follow, Dave. I still haven’t taken the time to listen to Dixon’s Boxing Lives podcast, but I have no doubt that they are quality interviews. Tris is among the most talented active boxing journalists (and you’ll be able to read his advance features on Saturday’s James DeGale-Chris Eubank Jr. showdown right here at RingTV.com). I’ve bookmarked the archived Boxing Lives interviews on listennotes.com. And for the mailbag readers interested in listening to the McCrory podcast, here it is:

 

HOW DOES AJ STACK UP TO OTHER CHAMPS?

Hi Dougie,

I hope you are well.

My letter is to try and destroy the AJ myth that he is taking easy touches I thought I would do a little research into were AJ stands due to all the bashing he is getting recently so using Ring rankings I have looked at who has fought who from Heavyweight down to WW.

Anthony Joshua in his last 2 fights has fought the no. 3 ranked fighters Joseph Parker and Alexander Povetkin, he has also fought Whyte and is due to fight Miller, another top ten ranked fighter. Joshua also beat Klitschko when he was ranked and has collected all but the WBC belt in unification fights.

So how does AJ stack up against boxers in the other divisions.

Cruiserweight – no argument, Usyk has fought Murat Gassiev who was number 2, beat Briedis and Glowacki, both top ten rated fighters and won the WBSS, fought Bellew and is The Ring Champion.

Super MW – Callum Smith has beaten George Groves but no other top-ten ring rated fighter, but won the WBSS belt and is The Ring champion.

MW – Canelo who moved up and fought GGG and moved up again beat Rocky Fielding at Super MW for me has a case for being the no. 1 P4P champion.

Super WW – Jarrett Hurd has fought 2 top ten ranked fighters in Erislandy Lara and Tony Harrison.

WW – the elite division if we listen to the U.S. media. Full of talent. Spence, number 1, has beaten Kell Brook (who is currently not in The Ring top ten) and has a fight lined up with Mikey Garcia. (Does Miller have more chance of an upset than Mikey does is an interesting argument.)

Crawford, the number 2, has just moved up but has only fought one top ten rated fighter at WW in Jeff Horn. Crawford is fighting Amir Khan next, but does Khan have more chance than Miller of pulling off the upset?

Thurman, fair play has been out, but has Danny Garcia and Shawn Porter on his cv.

I have not gone down any further into the lower divisions but when looking at the overall picture AJ’s figures do stack up against the other champions or number ones of their relevant divisions.

Analysing figures does not always show the true picture but it does destroy the myth that AJ has taken an easy route and raises question how he has not, got into the top ten P4P rankings.

I hope my letter promotes healthy debate. Thanks – Andy T

Heavyweights always spark debates, especially popular ones like Joshua.

IBF/WBA/WBO heavyweight titlist Anthony Joshua

IBF/WBA/WBO heavyweight titlist Anthony Joshua

My personal opinion on Joshua is that he deserves to be The Ring’s No. 1 heavyweight for the reasons you listed, and I agree that he measures up well to the heavier Ring champs and top fighters in high-profile divisions. However, despite his considerable accomplishments, I’m OK with our current Pound-for-Pound rankings. Can you make an argument for Joshua replacing Errol Spence at No. 10? Yeah, I think you can, and I would have no problem with that swtichout. But, so far, the Ring Ratings Panel hasn’t brought up the possibility of AJ’s P4P inclusion.  

So how does AJ stack up against boxers in the other divisions.

Cruiserweight – no argument, Usyk has fought Murat Gassiev who was number 2, beat Briedis and Glowacki, both top ten rated fighters and won the WBSS, fought Bellew and is The Ring Champion. Yup, and he currently holds all four major sanctioning organization belts. The man is undisputed at 200 pounds.

Super MW – Callum Smith has beaten George Groves but no other top-ten ring rated fighter, but won the WBSS belt and is The Ring champion. Rocky Fielding, who Smith blasted in one round, was later ranked. If that doesn’t count as a victory over a Ring-rated fighter, then Joshua’s stoppage of Whyte shouldn’t count as a win against a legit top-10 contender because Dillian wasn’t Ring rated at the time of their December 2015 fight. (AJ, who entered at No. 10 in November 2015, had barely cracked the rankings himself.)

MW – Canelo who moved up and fought GGG and moved up again beat Rocky Fielding at Super MW for me has a case for being the no. 1 P4P champion. You are definitely in the minority with that opinion (although BoxRec.com has your back, and the good folks at Golden Boy Promotions respect your view). Still, Canelo is No. 3 in the “mythical rankings” of both The Ring and ESPN, which ain’t too shabby.

Super WW – Jarrett Hurd has fought 2 top ten ranked fighters in Erislandy Lara and Tony Harrison. Austin Trout was The Ring’s No. 5-rated junior middleweight when Hurd (No. 6 at the time) fought the veteran.

WW – the elite division if we listen to the U.S. media. Don’t listen to the U.S. media. The light heavyweight, junior welterweight, junior lightweight, featherweight, bantamweight, junior bantamweight and junior flyweight divisions are just as deep, talented and potentially competitive as the 147-pound weight class. Welterweight is historically a glamor division and it’s got the most U.S. talent, so American media fixates on it, but the sport is currently loaded with quality weight classes.

Spence, number 1, has beaten Kell Brook (who is currently not in The Ring top ten) and has a fight lined up with Mikey Garcia. Lamont Peterson was The Ring’s No. 6-rated welterweight when Spence (No. 2 at the time) fought the veteran.

(Does Miller have more chance of an upset than Mikey does is an interesting argument.) Good question. I think more fans and media give Garcia a shot at the upset than Miller.

Crawford, the number 2, has just moved up but has only fought one top ten rated fighter at WW in Jeff Horn. Crawford is fighting Amir Khan next, but does Khan have more chance than Miller of pulling off the upset? Good question. I think more fans and media think Miller’s got a better shot at pulling off a monumental upset at Madison Square Garden than Khan.

Thurman, fair play has been out, but has Danny Garcia and Shawn Porter on his cv. Thurman also has Robert Guerrero (who was The Ring’s No. 8-rated welterweight when he faced the veteran) on his record, but that victory goes back to early 2015. Thurmy also had Diego Chaves on his ledger. (The rugged Argentine was unrated when they fought but was later ranked in the lower top 10. I don’t know if you count this 2013 victory.)

 

 

Email Fischer at [email protected]. Follow him on Twitter and IG at @dougiefischer.

SIGN UP TO GET RING NEWS ALERTS