Monday, April 23, 2018  |

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Dougie’s Friday mailbag (Joshua-Wilder posturing, next for GGG, Hurd and Marciano)

Could one of the biggest fights and events that can be made in boxing be getting closer to becoming a reality?




13
Apr

UPCMOING FIGHTS AND MYTHICAL MATCHUPS

Hey Doug, another great matchup just got booked between Joseph Diaz and Gary Russell, supporting the great light heavyweight fight between Badou Jack and Adonis Stevenson. I’m really excited for this card and am personally feeling Jo Jo and Adonis, providing age hasn’t caught up with the latter. I think that powerful left cross is going to peirce Jack’s gaurd and hurt him real bad. Jack’s turned into a very good fighter though so he shouldn’t be counted out. Who are you picking?

Also, do you think GGG is still going to end up fighting in May? If you could make sure he got to fight two of these 5 opponents, who would you choose: Saunders, Derevianchenko, Charlo, Ramirez, or Jacobs 2?

Lastly, the republished Best I’ve Faced article got me to go back and watch Hagler vs Duran again, a pretty underrated fight in my opinion. It was amazing how just as Marvin said in the article, Duran was able to time his jab and beat him to the punch with the straight right. Marvin made adjustments though and he clearly won the fight. However, the fact Duran fought so competitively with the middleweight legend over 15 rounds I think makes the fight one of his greatest performances, despite losing. I think Marvin really respects Duran for stepping up to face him before other stars of the era, and doing so at quite a size disadvantage, which was pretty stark in the ring.

Mythical Matchups:

Kid Chocolate vs Hands of Stone

De La Hoya vs Palomino

Tommy Hearns vs Roy Jones

Sweet Pea vs Homicide Hank

The Mighty Atom vs Chocolatito

Thanks. – Jack

I’ll go with Duran by close decision in a sensational contest, De La Hoya via close, maybe majority decision (if the fight is scheduled for 12 rounds; I favor Palomino by close decision if it’s a 15 rounder), Jones by mid-rounds stoppage (at 160, by late-rounds TKO at 168 pounds; Hearns by decision at 175 pounds), Armstrong by competitive-but-clear decision, and Wilde by late stoppage (especially if the fight is scheduled for more than 12 rounds).

Duran (left) challenged Hagler (right) for the middleweight championship in1983. Photo / THE RING

Duran was masterful against The Marvelous One. He was so great that he could put on master classes (that were also entertaining) during the 1980s when he was far past his prime, and some of his losses (to Hagler and Hagler’s half-brother Robbie Sims) during this overweight and inconsistent period of his career were just as compelling as his victories (vs. Pipino Cuevas, Davey Moore and Iran Barkley). I never tire of watching the middleweight title challenges to Hagler and Barkley. There’s so much craft on display in every round. It still amazes me that Duran faced a more-prime version of Hagler than his nemesis Sugar Ray Leonard and conqueror Tommy Hearns, and went 15 rounds with one of the greatest middleweights of all time.

Another great matchup just got booked between Joseph Diaz and Gary Russell, supporting the great light heavyweight fight between Badou Jack and Adonis Stevenson. That’s a terrific doubleheader. The great fans of Montreal deserve it. Showtime and all the promoters involved in bringing it together should take a bow. The wonderful thing about both matchups is that I really don’t have a strong favorite in either.

I’m really excited for this card and am personally feeling Jo Jo and Adonis, providing age hasn’t caught up with the latter. Stevenson looks well preserved to me, and it’s not like he’s been in any grueling fights in recent years, but perhaps his ridiculously light schedule will bite him in the ass against the hardnosed Jack, who’s never shied away from a stern challenge. Diaz’s main edge in his first title challenge is his activity. Had Russell fought more over the past three years I’d firmly favor him in this matchup, but he seems just fine with making once-a-year appearances, which makes me question his desire. I know Diaz is hungry. And he’s a battle-tested young gun, having been in with card-carrying tough guys like Rene Alvarado, Andrew Cancio and Horacio Garcia, as well as difficult styles (from Jayson Velez and Manuel Avila). However, he’s never faced a technical speed demon with Russell’s level of natural talent. The Californian has his work cut out for him.

I think that powerful left cross is going to pierce Jack’s guard and hurt him real bad. I can see that happening. Jack’s a badass but he’s not the defensive genius that his promoter is. And though technically sound, he’s very methodical, and those guys often have trouble with superior athletes who box and punch off the cuff like Stevenson.

Jack’s turned into a very good fighter though so he shouldn’t be counted out. Who are you picking? If I have to make a pick, I’m going to go with Jack. He’s not as talented as Stevenson, but he’s solid all around and he’s been operating at a world-class level in recent years, while “Superman” has just been milking his WBC title and Al Haymon affiliation.

Also, do you think GGG is still going to end up fighting in May? That’s the plan of Team GGG and Tom Loeffler, at least as of yesterday afternoon when they held a press luncheon in Los Angeles to announce that they had no announcement to make – yet. They made it clear that they want to bring the Big Drama Show to Cinco De Mayo. But they have to find the right dance partner (Vanes Martirosyan appears to be the latest “front-runner” but that could change) and try to make a deal with the IBF, which is pushing for the Sergiy Derevyanchenko mandatory. (Loeffler acknowledged that Dervyanchenko is a worthy challenger, but would he prefers that excellent matchup to be built up a little more and for both middleweights have full camps to prepare for what would in all likelihood be a brutal war of attrition.)

If you could make sure he got to fight two of these 5 opponents, who would you choose: Saunders, Derevianchenko, Charlo, Ramirez, or Jacobs 2? I would choose Saunders (because the English southpaw stylist could enable GGG to realize his dream of becoming the undisputed middleweight champ) and Derevyanchenko (because I think the Ukrainian presents the toughest physical matchup for Golovkin). I’d love to see the other fights, too. Charlo and Ramirez could make for big shows in Texas and I’m pretty sure they’d be competitive with GGG. And a Jacobs rematch is a natural for Madison Square Garden or Brooklyn’s Barclays Center.

 

JOSHUA-WILDER NEGOTIATIONS

Hi Doug,

I just wanted to pass my thoughts on the Joshua/Wilder negotiations. It seems there is a lot of posturing from both sides, each claiming not to have heard from the other and so on and so forth. Both questioning how much the other really wants the fight. Is it just me or should this be one of the easiest fights to make in boxing? Both fighters say they want the fight. Both are available for now or should get an exemption for a unification bout. And both promotional teams work with each other, even if relations have frosted somewhat over the last 6 months.

As I understand it, Matchroom and Joshua offered Wilder a £15 million flat fee to fight. Now lets look at the facts. One fighter (Wilder) reported highest purse is around £3mil tops…. The other (Joshua) operates around £20 mil. Wilder has no unifications, Joshua has one and a half (I’m not sure the Klitsckho fight counts as a full unification). Wilder fights in front of 10,000 people if I’m being generous and Joshua fights in front of 80,000. Also Wilder has one belt, Joshua has 3.

So forgive me but I don’t see what the big fuss is about. If I was Wilder id say thank you for the additional £12 million that I’m getting in addition to my usual £3mill and when I knock your boy Joshua out, ill become one of the best known stars in boxing, with huge PPV potential and crossover appeal and the lions share of the rematch should there be a clause and/or appetite for that fight.

Personally I think Wilder has the power to knock anyone out including Joshua, but I think its Joshua’s fight to lose. I think he has more overall tools and has more than one way of winning the fight….. I’m not sure Wilder does.

Then waiting in the wings you have a certain Dillian Whyte. WBC number 1 but not yet mandatory. I’m not sure Wilder pricing himself out of the fight with Joshua just to have to fight Whyte is the smartest move. Again I’m not saying Wilder wont beat Whyte, but I view the fight as 50/50 with Whyte having every chance of ripping the title from Wilder. Then Eddie Hearn simply makes Joshua v Whyte for all of the belts.

Maybe I’m over simplifying things, but then boxing often over complicates them.

On another note, have you ever considered doing a “from the vault” edition of the mailbag? I know as a boxing fan I love the nostalgic feeling of reading about boxing from times gone by. I don’t know if you keep old editions of the mailbag or if it would be too much hassle but it would be good to read back over readers thoughts and your replies on old boxing topics such as the fallout from epic fights, the lead up to big events and controversial moments like Margarito’s loaded gloves etc. Just a thought.

Anyway, stay well Doug. All the best. – Callum from Kent, UK

That’s not a bad idea, Callum. I’ve thought about doing that for some of my old Gym Notes columns (and even some of my old Southern Cali. Notebooks from the HouseofBoxing and MaxBoxing years), as I did with the Golovkin-Canelo sparring session last year, but I don’t know how popular such a “flashback feature” would be with the mailbag.

I think there’s literally hundreds of mailbags, dating back to 2009, in the publishing tool for the current RingTV.com site that I could repost without too much trouble. Questions I have for you is how far back should I go? Should I choose mailbags that have subject matter similar to what’s currently happening in boxing (such as big fights falling out and negotiations for dream heavyweight matchups)? Should I try to repost mailbags on the five-, 10- or 15-year anniversaries of the fighters and fights that are covered in those particular columns? Any feedback you (or others) can give me would be greatly appreciated.

I’m also thinking about doing this for certain features that appeared in the pages of THE RING and KO Magazine.

My thoughts on the Joshua/Wilder negotiations. It seems there is a lot of posturing from both sides, each claiming not to have heard from the other and so on and so forth. Yes indeed, which is to be expected. In fact, the prospect of a Joshua vs. Wilder showdown and the heated – and very public – negotiations that have only just begun is the cover story for the next issue of THE RING. With Canelo-Golovkin currently on the shelf for who knows how long, there was no doubt in our minds that the attention – and obsession – of the boxing world would turn to what should be an inevitable clash for the undisputed heavyweight championship.

Both questioning how much the other really wants the fight. That’s so damn silly. I think both heavyweights want the fight. This is just the business of boxing holding up the sport side of it.

Is it just me or should this be one of the easiest fights to make in boxing? If boxing was purely sport, it would happen this year without too much posturing, but boxing is more business than sport and when the undisputed championship is on the line in the Glamor Division it’s NEVER EASY. It wasn’t easy to get Michael Spinks (the lineal and RING champ) to face Mike Tyson (holder of the WBC/WBA/IBF titles) 30 years ago, and it wasn’t easy to get Evander Holyfield (WBA/IBF champ) to step in with Lennox Lewis (WBC beltholder) 19 years ago. There’s too much money on the line, too many big egos representing the fighters, as well as battling network interests, for it to be “easy.”  

As I understand it, Matchroom and Joshua offered Wilder a £15 million flat fee to fight. Now lets look at the facts. One fighter (Wilder) reported highest purse is around £3mil tops…. The other (Joshua) operates around £20 mil. That may be true, but there’s more potential money to be made with Joshua-Wilder than Joshua’s previous bouts (including the Klitschko showdown), and Team Wilder wants a piece of that action, not a flat fee.

Wilder has no unifications, Joshua has one and a half (I’m not sure the Klitsckho fight counts as a full unification). Wilder fights in front of 10,000 people if I’m being generous and Joshua fights in front of 80,000. Also Wilder has one belt, Joshua has 3. All of this is true, and given these facts, Team Wilder should recognize that Joshua is the “star” or “A-side” (God, how I hate that term) of this matchup and negotiate accordingly, but they’ve got their pride and their going to hold off for the best possible deal for their fighter (because, as you know, it’s just as dangerous for Wilder as it is for Joshua).

If I was Wilder I’d say thank you for the additional £12 million that I’m getting in addition to my usual £3mill and when I knock your boy Joshua out, I’ll become one of the best known stars in boxing, with huge PPV potential and crossover appeal and the lion’s share of the rematch should there be a clause and/or appetite for that fight. That’s what I would say, too. But guess what? You and I aren’t professional fighters. We don’t climb inside that ring. We don’t give and take punches for a living.

Then waiting in the wings you have a certain Dillian Whyte. And The Body Snatcher ain’t no joke.

WBC number 1 but not yet mandatory. I’m not sure Wilder pricing himself out of the fight with Joshua just to have to fight Whyte is the smartest move. I agree, but again, you and I are not fighters. You and I probably think more like a typical manager. The risk-versus-reward equation does not work out with Whyte. It does with Wilder. So, we’d gladly swerve Dillian to get a shot at A.J. and ultimate glory (and a s__tload of money). But we ain’t fighters. We certainly ain’t a bona-fide puncher like Wilder. Maybe to Deontay all these potential heavyweight rivals look the same – like dudes that he’s about to knock the f__k out.

 

LOVE ME SOME HURD

Hi Doug,

I pray you and your families are doing well. After the predictable glorified sparring sessions recently Joshua vs Parker, Spence vs Peterson, and Garcia vs Rios, it was nice to finally get a great fight where you didn’t know who was going to win. I love me some Hurd. I love seek and destroy fighters and he destroyed two of them that I hate and usually don’t watch, Trout and Lara. It was great to watch him kick their butts and do it in a much more impressive fashion then Canelo did.

I can’t wait for him and the Charlo twin. That is going to be World War 3. I’d much rather see that fight then Canelo vs GGG which I’m glad is not happening. The rematch that should be taking place is Jacobs’s vs GGG which was a much better fight.

I’ve been hearing people saying they weren’t impressed with Joshua. I don’t get why he should take the blame for Parker stinking it out. It takes two to tangle and Parker wanted no part of Joshua. I don’t care to watch Lara but I knew he had heart from watching the fight with Angulo. Thank god Fraud, Vladdy, Ward, Hopkins and Fury are gone and I pray they never return.

Guys like Hurd, Wilder, Joshua, Spence, Lomanchenko, Garcia and the Charlos are bringing some excitement back to the sport by boxing with a fighter’s mentality.

God bless and take care. – Blood and Guts from Phlly

The great thing about all of the fan-friendly boxers you listed is that their ages range from 27 to 32 (with Wilder being the oldest, but 32 is still prime years for a heavyweight), so we will likely enjoy watching them ply their brutal craft in their primes for the next three-to-four years. It’s a good time to be fan of fearless action fighters.

There was a lot of give and take in the Hurd-Lara fight. Photo by Stephanie Trapp-SHOWTIME

I love seek and destroy fighters and he destroyed two of them that I hate and usually don’t watch, Trout and Lara. I wouldn’t use the word “destroyed” to describe what he did to Lara. That was a hotly contested fight, and Lara held up physically until the final rounds, and despite suffering a busted eye and getting dropped in Round 12, the Cuban master finished on his feet. I’m not sure “destroyed” is the right word for the Trout fight either. Trout was eventually overwhelmed by Hurd, but the veteran put hands on the younger, fresher, stronger fighter over the first half of the fight.

It was great to watch him kick their butts and do it in a much more impressive fashion then Canelo did. I enjoyed both fights very much, more than I did with Canelo’s showdowns with both men. But keep in mind that Canelo faced the undefeated version of Trout, who was coming off the biggest win of his career (the decision over Miguel Cotto), and he took on a closer-to-his-prime version of Lara.  

I can’t wait for him and the Charlo twin. That is going to be World War 3. We’ll see. Hopefully we find out this year.

I’d much rather see that fight then Canelo vs GGG which I’m glad is not happening. Spoken like a true whacked-out hardcore head. I love it.

The rematch that should be taking place is Jacobs’s vs GGG which was a much better fight. I disagree. I thought Canelo-GGG was more entertaining.

I’ve been hearing people saying they weren’t impressed with Joshua. I don’t get why he should take the blame for Parker stinking it out. It takes two to tangle and Parker wanted no part of Joshua. It takes two NOT to tango. Parker was leery of Joshua and Joshua was glad about that.

I don’t care to watch Lara but I knew he had heart from watching the fight with Angulo. Thank god Fraud, Vladdy, Ward, Hopkins and Fury are gone and I pray they never return. Fury is set to return on June 9. Don’t be surprised if Mayweather and Ward come back this year.

 

FUN, BUT HURDLY GOOD

Hi!

So, Lara-Hurd puts on a fight with a bit more intensity and drama than average, and everyone goes off as if we’ve seen the second coming of some legendary mauler grinding down an exceptional boxer per se? Sure, Lara is a good boxer, and sure, Hurd gave all he had of what he has – aggression, strength, relentlessness and, yeah, an ability to make the fight his kind of fight.

Nothing, absolutely nothing, is to be taken away from him – nor from virtually any man with the balls to step into the ring and risk his teeth, nose, health or life. Boxing hurts, really hurts, and even at a low-grade amateur level, not to mention with elite bangers handing it out. So, this is not a knock at Hurd, but at the reaction to his fight with Lara.

Maybe I’m just a grumpy guy at 50 who’s been living, following and watching this sport for too long – since I first read about Ali-Foreman in ‘75 and started out myself – but, really, is this anything to get excited about? Is this what and where we have come to? In that case, the sport really is in a sorry state.

Here’s the substance. I saw a clumsy, strong guy with bad balance (I’m being nice here), punching with all arms and zero body and/or leg behind. Punching, by the way…he slaps, whips, hammers them in, and manages to every second or third punch get his feet in his own way and thus end up at the wrong distance and the wrong angle. He met a far better boxer, who would’ve won had he only had the punching power to earn him the respect of Hurd. Well, he didn’t, and Hurd essentially ate him up. As I said, all the respect to Hurd for that – the man did what he could, and did it good – but let’s not act as if this in any way was…uh, good. It wasn’t. Fun, perhaps.

It’s obvious Hurd lacks proper fundamentals, as well as Lara’s fundamentals as an amateur sometimes works against him. His reaction to Hurd slapping him with the inside of the gloves was a typical reaction from a guy who’s been trained in an excellent amateur program since childhood.

Anyways, Hurd is fun, and I’ll sure as hell keep watching. That being said, questions how he would fare against men like GGG is insane. For the sake of his brain, keep him as far away as possible. It would be like serving a dog to a tiger. That cheek-in-the-air-and-easy-to-hit style would make Golovkin salivate to the brink of drowning before punching his foe to pieces.

Sorry for the rant, just wanted to get it out of my system. On another note, I’ve been into Rocky Marciano of late, and thinking how he would fare against some late and more modern names, he came out as follows.

Marciano – Louis: Louis by clear UD, but not without getting badly bruised by the Blockbusters haymakers.

Marciano – Liston: Marciano by KO. Marciano wouldn’t be intimidated by Liston, and Liston – as Tyson – never responded well to fighters who not only didn’t freeze out of fear, but also stood their ground, spit as much as they ate, and just kept coming.

Marciano – Foreman: Foreman feasted on aggressive little guys, and Marciano would have been hammered in ways he never had been before.

Marciano – Tyson: Marciano by KO. After 3 rounds, the blitz of Tyson usually eased, he got less creative and technically sharp, and more sluggish and, eventually, outright tired. Marciano would have been around for more than 3 rounds, and hence a late and nasty KO.

Yeah, I know – Marciano “too small”, Marciano “too short”, Marciano met oldtimers over the hill, and so on. Nah. Both Layne and LaStarza where younger than him, and the difference between him and Charles were just 2 years, I think. Sure, Moore was older, but some seem to think Moore was always way over 40. Well, he wasn’t. He was a tremendous gift from the gods of boxing, and he was totally confident he would school the powerhouse – and, like everyone else, found out what it means trying to withstand an onslaught for 15 rounds (in the few cases they made it the distance) by one of the hardest punchers in history. Marciano could seem rude and crude, but most of all his boxing (technique, footwork, tactics) was all about functionality and pragmatism.

Your thoughts? And while thinking, I send my regards and wishes to you and all the readers all the best. Just gotta love this brutal, beautiful sport of ours, don’t we? – Johnny, Sweden

Yes indeed, Johnny. Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

I must point out to you, however, that almost everything you said about Hurd was written about Marciano (by overly critical sports scribes of his era) during the early stages of his career.

And you know what? They were RIGHT! Marciano was a clumsy clubber out of the amateur ranks, and thus was a long-term project for trainer Charley Goldman. The Rock didn’t fight a legit top-10 contender until he met Roland LaStarza in his 26th pro bout (and many observers thought he lost that 10 rounder). Before and after the first LaStarza fight, Marciano was taken the 10-round distance by gatekeeper Ted Lowry, who troubled the stalking puncher.

Marciano didn’t face his second ranked fighter (Rex Layne) until his 36th pro bout. He didn’t face the faded Joe Louis until his 38th fight.

Keep in mind that Hurd, who had a limited amateur career, has only fought 22 professional bouts. He’s got a right to develop and learn his craft at his own pace just like Marciano. (Had you been around to see Marciano’s 21st pro bout against Lowry, you might have merely considered him to be a “fun fighter” instead of the all-time great that he was destined to become. Food for thought, eh?)

By the way, I think prime Liston would have stopped prime Marciano on cuts.

Maybe I’m just a grumpy guy at 50 who’s been living, following and watching this sport for too long – Maybe? How about definitely! LOL.

But, really, is this anything to get excited about? Um, yeah, it is.

Is this what and where we have come to? Yes, obviously.

In that case, the sport really is in a sorry state. No, it isn’t. It’s just not as good as it was in previous eras/decades, but that doesn’t mean it totally sucks.

As I said, all the respect to Hurd for that – the man did what he could, and did it good – but let’s not act as if this in any way was…uh, good. It wasn’t. Fun, perhaps. Fun is good enough for me. I don’t think everybody that puts on a pair of gloves as a professional has to have elite-level boxing talent/skill or aspire to be in the pound-for-pound rankings of a bunch of nerd-fans.

Anyways, Hurd is fun, and I’ll sure as hell keep watching. You won’t be the only one, brotha!

That being said, questions how he would fare against men like GGG is insane. Who’s the goofball that’s suggesting that? Hurd’s got his work cut out for him with Jermell Charlo. That’s the only future matchup for him that anyone should be thinking bout.

For the sake of his brain, keep him as far away as possible. It would be like serving a dog to a tiger. I agree, at least for now, but a few more years and a dozen or so more fights under Hurd’s belt could change my opinion.

 

 

Email Fischer at [email protected]. Follow him on Twitter at @dougiefischer

 





  • David T

    “I can’t wait for him and the Charlo twin. That is going to be World War 3. I’d much rather see that fight then Canelo vs GGG which I’m glad is not happening. The rematch that should be taking place is Jacobs’s vs GGG which was a much better fight.

    I’ve been hearing people saying they weren’t impressed with Joshua. I don’t get why he should take the blame for Parker stinking it out. It takes two to tangle and Parker wanted no part of Joshua. ”

    Funny how people see things differently…I thought the GGG-Jacobs fight was boring.

    Also, you can’t just blame Parker for that. Joshua wasn’t exactly marching forward like Margarito was he?

    • Dug Fisher

      In the current political climate, let’s hope that is the closest we actually get to World War 3.

      Joshua did just fine from a technical point of view. It wasn’t an £18m performance, but he looked like a guy wanting to work on certain areas of his game. He certainly didn’t sell himself, although I’m not sure he really needs to at the moment.

      If I were Wilder, I’d take the offer. It is pretty accurate in terms of respective market value and the potential rewards are more than worth it, far outweighing any perceived insult at the ‘lowball’ price. All he has to do is knock AJ out and, just like that, he’s the biggest star in boxing with a licence to print money.

    • Left Hook2

      I agree about GGG-Jacobs. Jacobs was so busy retreating on that back foot that there was no ‘fight’, just a 12 round encounter. I wouldn’t give Jacobs a second chance to stink out the joint. He had a chance and blew it….similar to Lara vs Cheatnelo.

      • ceylon mooney

        good description. he woke up after the knockdown. that fight was close. had he not waited for the knockdown to wake him up theres a damn good chance heda won.

        • Left Hook2

          A ‘good’ fight and a ‘competitive’ fight are often two different things. It takes two to make a good scrap, but only one good negator to make it a dreadful bore or..meh..

          • ceylon mooney

            sure. wasnt fireworks. i didnt mind. i was on the edge of my seat for it anyway. a big part was curiosity–jacobs looked awful in the mora rematch, but i couldnt imagine him suckin so bad or bein as reckless as the first mora match. i was intensely curious, and they both seemed really tense, too.

          • Left Hook2

            Watching live there was some suspense due to the reputations of the fighters. However there is nothing that says ‘rewatchable’ in that bout. Vlad was like that as well..except he ended most of his with knockdowns. It was the dreadful holding to that point..

          • ceylon mooney

            i havent rewatched thats for sure

  • Dug Fisher

    In my opinion Duran, the greatest lightweight of all time, went 1,1 (conveniently discounting the forgettable rubber match) with the greatest welterweight ever recorded on film, challenged the greatest super welterweight of all time (in a style matchup that was every bit as horrible for him as Foreman was to Frazier), and pushed the greatest middleweight of all time all the way in a competitive 15 rounder.

    Multi weight world champions vary greatly in quality, and even Duran only succeeded above welter against the second tier champs of his day, but Hand’s of Stone’s competition was utterly extraordinary.

    Greatest fighter I’ve ever seen and, in the complete absence of Robinson 147lb fight footage, it’s not even that close.

    • disqus_EewaFe3EB6
      • Dug Fisher

        Ah yes, the Fusari footage, all 2 minutes of it. I saw that on VHS video some 30 years ago and, I’ll admit, I had forgotten that was indeed a welterweight Robinson. I believe there’s also some equally brief, really bad quality footage around of an even earlier 147lb bout with a guy called Tony Riccio. Before Robinson first became champ.

        The problem is though, and I’m not denying that Robinson probably was a greater 147lb fighter than Leonard, we are still only relying on anecdotes and age old press reports to come to that conclusion because the available footage is still virtually non-existent. Plenty of him at 160lb of course, full championships in their entirety and Robinson was wonderful. Far from invincible, but wonderful nonetheless.

        Benitez, Duran, Hearns, cold bloodied KO of Davey Green v 2 minutes of grainy footage against Charley Fusari. I know which impresses me more.

        • ceylon mooney

          true you dont get to see much, but you do get to see some shit. hes positively explosive here. imagine this guy in the modern era? that kind of power and experience at 130 and 135 (147 in his era), that kind of power, rhythm and ring savvy at 154. holy crap.

          • disqus_EewaFe3EB6

            sugar sweet bruh

          • Ten Count Toronto

            He wouldn’t necessarily be as explosive if he was getting down to 130 or 135. Terrance Crawford certainly wasn’t. Also if Robinson was young fighter in this century he would probably have bulked up his upper body to the point where he’s be walking around 12-15 lbs heavier than he used to and probably having to cut a lot of weight just to even make 147.

          • ceylon mooney

            he sure would. thats the difference between same day weigh ins and 30 hours before will all that come along with it. hes more mosley than crawford anyway.

        • disqus_EewaFe3EB6

          You’re not very popular are you?

        • Juan Manuel Valverde

          Yes, guys like Larry Merchant, who’ve seen it all can attest to that. Why wouldn’t you believe them? Is it not valid because there’s no video? There are plenty of experts that had seen Ray Robinson and saw Ray Leonard live. Just think of it this way, if you compare today’s guys vs boxers from the 80’s, it would be a very similar comparison if you would compare 80
          ‘s guys to guys from the mid 40’s to 50’s. So, I could easily see somebody making a fair assessment of this.

          • Dug Fisher

            Thing is though, and I greatly respect guys like Merchant, how many times have we seen fights and performances decades after an original viewing and changed our perceptions of them. I know I have. Distant memory alone can distort things a little.
            Like I said above, Robinson probably was the greatest of them all, but for me personally, I’d feel a lot more confident in making that assessment if there was extensive footage of him prior to the final Lamotta fight.

      • Ten Count Toronto

        What is the origin of this film?? At first glance the quality of the video is almost too good, it even crossed my mind to wonder if it was a partial re-enactment for the purpose of news reels and promotional kits.

        • disqus_EewaFe3EB6

          If it was ever to turn out that that was a re-enactment, I’ll turn promoter and sign the actor in a heartbeat.
          All jokes aside, I found out about this video of WW sugar (and a couple others) thanks to Breadman’s mailbox on boxingscene, he usually knows his stuff.

          • Ten Count Toronto

            I didn’t mean imply the fighters in the clip were immposters. I was speculating that the real Robinson and Fusari got together some days or weeks after the fight and boxed and a few exhibition rounds for the cameras in front of a private audience of insiders which included rough simulations of some of the fight’s sequences. I’ve heard of this being done occasionally during the News Reel era although I can’t recall the fighters involved.

            The film quality is not great by movie standards but seems unusually good for a live indoor sports event at the time . Who went through the trouble of getting a studio quality camera and proper lighting only to film a few excerpts of the action?

          • disqus_EewaFe3EB6

            I think it’s just a well restored film but i love the way you think. Blows seemed real tho

    • Ramreiz Manuel

      Dug you deserve the Nobel peace prize an Oscar a gold medal for what you just written best post of the year.

      • Dug Fisher

        Duran fan huh? Glad I could please.

      • Matt M

        Best post of the year?? Lol.
        Go get a room you two.

    • Juan Manuel Valverde

      Agree.

    • DRE

      Excellent post. Agreed with every word. And this line was interesting: “Multi weight champions vary greatly in quality.” So true. Especially in this era where only the most hopelessly devoted boxing geeks can actually name the 6 or more champions per division. As in the WBO champion. The IBO champion. The WBA champion in recess. Etc.
      And there’s the quality of some of today’s multi-division champions. You look at a character like Adrian Broner who right now passes off as a 4 division world champion. ( I barely kept a straight face writing that one.)
      By contrast Duran was a 3 division champ when he was challenging Marvin Hagler. Imagine if Duran retired after his crushing loss to Hearns. He would have left with one less title than Broner. A classic example on how deceiving numbers can be.
      But Duran persisted and finally won that 4th title by beating a really tough champion named Iran Barkley. As in the same Barkley who just KOed the very fighter who destroyed Duran himself previously. That was one of most incredible fights I’ve ever seen.
      Anyhow you look at that tremendous performance and the rest of Duran’s resume and you say to yourself “Wow now that’s what a multi-division champion is supposed to look like!”

      • Dug Fisher

        It wasn’t so long ago that I could name with pride all the 3 and 4 weight divisional champs. Now, I don’t have a clue, nor do I really care anymore. It’s a shame, because special things are still happening in boxing. I consider Pacquiao a legitimate 4 weight champ – fly, feather, super feather and welter – an incredible accomplishment, but even that’s lessened in a sense by the record books attaching a ridiculous 8 divisional titles to his name. I don’t want to have to ignore paper titles to gain a true meaning of a champions’ worth.

    • TMT NYC-DA REAL GHOSTBUSTERS

      How dare you? FLOYD is the greatest lightweight of all time any time, any era, any planet and any galaxy!

  • Tony Nightstick

    Not sure Duran beats Kid Chocolate, but “sensational contest” is right.

    Doug may well be on point on Marciano-Liston, but what an absolute war. Joe Louis said that Marciano was so strong you hurt yourself just by bumping into him. The Rock would have done a lot more than “bump” into The Big Bear.

    • Dug Fisher

      I thought Duran evolved during his lightweight run just about as much as any champion ever has. A few lightweight greats might have edged a decision over him in the first 2-3 years of his reign but, nearer the end, he was as close to the perfect fighting machine I’ve ever seen.

    • TMT NYC-DA REAL GHOSTBUSTERS

      Some Thai Wanktoporn already beat Römàn Gonzales TWICE! and you can’t be sure that a much bigger, heavier Roberto Duran can? And The Rock had already beaten The Big Show many times, if ya smellelelelelelelelel what The Rock is cookin’!

      • Bwana Dom

        Kid Chocolate, not Chocolatito. Some 80 years difference there…

  • Pit bull

    Great match ups by jack . The only problem I have with dougies predictions is Hearn/ Jones jr . Jones always had a harder time with kids who could box a bit. I see where Doug is coming from with hearns winning at 175. Both were aged by that point. But I’d still back hearns at 168 n 160 to beat jones jr : I don’t believe jones had the hits to ko tommy, Barkley got it ‘cause he was about to good to sleep n caught hearns out of the blue . Yes Barkley got a decion in the rematch, but I think for the first time in Tommy’s life he was beaten mentally IMO, you’re have to ask tommy if that’s true . As I said, Roy was most uncomfortable with decent boxers , none of roys opponents could box like Tommy did n add in tommys reach n right hand to keep roy honest, I’d take hearns at any weight. Roy never beat a kid in hearns class, bhop n toney are class acts, but both were ideal for Roy

    • Left Hook2

      RJJ could kayo Hearns at any weight. But what a fight it would be.

      • Pit bull

        And hearns could ko jones anytime any weight also. Tommy was the real hitter in this matchup. Heans had also seen the speed of leonard n out boxed leonard until a desperate ray went to finish it . Could Roy out box hearns? Not so sure. But this is what it’s all about isn’t it. Everyone has an opinion

        • Left Hook2

          Right you are. Hearns was one of the 4 kings of the 80’s for a reason.

          • Juan Manuel Valverde

            Agree. Roy for all the talent he had, didn’t have that great quality of opposition. BHop was very young and Toney was very fat. Not his fault, but difficult to give him full credit for those wins as if he fought them at their prime and best. I loved RJ when he was at his best, but once he became this safety first fighter that would only fight sure wins, he became not likable. He was also very arrogant and not easy to like outside the ring. A guy like Tommy could very well be better than him in many aspects, we won’t ever know though.

        • Andy T

          Good points I would favour RJJ but you make valid points and got me thinking you may have a point, maybe Hearns would outbox RJJ these are my 2 favourite fighters outside the heavies.

        • Juan Manuel Valverde

          Agree. I think RJ had a bad chin all along, he was just too good to get clipped. If he had faced a prime Tommy, anything could’ve happened.

      • wrecksracer

        If Hearns could have boxed for his whole career with the discipline he showed against Virgil Hill at 175, he might never have been beaten. The problem is, he liked to brawl. Emanuel Steward said that Hearns would have beaten Jones. Hmm. Not so sure. Then again, Roy didn’t have the sturdiest chin, either.

    • Orca

      Barkley beating a still pretty good Hearns in the rematch is one of those weird results. Maybe you;re right and Hearns was mentally shaky against Iran. It reminds me a bit of Mayorga getting Forrest in the rematch. The first fight with Hearns , well, it happens. The second fight, it’s like lightning didn’t necessarily strike twice but the air was still muggy from the first time. Or…..perhaps Iran just had his number.

      • Dug Fisher

        I never liked that whole ‘Barkley had Hearns’ number’ narrative. First fight, Tommy absolutely owned Barkley and just got catastrophically careless. It might have been the most desperate fight ending (for all intents and purposes) right hand I’ve ever seen.
        Second fight, I think it was a combination of things. The weight, I believe, favoured Barkley and, at that stage in Hearn’s career, he was too shop worn to excel against any world class fighter who wasn’t a technical boxer like Virgil Hill.
        Been meaning to rewatch the second fight for years though. Can remember it being close.

        • Orca

          Good points. Yeah, the first fight was close but can’t remember Hearns making a fuss about the decision. Yeah, you could be right, maybe Barkley was just a bad choice at that stage of his career. Crazy to think that Tommy (a welter weight 10 years before) had just beat the best light heavy in the world. What a fighter.

          • william ellis

            Dug and Orca: I agree with you both. Hearns was classy – he did not complain a lot about losses. The second fight with B. was close. Barkely was very good – and some think he deserved the decision against Duran. I wonder how he would have stood up against Leonard and Hagler. Odd, he never fought them.

        • DRE

          In the second Barkley-Hearns fight Hearns was all beaten up and swollen. But Barkley himself didn’t look any better. Looked as banged up as he did in the first fight.
          Anyhow you look at those two fights as well as the fight in which Ray Leonard flattened Hearns. I still remember Ray having his eye all busted up and unloading that last-ditch furious rally that won him the fight.
          And then there was all those bombs that Hagler had to walk and bleed through to chop Hearns down to size.
          The morale here? Even when Hearns did got owned he sure didn’t make it easy for the guy.

    • Breadking

      Gotta disagree on this one. Roy had dynamite in both fists, and is naturally the bigger guy. It would be an awkward match up, but I would take Roy at all weights. Roy was not aged for most of his tenure at 175 at all, that made up much of his prime. Hearns was not nearly the same fighter at 175 as he was at 147/160. P4P they match up closely, but in real life, I take Roy at all of those weights.

      • Pit bull

        I remember Roy getting wrecked at 175 on a few times. I remember Roy being completely embarrassed by a welsh/ Italian masterpiece at 175 also. Hearns boxed Vergil hills ears off also , that was a feat in its self . I spared hill when he was in Australia when he was being trained by the great John Lewis . All though i hadn’t fought in some time, hills jab/ right was as good as it gets. IMO a prime hill would have given Roy hell

        • Breadking

          cmon, clearly we are not talking a post-prime Roy here. Prime Hearns … and really any elite fighter… smash Roy to bits after the Tarver KO. He was a shell of himself after that. Roy was THE MAN at 175 (and actually in the entire sport of boxing) from 1996 to 2003. That’s a helluva long reign and many of those are considered his best years.
          PS: He would have chewed up Calzaghe at any point in those years at 175 (or 168 for that matter) in my opinion. An ancient Jones was competitive with Calzaghe through 8 rounds, and even while being competitive he was very visibly diminished compared to what he used to be (he was 39 years old for Christ sake). Calzaghe has plenty to be proud of, but there is very little glory in that win.

      • John Newman

        I think Hearns beats (an obviously young and still protected) Roy at 154, but otherwise I think you’re entirely right.

    • Good MM analysis, Pit Bull.

      • Pit bull

        Thanks dougie

  • Tony Nightstick

    By the way, lads, this is well worth 30 minutes or so of your time:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NcL1L1WHEp0&feature=youtu.be

  • learnmore

    I think GGG should just shelf fighting on May 5 & just go another day giving them more time to promote,he seem to be adamant he wants to fight on that day. So he needs an opponent Spike O Sullivan declines offer, reports are saying he changed his mind down to GGG team reducing the offer after HBO agreed to move from PPV to regular tv & Spike did not want to take short money.

    My view is if Spike declines, I cant see Andrade, Derevyanchenko taking short money either, they probably will want more than Spike was offer, then we get onto the outrage about GGG v Vanes. I have no problem with this fight being a stay busy fight, people saying he’s inactive, he’s an jr middleweight. I reckon an inactive Vanes is better than the active domestic level Spike O’Sullivan whose best win is beaten the shell of Antoine Douglas.

    He’s an jr middleweight is a worst argument than Vanes being inactive, an active Vanes is a top 10 jr middleweight, I dont see people having any problems with GGG v Andrade or GGG v Jermall, it must make a massive difference that both have had one official fight in the middleweight division vs one legged Heiland & prospect Fox. Its laughable.

    • John Newman

      Excellent points. I completely agree. Martirosyan is also a bigger draw at Stub Hub than any of the other options (including Derevyanchenko, who has not yet indicated he would step in on May 5).

      • Michael Montero

        The stub hub is selling out regardless of who ggg fights.

    • Left Hook2

      I think it would be appropriate for him to tie Hopkin’s record by defending against a junior middleweight. It would be right in line with Squirrel, Simon, Simon, Tito, Oscar, Jackson, Lipsey, Council…

      • Pietey Trenton

        Barley…that you?

        • Left Hook2

          Not Barley…although I am sure he would agree.

    • Orca

      It must be terrible going through a full camp and then not fighting. I’m not surprised he just wants to get in the ring with whoever. The man doesn’t have long left in the sport. Hearing him wanting to get back to fighting 3-4 times a year makes me a little sad as I think it may be too late for that.

      • Conrad

        I was glad he said he wanted to get back to fighting that regularly. We still need to see how he looks vs. a top guy to see if he has declined or there were other factors at play in his performances against Canelo and Jacobs.

    • D. Gambino

      I agree that Golovkin should shelve the May 5 date as well Learn. He should go after Saunders for unification in June. In my mind, that fight makes the most sense for Golovkin as time is not on his side.

      • ceylon mooney

        one month delay for unification is cool but unrealistic. id bet saunders would jerk off and stretch it out more.

        • John Newman

          It’s a mortal certainty that Saunders would jerk off.

      • learnmore

        Who would of thought a failed drug test by someone else would affect another fighter so much. GGG has IBF problems, I’m not too certain he will still have the title because Dibella is pushing for GGG to drop the belt if he dont fight Derevyanchenko.

        BJS is al over the place, he said that he promised Murray that he will fight him in June & another day he’s calling out GGG.

        • D. Gambino

          If I’m Derevyanchenko I wouldn’t be pushing for a fight with Golovkin on short notice. Unless he was already in camp, taking a fight on short notice against Golovkin ALMOST a guaranteed loss.

    • william ellis

      Martirosyn is very good – he was competitive in his three decision losses to top fighters. He had beaten good fighters. He is now a Jr, Middleweight, true enough, but he is an inch taller than Golovkin, so he might be at the point where he would go to Middleweight anyway.

    • ceylon mooney

      GB re-activated their contract with osullivan after doulas and canelled his jacobs fight, so i doubt spike is makin any decisions for himself. im somewhat surprised that GB didnt make this happen. i figured theyd wanta make some of the money back on this mess, and i have a hard time imaginin theyre powerless in the situation. im very curious about the real dynamics going on with the matchmakers here.

    • I don’t think it’s a good idea for a veteran fighter (who just turned 36) to discontinue a training camp three-fourths of the way through. He’s just hitting his peak right now, just began the sparring stage of the camp. Stopping and restarting for a June or July fight will mess him up physically and mentally. GGG and Abel want to stay the course for May 5 for a reason.

      • Ten Count Toronto

        Agreed! He has already reduced his preferred activity rate the last two years, it could only be bad for his rhythm to have a false start and then risk being on the shelf who knows for how long. Rescheduling for early June wouldn’t be too bad but the way it goes in boxing these days that 3 or 4 week delay could easily turn into 3 or 4 months.

  • learnmore

    All I waiting for is this amazing counter offer Mr Finkel is putting together, I’m sure its not going to be an offer for Joshua to travel to the USA because they would have to offer Joshua $20m+ , Can they put a deal like that together?

    • D. Gambino

      20M would’ve been a better “flat” over than 12.5M. So I suspect that both guys fighting in the summer is happening. Then maybe they fight in late 2018. I’ll take that Christmas Present.

      • learnmore

        Hearn using $40m has the conservative estimate to come up with a 30%+ offer of $12.5m, a $20m offer would be given Wilder 50% of the estimated revenue. That will never happen, I reckon if Wilder takes a flat fee, he probably could get push for $15m but they want a percentage hoping that the revenue will be higher than $40m.

        • D. Gambino

          40M is far to conservative. 60M would be a more conservative estimate in my eyes. Joshua/Wilder would get major media attention which translates into PPV buys.

          I can see that fight doing 60M with ease. Probably be closer to 80M.

  • Left Hook2

    Blood and Guts guy?? Nailed it! Johnny? Not so much. Hurd is a work in progress, but he shows so much poise in the ring (he never gets tired because he is so relaxed), he shows great variety on his punches– (Foreman said to just touch your opponent…get them used to it…then hammer them), and passion to fight. When these guys try to tie up? He throws them off of him. Homie don’t play that game. He is here to punch, not to hug. And for those guys thinking he is a ‘weight bully’ or needs to fight ‘someone his size’…he weighs in at the contracted weight. Get over it. He uses his advantages the way fighters with quicker feet, quicker hands, and greater amateur experience use theirs. So far he has proven his ‘limitations’ have not kept him from being better than his opponents. Can’t wait for he and Charlo to meet..but I hope they put it off one more fight so that Hurd can get an easier opponent to try to work on some things before he gets the Lion from Houston.

    • D. Gambino

      I starting to think that what we see in Hurd is what we’re going to get. There is nothing wrong with that at all for us fans. Hurd could get better but do you see that happening at all? Not me. Maybe he might employ a bit more head movement coming in but he’s never going to be a defensive specialist. It’s not built into his psyche. Hurd is our new Arturo Gatti and Mickey Ward all wrapped up into a big 154 lbs package.

      • Left Hook2

        That is a helluva package! I would like to see him use that reach a bit more, but I don’t think he is going to be able to use the jab exclusively. He popped Lara several times with it. It’s almost funny…he uses the power shots to set up the jab!
        He really is very, very poised.

        • D. Gambino

          It really makes the most sense when I watch Hurd fight.

          I agree with your point about the reach but he is what he is. The odd part about Hurd is that he does fight tall which is great but his footwork is bad so he doesn’t have the same “leverage” on the outside as he does on the inside.

          The one thing that bugs me about Hurd is all the arm punching he does. I feel he’d have more KO’s if he had better footwork. However, I like Hurd’s style now. No sense in changing it! I do feel bad for him when he retires – dude is going to have a bad slur.

          • Left Hook2

            I hope he gives a few good years and leaves us wanting more. As opposed to those who won’t go away…

      • ceylon mooney

        damn good call. i wouldnt go that far, but not a bad comparison.

        • D. Gambino

          Thanks Cey!

          I can’t think of any better comparison for Hurd. I actually put Hurd closer to Gatti in terms of the willingness to take punches to give punches than Ward. I feel Ward was more technically skilled than Hurd is currently.

          • ceylon mooney

            maybe, but gatti was a lot more technically skilled than ward.

            yea i dig the comparison.

            hurd is DAMN easy to like. his goin after lara sealed it for me. his performance in ring was damn good.

  • Frank-dogg

    It’ll be fun to read all the ass chewings Dougie made through out these years. Those were the cream of the crop. Thanks Doug, for the good times of laughter while getting elbowed on the ribs by the wife telling me to be quite, while reading the mailbag late at night. 😎👍

  • philoe bedoe

    Great mailbag again Doug.
    I also think a look back at vintage mailbags would be interesting.
    I stumbled across an old one on google, which was before I started reading the mailbag.
    It was you tipping Cleverly to beat Kovalev, I also tipped Nathan to win as well lol………….

    • David T

      I believe most people (bookies included) had Cleverly as the favourite that night. Certainly in the UK anyway.

      • ceylon mooney

        interesting. that kind of stuff id luv to see revisited.

      • philoe bedoe

        i think a lot of people and me included, thought Cleverly had mores strings to his bow.
        He would be able to box and move a bit better when he needed to, and Kovalev was powerful but basic…………..

    • Not one of my better predictions.

      • philoe bedoe

        Your not the only one………

  • John Newman

    If were rehashing old memories, I think one of the best ways to do so would be to bring back old mailbag editions that address issues or fighters that are relevant to the current mailbag.

    We could get various fan reactions to Jacobs stinking out the Garden and fighting an avoidant fight off his back foot after a knockdown.

    We could see the opinions offered after Russell Jr’s one loss, and after his various victories, and perhaps better understand if Diaz actually has a shot (provided the rust isn’t too thick).

    That’s just my two cents, but I often find myself looking back over what good boxing reporters have said regarding fighters I like in anticipation of their next career moves.

    • ceylon mooney

      thats a pretty cool idea, man.

    • JV316

      i enjoyed the jacobs ggg fight i thought danny did well i didn’t feel like he was “running”, do people mostly look at that like a lara against canelo performance?

      can you believe one of the judges had lomachenko vs russell a draw? there’s always one bad apple in the bunch….

      • John Newman

        I thought Jacobs boxed his best and had a fight plan that was as good as he could get for the possible upset. I think it was an excellent job of boxing, but it wasn’t compelling and I don’t think he won. I didn’t even find it particularly close, but that’s my preference for landing meaningful punches that appear to hurt the opponent. I readily admit there are shades of interpretation.

        Jacobs avoided the action, and tried to trade only on his terms. He wanted to be Leonard to Golovkin’s Hagler, but he doesn’t quite have the skills for that (and Hagler – Leonard is still a 50/50 fight for most judges, add the knockdown of Jacobs and. . . ).

        His plan meant he was backing up and eating jabs for almost the whole fight. He would rush in and throw pitty-pat punches to win rounds, but he threw few meaningful shots and was boxing for show and for points, not to win. His punches were quite clearly less effective, but often looked better.

        It put off a lot of fans because they came for a typical Golovkin fight. We can offer criticism of Golovkin for not doing more to press the action, but in his mind (and in his corner, and to all three judges) he was clearly outboxing Jacobs (albeit by a smaller margin on the scorecards).

        As for Russell Jr and Lomachenko, there’s a reason no one has heard of Lisa Giampa since that night. De La Hoya still hires her for fights occasionally, but nothing higher profile than Ryan Garcia. Prior to 2014 and the Russell fight, she had almost as many questionable cards as Adalaide Byrd. Awful judge.

        http://boxrec.com/media/index.php/Lisa_Giampa

        • JV316

          Lol lisa does look good though, i will give her that. she’s like the stacey dash of boxing judges. and that’s chuck giampa’s wife?? good for you chuck!

        • JV316

          good points, i agree with you on the jacobs strategy but i think i disagree with you on the effectiveness of danny’s punches. to me ggg was definitely feeling danny’s shots (who has power and def had the size advantage), that to me is a more realistic explanation for why ggg jabbed more instead of throwing his signature body shots and also why ggg did not do “more to press the action”….ggg coasting and not pressing the action like a bat out of hell just because he thinks he’s outboxing a guy (and as a result leaving it to the judges) isn’t really in his character….

          • John Newman

            Very good points. I think the truth is probably somewhere in the middle.

            I will say that anyone who believes that Jacobs punches were more effective (ie did more damage) can’t ignore the fact that Golovkin knocked him down, or the fact that it was Jacobs who repeatedly sought to tie up after taking shots from close range.

          • JV316

            no doubt. can’t deny ggg had the power advantage even with the size disadvantage. there’s TNT in ggg’s fists

        • Dug Fisher

          Excellent analysis of the GGG-Jacobs fight.

      • Lisa Giampa. Hottest judge in boxing by far but awful scorecards (often biased for Haymon clients).

        • JV316

          Lol agreed doug. i just called her the stacey dash of boxing, very attractive but perhaps incompetent

      • John Newman

        Here’s the mailbag following the Golovkin – Jacobs tilt:

        https://www.ringtv.com/490141-dougies-monday-mailbag-65/

        • JV316

          interesting, thanks. plenty of people on both sides of the argument there, similar to the press scoring for the fight according to boxrec:

          ESPN 115-112 Golovkin
          HBO 115-112 Golovkin
          The Ring Magazine 115-112 Golovkin
          The Guardian 115-112 Golovkin
          International Business Times 115-112 Golovkin
          LA Times 114-113 Golovkin
          Boxing Scene 114-113 Golovkin
          Associated Press 114-113 Golovkin
          Bad Left Hook 114-113 Golovkin
          CBS 114-114
          Telegraph 114-114
          Yahoo 114-113 Jacobs
          Box Nation 114-113 Jacobs
          USA Today 115-113 Jacobs
          Sporting News 115-112 Jacobs
          MMA Mania 115-112 Jacobs
          15Rounds.com 115-112 Jacobs

    • Thanks for the input, John. Much appreciated.

      • John Newman

        Speaking of memory lane, and relevant to some of the other discussion here:

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2VB5EuqC3GY

        This was one of a few times I’ve been vindicated by someone with inestimably more boxing knowledge and acumen.

        I watched the Lomachenko – Russell Jr fight with friends and was the only person in the group who had it 10-2 for Loma. The Associated Press scorecard helped me a little (my friends still mocked me), but it was your interview (posted that same day) that shut them up.

        It’s also remarkable how prescient you were with regards to eventually seeing Lomachenko take on Walters and Rigondeaux. Maybe there’s a career as a matchmaker for you if you get sick of responding to mailbag questions.

  • Orca

    Revisiting old mailbags for some big fights would be good but there are other things I’d like to see first. I love the Best I Faced kinda thing and would like something similar with writers, trainers and even referees. Your favourite round, fight, fighter, KO, boxing movie. What made you a fan of boxing? Who excites you on the scene at the moment? Most underrated/overrated? What mythical match up would you love to have seen? Your best and worst pick?

    I love all that stuff.

    • David T

      Great idea!

    • philoe bedoe

      Does Boxing News still do that on the last page of their magazine with the boxers.
      It’s been a while since I bought it…………..

      • Bwana Dom

        They still do, every week.

  • Conrad

    1. Badou Jack vs Adonis Stevenson is a great fight. If Jack wins he should be considered P4P top 10. He’s got a great resume at super middleweight and is just a methodical, patient technician who improves all the time

    2. Hope Jo Jo Diaz beats the inactive Russell, featherweight is a deep division but the top guys never seem to fight each other, with the exception of Frampton vs. Santa Cruz.

    3. Don’t see the problem with Martirosyan as an opponent. He’s a better and more proven commodity than O’Sullivan and he’s a big light middle.

  • Alligator

    Class! WBSS Final between Gassiev and usyk postponed and now take place in Russia.So now I can go to this fight and watch it live!

  • Roberto Carlos Guerra

    I really hope Joshua vs Wilder happens NOW. The idea of it happening “in the future” is repulsive (maybe). Both guys are at their peaks, and, most importantly, both guys are undefeated. I just saw a documentary (an old one on Youtube) about Lewis vs Tyson, how even though it brought in so much revenue, it happened well past its due date.
    I really hope that doesn’t happen with Joshua vs Wilder, or after one of them has been defeated. 0’s have a tendency to disappear.

  • Pit bull

    I see the great Marciano is mentioned again.this time compared to a 154 kid. I’m tired of modern kids being compared to the magnificent Marciano. There’s no comparison with theses 2000s kids to the older eras. These kids today couldn’t even finish a training camp with the likes of Marcianos era. For a start, where would these kids today buy their drugs?.. Marciano is an atg for a reason. To compare any modern fighter to Marciano or that era is a kick in the a•• into those past men . Hurd is a decent kid no dougjt for the modern era, but Marciano, hurd isn’t even close . I had to get that off my chest

    • wrecksracer

      Can any fighter today even go 15 hard rounds? I doubt it. Especially not with a same day weigh in.

      • Left Hook2

        Hurd, no doubt. Deravyanchenko. Gassiev. Estrada. They all appear to be poised and relaxed enough to go 15 hard rounds. Plenty who could last 15, but nobody would enjoy watching..

      • Dee Money

        Of course they could, if they had to, but they don’t so its not like they are training for it.

        There is nothing that has happened in our society over the past 50 years that has severely diminished the abilities of professional athletes.

        • wrecksracer

          There isn’t same day weigh in like there used to be. That is a massive change in boxing (and not one that I agree with). That and 12 round fights. Today’s boxers have it cushy compared to boxers of the 15 round era.

          • Dee Money

            Yeah, but to imply that they COULDN’T achieve that task is a mistake. If athletes 50 years ago could, then athletes now could as well. They would just train differently, they are capable. Its not as if training techniques have gotten worse.

            Unless you buy into the rose colored petals of the good ol’ days.

          • wrecksracer

            I certainly see what you are saying, however, fighters these days only fight twice a year. Part of the reason fighters of earlier eras could go 15 hard rounds is because they fought regularly out of necessity. Take a look at a guy like Canelo. He has all the money in the world to have the absolute best training available. He gasses every fight. He has to take rounds off. I would pick a guy like Jake LaMotta to beat the crap out of him. I think the business climate in boxing has led to a generation of soft boxers. Is it possible for them to train for 15 rounds? Yeah. They just don’t have the desire or work ethic.

  • Juan Manuel Valverde

    That’s why I rate Duran higher than Sugar Ray.

    Regarding the GGG situation for May 5th. If I was Tom Loefler I would choose an easy opponent. To me, having a million dollars in budget for both Gennady and his opponent and two weeks to promote makes it practically impossible to get a good fight going. Logistically it doesn’t make sense to fight anybody good. This should be non-title fight just to get us the fans something for cinco de mayo weekend. Anybody that complaints about that simply doesn’t understand the sport.

    Now, if I would have a choice, I would prefer Gennady taking a later date and fighting someone with a heart pulse. But considering they have that important date all to themselves, it would be stupid not to take advantage, the thing is that they can’t risk his future with such short notice. For as good as he is, anybody can give you a scare, specially at this point in his career, with such little time to prepare.

    Of course, the problem with Vanes is that he hasn’t fought in 2 years let alone he’s not a middleweight, seems like a very bad situation here… Hopefully nobody gets seriously hurt.

  • Chris Smith

    I dig Hurd.

    Has his limitations (has some underrated traits too), but puts forth such commitment and energy, never backs down from tough fights and is a humble and easy to root for guy. I can’t really ask for much more from a fighter.

  • TMT NYC-DA REAL GHOSTBUSTERS

    Montréal, homes! Will good monsieur Archambault show up to watch The Pimp Daddy vs. Badou Jacques?

  • HarvardBlue

    Roberto Duran- Carmen
    Basilio in a 15 round middleweight fight would be a good matchup for the old timers on this site.

  • TMT NYC-DA REAL GHOSTBUSTERS

    In Dougie’s Mailbag mythical match-up, somebody wanted Chocolatito to fight Roberto Duran? SMH. Unbelievable.

    • James Otis

      Kid Chocolate.

    • Bwana Dom

      I think the gentleman was a little confused….

  • Chris Stans

    I don’t know how I feel about that Hurd criticism. His defense is raw but u can’t deny that he gets results. He makes weight, passes drug tests, and is eager to unify.

  • ozzy

    An interesting interview of Eddie Hearn on IFL – imo he makes some convincing points about the Wilder offer. By the way it’s a long interview (just over an hr) and he says a lot about Wilder near the start but also near the end (about the 57 min mark) where he says that he expects Wilder’s next fight to be Breazeale NOT Joshua and revealed that AJ had fought the Breazeale fight with glandular fever – I was at that fight and thought something wasn’t right with AJ. Anyway here’s the link…
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y8OZeTxJQ7k&feature=youtu.be

  • James Otis

    Wilder and Joshua must fight now or they may see those millions fly out the window. Their days of fighting tomato cans is over (hopefully). The longer they put off fighting each other raises the odds that either or both may get stopped by any legit top HW. Neither has an iron jaw.

  • Ten Count Toronto

    Man, that Johnny form Sweden sure missed a pretty good fight last week while covered under his blanket of crankiness. Would have been a real downer watching Holyfield-Bowe with this guy!

    Some of that unorthodox footwork by Hurd enables him to keep busy and throw punches even when he ends up in the wrong stance now & then, and by mixing in some “whipping” and “slapping” he is able to keep scoring and keep touching & tapping a fighter others have found hard to hit instead of losing precious fractions of a second looking for textbook leverage and power on every shot. People with limited athletic ability have to make that sacrifice sometimes.

    And after all that professorial sticklerism, to finish by putting on a pedestal Rocky Marciano, who;s punches were often as wide as the orbit of a Ferris Wheel …