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Dougie’s Friday mailbag

Fighters Network
04
Mar
Some fans (mainly the neurotic ones) are upset that Canelo Alvarez's RING and WBC middleweight titles are on the line in his 155-pound catchweight showdown against Amir Khan. Photo / Rich Kane - Hoganphotos/Golden Boy Promotions

Some fans (mainly the neurotic ones) are upset that Canelo Alvarez’s RING and WBC middleweight titles are on the line in his 155-pound catch-weight showdown against Amir Khan. Photo / Rich Kane – Hoganphotos/Golden Boy Promotions

ORTIZ-THOMPSON & WBA

Hey Doug,

When I read the WBA was going to try and clean up boxing, I thought “yeah right. When does the interim in emeritus title come out?” But they are actually doing a good job trying to consolidate belts. Which leads me to this week’s Luis Ortiz-Tony Thompson fight.

Good for the WBA for not sanctioning this as a “championship” fight, and good for Tony to step up to the plate. I really don’t care who Ortiz fights, I think he is the real deal and am pumped to see him back in action. Based on his showing against Bryant Jennings (with the flu no less), I think Ortiz will get the Tiger out by Round 6. How do you see this one coming out?



Thanks man. – Robert from Ashton, MD

I think Thompson, who at one time was the most reliable gatekeeper in the heavyweight division, will last longer than six rounds, but I expect “The Real King Kong” (good grief, that’s a long and corny nickname) to wear the 44-year-old southpaw down to a late stoppage.

I’m also looking forward to watching the fight (and doing the international call from ringside with my buddy Beto Duran). I’m glad Golden Boy Promotions is keeping Ortiz busy and in with a higher class of opponent than we saw him in with prior to the Jennings fight.

It doesn’t matter to me at all if the WBA’s interim title is on the line or not. I’m glad the sanctioning organization is talking about a tournament to crown one champ at heavyweight, and it’s good to see that they are putting pressure on Carl Frampton (who won their belt with his split nod over Scott Quigg) to face Guillermo Rigondeaux.

However, I would like to point out that Thompson, who isn’t rated by THE RING or the WBA, is still more worthy than that two fighters Ortiz faced in previous interim title bouts – Matias Vidondo and Lateef Kayode. Yeah, the veteran from Washington, D.C. is 3-3 in his last six bouts, but he’s been in with quality opposition and he’s scored victories over 2008 Olympic bronze medalist/hot prospect David Price and 2004 Olympic gold medalist/world amateur champ Odlanier Solis (twice each) during that span.

 

A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS

Hey Doug! What’s up?! Hope all is well!

You think there will ever be or have you started to see any indications that boxing will be regulated better in order to diminish some of the BS that goes on?

Do you think they should go back to same day weigh-ins? The rehydration that goes on at times is crazy.

It seems like the ranking system isn’t used to make many fights. Is this something that should be changed?

What fights would you like to see before the fighters start to diminish?

One last question… How many belts is too many for each division? Would this help in the “ducking” many of us hardcore fans complain about at times?

Mythical Matchup: Terence Crawford vs Ike Quartey

Take care….Peace. – D

Will boxing ever be “better regulated”? I think so, to an extent. I don’t see the federal government getting involved and forcing a national commission to oversee the sport in the U.S., but I think the current “Powers That Be” in boxing will begin to do more sensible business with each other and with respect to the fans once they become financially desperate enough to put away their personal beefs. You won’t see them holding hands and singing “We are the World” this year, or maybe even in 2017, but I think better days are ahead of us.

I also think some recent tragedies, such as what happened to Magomed Abdusalamov in 2013 and his family’s subsequent lawsuit against the State of New York and the NYSAC, has caused state commissions to be more vigilant about fighter safety.

Do you think they should go back to same day weigh-ins? The rehydration that goes on at times is crazy. It is crazy (and unhealthy), and yes, I do think boxing should go back to same-day weigh-ins.

It seems like the ranking system isn’t used to make many fights. Is this something that should be changed? No, not really, because I think more top-10 contenders fight each other on a regular basis than many fans are willing to acknowledge. I think the problem is that there are so many “world” titles and weight classes that the quality of some “champions” and top-10 contenders has been drastically lowered over the past 30 years.

What fights would you like to see before the fighters start to diminish? The Roman Gonzalez-Juan Estrada rematch (and I think we’ll get that fight this year), Kell Brook vs. any top five welterweight (including Tim Bradley and Keith Thurman), GGG vs. Canelo and Daniel Jacobs (I think we’ll see one of these matchups in the next 12 months) and Tyson Fury vs. Deontay Wilder (even if they both lose their titles).

How many belts is too many for each division? What’s that old saying, “Two’s company, three’s a crowd”?

Would this help in the “ducking” many of us hardcore fans complain about at times? Would a reduction in major world titles cut down on top fighters avoiding each other? Perhaps. It would probably encourage up-and-comers to take more risks against fellow standouts on their way to world title bouts, but it wouldn’t necessarily encourage established stars to take on dangerous or difficult fights.

Your mythical matchup:

Terence Crawford vs Ike Quartey – Quartey by close decision (I might be inclined to change my opinion if Bud goes on to establish himself at 147 pounds)

 

FRAMPTON IS BRITISH

Hi Doug,

A quick factoid for some of the less well-informed US commentators (not you of course) – Frampton is British, he is NOT Irish. – Alfred

Duly noted.

For the record all you boxing fans and commentators: Northern Ireland is part of the United Kingdom.

(However, maybe some fans from Frampton’s hometown of Belfast can tell us if folks from Northern Ireland identify their nationality as “British,” and the their culture as “Irish.”)

 

THE BUSINESS SIDE OF CANELO-KHAN

Hey Dougie:

Longtime reader, first-time writer to the mailbag. I think you’ve written everything there is to write about the considerable up- and downsides of the fight between Amir Khan and Canelo Alvarez, but something that hasn’t gotten much press, as far as I can tell, is on the business end of it.

Khan is still advised/managed/promoted, however unofficially, by Al Haymon, while Canelo is a Golden Boy fighter. Is this an anomaly, the two rival companies working together because Khan insisted on the biggest-money fight available to him, or do you get the sense that a genuine glasnost is taking place? – Chris, Illinois

I don’t think the Cold War between Golden Boy and Haymon is over yet. After all, GBP’s $300 million antitrust lawsuit against Haymon is still in play. But who knows? Maybe Canelo-Khan can help lead to some earnest cooperation between the two power houses. That would be nice, wouldn’t it?

However, for the time being they are still very much separate (if not adversaries). Golden Boy’s founder and president Oscar De La Hoya was very clear in stating that Canelo-Khan is “exclusively presented” by his company during every stop of this past week’s international press tour for the May 7 HBO PPV event.

Khan says he sought out Al Haymon’s advice and consent prior to taking the fight, but Golden Boy did not negotiate the terms of the deal with the PBC’s creator, they dealt directly with Khan’s manager (his father Shah) and attorney. (By the way, I got to spend some time with Shah Khan in Bolton, England and London this past weekend and he is without a doubt a lovely human being.)

 

THE RING MIDDLEWEIGHT TITLE

The Ring should not put the magazine’s title on the line in the Canelo-Khan fight on the grounds that 155 is not middleweight and the opponent is not a middleweight either. Instead if Canelo wins he keeps the title, and if he loses it is vacated instead. Thoughts?

I ask because this should be a rule somehow. Imagine how ridiculous it would be if every champion kept making up their own weight limits. – Harrison

It would indeed suck if every champ made up his own weight limit, but most major beltholders lack the leverage to do that (unlike Mayweather, Pacquiao, Cotto and Alvarez) and most have no intention or need to do that.

Regarding Canelo-Khan, you’re wrong. It is a middleweight fight. Middleweight is any weight above 154 pounds and under 160. Some fans view a division’s limit as its “true weight,” but this is a mistake.

One of my favorite fighters of the 1990s, Terry Norris, engaged in 24 junior middleweight title bouts during his hall-of-fame career. The division limit for junior middleweight (sometimes called super welterweight or light middleweight) is 154 pounds, but “Terrible Terry” often weighed between 151-152 for his title bouts (especially in the early ’90s).

Norris’ WBC super welterweight belt was also on the line for his 149-pound catchweight bout with Meldrick Taylor. And why not? Both men were over 147 pounds, the division limit for welterweight, and under 154 pounds, the division limit for junior middleweight.

In fact, I think one (or both) fighters can come in at a lighter weight class for a title bout as long as both are allowed to weigh-in within the division limits of the belt that is on the line. Off the top of my head, this was done with Miguel Cotto’s last two middleweight title bouts (he weighed under 154 for Canelo and Daniel Geale), Manny Pacquiao’s WBC junior middleweight title victory over Antonio Margarito (the Filipino dynamo weighed under 147 pounds), and the classic 1940 middleweight showdown between recognized titleholder Ceferino Garcia (who weighed in at 153¾) and the great Henry Armstrong (who weighed just above junior welterweight at 142).

 

CATCHWEIGHTS & CANELO

Hi Doug,

I wanted to get your thoughts on catchweights and Canelo Alvarez. I’ll start off by saying that I have no problem with catchweights and I like the Khan v Canelo match up. I’ll admit my initial reaction to the fight being announced was poor, but after a while I grew to accept it and further on I’m now excited about the bout. I think Khan could be at home fighting at 155, he has the frame, and his speed could really trouble Canelo.

Regarding catchweights, like I said, I have no problem with them. If two fighters are both comfortable with the weight agreed then fine by me! If it means we get to see great fighters from different weight classes go toe to toe, then even better! I’m all for it. When I’ve spoken to different fans on various boxing sites, they are very critical of the ‘Catchweight King’ Canelo and the decision to choose Khan. The usual comments slam Canelo and GBP for picking a guy who has never fought higher than 147. My thoughts are 1) Nobody forced Khan to take the fight, he obviously believes he can win. 2) you don’t have to buy the fight.

What I do have a problem with is when titles come into the mix. This should not be for the WBC middleweight title, and not because it’s Khan, a welterweight, but because it’s not being fought at a maximum of 160 lbs. Any challenger to a middleweight title should have the right to weigh in at 160lbs. For me, once a champion enforces a catchweight, then it should be a non-title fight. If Canelo continues to campaign at 155lbs, he should be stripped as a result of not defending. Does this sound reasonable or am I completely missing something?

I was prompted to write in after Canelo’s “I’m not a middleweight” comment. After reading him go on about being able to make 154 still and not being a middleweight, I was thinking – “Dude, crap or get off the pot!” Basically, fight at middleweight or vacate! Fans want to see good fights and they want to know who the best is, otherwise what’s the point of rankings and belts! So when we see Canelo as Ring magazine champ it leaves a sour taste. Surely by his own admission that’s enough to strip him right? You heard the man, he’s not a middleweight! Haha! What are your general thoughts on the whole middleweight/Canelo mess?

I’ll finish by going off on a complete tangent – how come Tim Bradley is ranked at 10 p4p but only 4th at welterweight, behind Brook and Khan who aren’t ranked p4p? Thanks for reading Dougie, the mailbag is superb, keep ’em coming! – Josh, Manchester, UK

Thanks for the kind words and for sharing your thoughts and questions, Josh.

Apart from lobbying for Roman Gonzalez to be included in THE RING’s mythical rankings and eventually ascend to the No. 1 spot, I’ve generally stayed away from weighing in on who belongs in the pound-for-pound top 10 and where; but I imagine the magazine’s Editorial Board and Ratings Panel considered Bradley’s impressive body of work (including his accomplishments at 140 pounds).

Regarding the “whole middleweight/Canelo mess,” I don’t really understand why fans would get so upset that Alvarez still considers himself a junior middleweight. Why wouldn’t he? He’s 25. He probably CAN make 154 pounds. He hasn’t weighed more than one pound over the junior middleweight limit since he lost his RING, WBA and WBC titles to Floyd Mayweather Jr. in 2013. Personally, I think he’s a middleweight at this stage of his career. Just because he can make 155 pounds doesn’t mean that he should, in my humble opinion. But if he wants to do it, and he feels comfortable/healthy doing so, I have no problem with him doing so as long as his opponent doesn’t mind.

Why should Alvarez vacate the middleweight titles that he won against Miguel Cotto a mere three months ago? Two things to keep in mind:

1.)Any weight over 154 pounds and under 160 is middleweight.

2.)If he didn’t come down to 155 pounds the fights with Cotto and Khan would NOT have been made. It was a stipulation of Cotto and Khan, not Canelo.

I think Khan could be at home fighting at 155, he has the frame, and his speed could really trouble Canelo. I agree. Being around Khan for a few days during the press tour makes me think the former 140-pound beltholder has grown into a natural junior middleweight. David Haye told me that Khan walks around at 165, 166 (“without any belly fat”) and Khan admitted to being just above 160 right now (and this is after four weeks of training). He isn’t building up to 155, he just doesn’t have to boil down all the way to 147.

When I’ve spoken to different fans on various boxing sites, they are very critical of the ‘Catchweight King’ Canelo and the decision to choose Khan. OK. I can understand criticism on accepting Khan as an opponent (although I have a hard time believing any of these critics would have been gung-ho about Canelo fighting Gabe Rosado, Liam Smith or Willie Monroe Jr.). But I don’t understand why he would be branded “the Catchweight King”? He came in under the division limit for his last two world title fights at the behest of his opponents – Cotto and Mayweather. Between those title bouts he’s fought at 155 and 154.5, but there was no title on the line, so why should he weigh-in at (or below) 154? Who does that?

The usual comments slam Canelo and GBP for picking a guy who has never fought higher than 147. My thoughts are 1) Nobody forced Khan to take the fight, he obviously believes he can win. Fact.

2) you don’t have to buy the fight. Fact.

Any challenger to a middleweight title should have the right to weigh in at 160lbs. Agreed, but you are aware that Khan did not want to do that, right?

For me, once a champion enforces a catchweight, then it should be a non-title fight. If Canelo continues to campaign at 155lbs, he should be stripped as a result of not defending. Does this sound reasonable or am I completely missing something? It’s only reasonable if Canelo’s challengers do not wish to weigh-in under the division limit. We don’t have that situation with Khan. We might have that situation with Gennady Golovkin, but there’s no sense in fretting about that until after May 7.

 

RANDOM THOUGHTS

What’s up. Watched the fights this past weekend. Terence Crawford was impressive as usual. IMO he would run roughshed over Adrian Broner. Crawford needs to fight Victor Postol (aka the henchmen from a 80’s Steven Segal movie). That’s the only guy I can think of at 140 that could possibly beat Crawford. Still gotta favor Bud though.

Brings me to my next point. I respect every fighter for what they do and put themselves through. I try to be as un-biased as possible but at the same time I am a paying customer who has HBO and Showtime and orders the PPV’s. Boxers put in the hard work and risk their life but some of these guys need to start fighting better opponents and stop ducking certain ones.

Leo Santa Cruz, Danny Garcia, Adonis Stevenson are some of those fighters.

I was impressed by Carl Frampton on Saturday. Thought he clearly won. But if he ducks Rigo shame on him. I understand the business side and Rigo’s fight on the Cotto-Canelo PPV caused everyone to take a bathroom and smoke break outside at my house but c’mon. Rigo is the best at 122 and possibly 126 (if not Loma). Fight the best. I believe Rigo would beat Frampton. Also IMO Rigo would probably mess up Santa Cruz too. If Kiko landed that many punches imagine what Rigo will do. I do find Rigo boring often but I do respect his skills and his belief in himself. I just want to see the poor guy fight someone elite again.

Also I have a bad feeling Canelo and GGG doesn’t happen in 2016.

Sorry about the rant and probable spelling and grammar errors on break at work and on my phone.

Morales vs Hamed

Calderon vs Roman Gonzalez @ 108

Thanks. – Ryan, NY

Don’t worry about spelling and grammar errors, Ryan, I’m just flattered that you would use your break at work to pen an email for my mailbag column. (I do hope that you got back to work once your break was over.)

I was also impressed with Crawford and Frampton. I would have been more impressed with Frampton had he taken more chances in the first six rounds.

IMO (Crawford) would run roughshed over Adrian Broner. I agree.

Crawford needs to fight Viktor Postol. That’s the only guy I can think of at 140 that could possibly beat Crawford. Still gotta favor Bud though. I view that as an even fight. Crawford is a beast but he’s not hard to find (at least in the early rounds of his fights) and he doesn’t have the fastest hands or feet in the biz. Postol’s height, reach and constant lateral movement (plus his clinching tactics) could give Bud fits.

Boxers put in the hard work and risk their life but some of these guys need to start fighting better opponents and stop ducking certain ones. Agreed.

Leo Santa Cruz, Danny Garcia, Adonis Stevenson are some of those fighters. Hmmm who do these guys have in common?

(If Frampton) ducks Rigo shame on him. I won’t shame him too much. After witnessing Rigo’s last “fight” and the first half of Frampton-Quigg live, I can’t imagine what Rigo-Frampy would look like. (It would probably resemble some weird interpretive “combat-style” dance from an ’80s music video. Maybe the referee would wear the same jacket Michael Jackson had on for the “Beat It” video.)

Rigo is the best at 122 and possibly 126 (if not Loma). The Cuban counterpuncher is arguably the best at 122 (RING ranks him No. 1); but not at featherweight. That’s speculation that will probably never be proven because he refuses to go up (or down) in weight.

Fight the best. Indeed. And this goes for Guillermo Rigondeaux, too. Do you really think Sod Kokietgym, Hisashi Amagasa, Drian Francisco and ‘Jazza’ Dickens were “the best” available opponents for Rigo?

I believe Rigo would beat Frampton. Probably.

Also IMO Rigo would probably mess up Santa Cruz too. Probably. I’d rather see Santa Cruz vs. the Cuban than Frampy-Rigondeaux. We’ll probably get Santa Cruz-Frampton. Poor Rigo.

Your mythical matchups:

Morales vs Hamed – El Terrible by close decision in a wild bout features several knockdowns and wobbly moments suffered by both featherweights

Calderon vs Roman Gonzalez @ 108 – Calderon by razor thin (and unpopular) majority or split decision

 

Email Fischer at [email protected]. Follow him on Twitter at @dougiefischer

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