Dougie’s Monday mailbag

Feb

Floyd Mayweather Manny Pacquiao fight shopped Lbello Rchrishyde small

END OF #THENEVERENDINGSTORY

Hi Dougie,
First off, like most boxing fans, I am happy that Floyd Mayweather Jr. is finally fighting Manny Pacquiao. No matter how we got here, May 2, 2015 will be atop the most anticipated fight nights in my lifetime (Holyfield-Tyson II, Lewis-Tyson being the others).

I’d just like to see it placed in perspective. The next few months will be insufferable with people like Skip Bayless pretending to be fight experts. Friends of mine who claim to be boxing fans but don’t know more than five active fighters will give their predictions with absolute certainty.

Nevertheless, a couple of thoughts:
1) People are saying this is the biggest fight in history. Financially, that is true. But weren’t Ali-Frazier, Ali-Foreman, Leonard-Hagler, and even just recently De La Hoya-Mayweather perhaps even bigger? I think it’s hyperbole, and probably wrong, to make this claim.

2) For the next few months, we’ll hear how the two sides came together to give the fans what they wanted. First off, we’ve wanted the fight since 2009 and neither side came together for the fans. Forgive me for being cynical about doing it for the fans, or the good of the sport, when each will make $100 million (give or take a few millions). As is usually the case, neither side had particularly attractive options and came to a prudent business decision.

3) I actually think this will be a good fight. I could see Mayweather taking an 8-4 type decision, but I’m picking Pacquiao in a mild upset. I’ve seen Mayweather decline more in his past few fights, while Pacquiao is on a bit of a resurgence and his win and “loss” against Bradley are better than anything on Mayweather’s recent resume.

And I’ll leave with a question. Do you think they’ll spend on a solid undercard? Reportedly Mayweather and Bob Arum will have one fight apiece. Vasyl Lomachenko could be on there, but would it be against a legitimate opponent? And I hope Mayweather doesn’t stick us with J’Leon Love or Mickey Bey. Could we see him put Mikey Garcia in against a no-hoper? I suspect the matchups will be around the Mia St John / Butterbean caliber. – Taylor

Yes, but without the color and flair that the Queen and King of the Four Rounders gave us time and time again on those De La Hoya pay-per-view extravaganzas.

I don’t think they’ll spend much on the Mayweather-Pacquiao PPV undercard because A) the money it took to make the main event exceeds the gross national product of some third-world countries, and B) they don’t have to. Only hardest of hardcore fans give a s__t about the undercard bouts. Everyone else will be in a frenzied tizzy over the main event. So I’m expecting Mickey Bey-Miguel Vazquez II and Jessie Vargas-Khabib Allakhverdiev II.

My thoughts on your thoughts:

1) In terms of money paid out and revenue generated Mayweather-Pacquiao will be a record-breaker, there’s little doubt about that, but that doesn’t mean it’s the “biggest” fight in history. How much it transcends the worlds of boxing and sports, and seeps into the mainstream media and the lives of everyday people over the next nine weeks will let us know how “big” this matchup truly is. It’s a given that it will be pushed hard on CBS, Showtime and HBO. How much will we see and hear about it on other networks? It’s a given that all boxing websites (and the boxing pages of ESPN.com, Yahoo! Sports, etc.) will cover the fight and its buildup, but what about general news and entertainment media? The mega-fights of the past did more than grab the cover of SI; they made the cover of Time magazine and were talked about on the prime-time national newscasts of all the major networks.

I think Mayweather-Pacquiao is the biggest fight in terms of crossover media/public attention since Lennox Lewis-Mike Tyson (2002) and the most significant boxing matchup since Sugar Ray Leonard-Thomas Hearns I (1981). And that’s saying something.

2) I agree with you 100 percent. This fight was not made for the fans. This fight was forced on boxing’s two biggest stars because their networks were no longer making a profit from the pay-per-view events of each fighter. There were no more viable/marketable opponents for Mayweather or Pacquiao. There was no crossover appeal to either fighter facing anyone else but each other.

3) I agree. I think Mayweather should be a slight favorite but Pacquiao is a very “live dog.” I see a competitive, compelling distance fight.

THE ANNOUNCEMENT

Alright Dougie,

Now that THE fight has been made, I’ve got a feeling you may have to start a new Mailbag, The MayPac Mailbag with the overwhelming amount of emails you’ll receive about May 2nd.

I know the fight’s only just been announced, but I wanted to get your thoughts on what fights we might expect on the undercard? And if you could pick any 2 fights to go on the undercard to support such a massive event which 2 would you pick? I’d like to see some of the Flyweight and Junior Bantamweight guys get some exposure as they can make for some really good scraps and Flyweight is a really exciting division at the moment. I know this won’t happen but hey, we can all dream.

Lastly, what belt do you think the WBC will give out for this one? Platinum, with moon rock and built in first aid kit with Swiss Army knife and flashing turn signals? Keep up the good work. #EndToTheNeverEndingStory. – Greg, Nottingham

I can see the WBC doing just that (and charging an exorbitant sanctioning fee along with it).

I don’t expect high-quality bouts on the Mayweather-Pacquiao undercard, but if I could pick any two fights to go on it I’d go with the Roman Gonzalez-Francisco Estrada rematch and Vasyl Lomachenko-Nicholas Walters. I know both fights will be totally ignored by the masses (just as the gems on some of Mike Tyson’s PPV undercards – such as Simon Brown-Maurice Blocker and Azumah Nelson-Jeff Fenech I – were in the early 1990s), but that’s OK. Boxing fanatics like us can have a big ole nerdgasm as the little guys upstage the main event.

Regarding a May-Pac mailbag, I will probably will have to do that, especially when the fight gets close. I had enough spillover Mayweather-Pacquiao emails from the weekend to fill mailbags for every day of the week. I’m not gonna put out five mailbags this week, but that gives you an idea of how much activity “the announcement” sparked.

(However, I might devote a rare Mid-week mailbag – remember those? – to Mayweather-Pacquiao emails on Wednesday.)

GGG AND THAT “OTHER” FIGHT

Sup D-man. Not quite sure if I should call you that, but it sounds like He-Man so why not?

What can I say about Gennady Golovkin that won’t be said in the mailbag? We thought he was an elite fighter, but now we know it. As far as I’m concerned he’s the creme de la creme of 160, in the same sense that Klitschko is untouchable at heavyweight, Chocolatito is best at 112 and Floyd is at top welter.

Martin Murray was basically the best 160 pounder not named GGG. I think he’d beat Andy Lee and Peter Quillin (though they’re all at similar levels). Just like with Floyd and Klitschko, I only wanna see this guy with the best available elite guys (e.g. Carl Froch, Andre Ward, even Sergey Kovalev, LOL). If not, then awkward challenging fighters like an Erislandy Lara, James DeGale, etc. Or I’m not interested in giving anymore credit.

I’m not being harsh. It’s just how I’d treat any other elite, potentially GREAT fighter.

Oh, and they made that other fight this week didn’t they? In all seriousness, if Floyd won, could you take the abuse you’d get underneath the mailbag and on Twitter from Flomos? I fear for your sanity, so we all better hope Pac spanks him or you’ll have to write your mailbags from a mental institution (if you don’t top yourself that is). Either way, I wouldnt wanna be you.

Mythical matchup:

You & Steve Kim vs Stephen A Smith and Skip Bae-less (see what I did there?) Skip’s not a threat in my humble opinion, but Stephen A Strikes me as a brother who can throw down if s__t got real!

I’d like to thank Al Haymon. No sarcasm, I actually mean it this time. Haha what’s the world coming to? – Savage One, London

Kim would likely KO both Smith and Bayless with his “Korean Hammer” (his vaunted right hand that often shakes the Wild Card Boxing Club to its rafters when he works the heavy bag) without my having to get involved. I could play the role of the K-Hammer’s manager, WWE style, like Jimmy “Mouth from the South” Hart (hey, I got the long hair; all I need are some shades). By the way, if Kim got dropped (he can punch but word is his chin ain’t made of the sturdiest stuff), my guess is that Bayless would clip him, not Smith. Just a hunch.

I’m gonna have to hear from a__hole fanboys regardless of who wins on May 2. If I pick Mayweather to win, which I’m leaning towards, I’ll have to hear it from Pacquiao’s legion of faithful fools (who are still miffed that I picked Tim Bradley to win the rematch last year). If I pick Pacquiao, obviously, I’ll have to hear it from The Money Team Morons, who will demand that I write and post a heartfelt apology in RING magazine, RingTV.com and all its social media platforms. (I’m not joking. I would fully expect that reaction, as many of those dweebs demanded such after the Canelo fight.)

Even if I pick correctly, some of these pinheads will still be mad at me just for giving the other a guy a chance in my fight analysis. But I won’t be the only boxing person they put into the nuthouse. The fans of whoever wins will make everyone sick with their endless celebration of “I Told You Sos,” and the fans of whoever loses will drive everyone crazy with their sour grapes.

I think Golovkin is indeed proving that he’s an elite fighter. However, I still want to see him face a few of his fellow middleweight standouts before taking on the best that the 168-pound division has to offer, namely the winner of the Lee-Quillin fight.

There’s no sense in demanding that his next fight be against Froch or Ward because if you follow boxing you know that neither super middleweight standout will be ready to face GGG in May or June. Froch is mending from an injury and has made it clear for months that he wants Chavez Jr. next. Ward, who has been inactive for more than a year, is still without a fight date and may not return until June (although he’d like to be back as soon as April). His first fight back will not be against the likes of GGG. It might take two or three bouts for Ward to completely knock off his ring rust. We’ll see.

As for Kovalev, he’s got Jean Pascal to deal with next month. If he defeats the former champ, my guess is that his handlers will push for an undisputed championship unification with Adonis Stevenson, which will probably prove fruitless. Down the line, certainly not this year, I think Kovalev-Golovkin is a matchup that can happen, but I don’t think it will make any sense until GGG proves himself at 168 pounds. One way to get the ball rolling toward that boxer-puncher showdown is for the two to share a card. (Maybe GGG vs. Quillin/Krusher vs. Sean Monaghan in NYC; or GGG vs. George Groves/Krusher vs. Jurgen Brahmer in England or Germany; or who knows? If Krusher vs. Stevenson finally happens, maybe GGG vs. Lemieux could be the co-feature to one huge event in Montreal.)

As far as “awkward boxers with “challenging” styles, I have no desire to see Golovkin share the ring with Lara. The Cuban lefty barely stood his ground with Canelo. What do you think he’s going to do against GGG? (It doesn’t matter what Lara does, I don’t see that fight going past five rounds.) If you want to see Golovkin in with an awkward mover style, I think Hassan Ndam or one of the Dirrell brothers makes more sense than Lara (no disrespect meant to the southpaw, I just don’t think he has the size or strength to last with GGG). Sign me up for Golovkin vs. DeGale. That’s an interesting fight.

MAYWEATHER-PACQUIAO MATCHUP

Ok so here’s the thing, when Mayweather struggles, it’s in the first 4 or 5 rounds. If you are going to get him, this is when it’s got to happen. His slow starts in the past have hurt him against quality opponents such as Marcos Maidana, Miguel Cotto, Shane Mosley and Zab Judah.

I fully expect Pacquiao to come out guns blazing in the first 15 minutes (think Pac/Marquez 4 type ferocity) and land as many hard shots as he can, to Mayweather’s body in particular. If he can drop Money once or twice and put some real hurt on his body, I do not see Mayweather running away with the last 7 rounds. Pacquiao can simply use his faster feet and high punch volume to get the win by taking 2 of the last 7 rounds, which is well within the realms of possibility.

I know I’m going against the bookmakers however, I truly believe Pacquiao can get it done. Enjoy the fight gents. Cheers. – Craig Brewer, Singapore

You’re going against the bookmakers right now, Craig. I don’t know how long that will be the case. Mayweather opened as a 3-to-1 favorite. Those odds are already down to 2-to-1, so clearly Pacquiao has the support of his fans (who will probably get the odds down to even-money by fight time) but also neutral folks who share your belief.

I’m not a betting man, but I agree that this is a fight that Pacquiao can win. And I don’t think he needs to score a knockdown or come out guns blazing to ensure the victory, either. I just think he has to establish his jab first (which he can do against Floyd, being a southpaw), be the busier boxer and give the undefeated American angles when he’s in range. I think if Pacquiao tries too hard to hurt Mayweather, there’s a greater risk of falling into the hometown favorite’s traps. I want to see if Manny can throw Floyd off with his feints and footwork.

If he can, I think he just needs to swarm Mayweather a couple of times each round as the undefeated boxer goes into defense mode or backs to the ropes in order to gain the edge on the scorecards. Of course, Mayweather could simply refuse to back up and look to be the one to land the hurtful punches early in the fight. That wouldn’t entirely surprise me. Those early rounds will very interesting if Mayweather decides to draw a line in the sand.

48-0

#theneverendingstory is over! Long live the #neverendingmailbag as I am sure Ring magazine servers will explode with emails from thirsty pugilistic enthusiasts looking to contribute their 2 cents to your mailbag.

I see 48 and 0 for money after this. I simply know he will do what he needs to win. I see him exchanging a few times with Pac and winning but at the same time only doing so just enough to win rounds. Is that what turns you off about Mayweather? The fact that he seems to do only enough to win? The fact that he doesn’t go for the kill because he doesn’t want to risk his getting caught?

I never saw Floyd live at lighter weights but it seems like he used to put guys away in his earlier days. But I thought he could’ve knocked out my favorite fighter Juan Manuel Marquez, Robert Guerrero, Miguel Cotto, and perhaps even Canelo. I felt that in those matches his punching power was enough to clearly hurt the other fighter but because of his concern with getting caught, he’s more content in putting rounds in the bank then putting the other guy away. To make your all time great list does a fighter have to be willing to take risks and go for the KO? I may not know enough about boxing history to give a great opinion but to me it seems that his resume and for the most part the very clear victories (albeit not very entertaining) he’s had over his opponents should put him up there right? I mean, hey, I know this fight was long overdue but if he beats Pacquiao convincingly do we not give him the same amount of credit then if he would’ve done so 4 or 5 years ago? I mean hey lets also remember Mayweather is also the older of the two and he has the most to lose to father Time of the two because he relies on defense and reflexes to counter and not on power which is supposed to be the last thing a fighter loses.

I hope I didn’t come off as a Mayweather nut-hugger but I do have a lot of respect for his dedication to his craft and his ability to outclass his opponents although he will never be a favorite of mine because of his lack of entertainment value in the ring. – Mainor

You didn’t come off as a hugger; a closet cheerleader, maybe; a Mayweather apologist, definitely, but not a hugger. LOL. I’m just messing with you, Mainor.

Neither fighter will get the same credit they would have had the fight taken place in 2010 or early 2011 (when both appeared to be at their peaks as welterweights). Not from me, anyway. I’m simply too deep into the history of the sport to pretend that it’s the same matchup. Muhammad Ali lost an all-time classic 15-round heavyweight championship to Joe Frazier in 1971. The Fight of the Century defines the legendary careers of both fighters. Had Ali, who was only two bouts removed from his three-year exile from the sport, demanded that he needed more time to get his “groove back” (as some modern boxers would put it) and waited to fight Frazier when the frenetic battle-happy pressure fighter began to slow down (which was inevitable given his style) or after the Philly warrior was beat up by George Foreman in 1973, the Greatest probably would have won their first fight, but the matchup wouldn’t nearly have been as significant. Does that make sense to you? The Frazier-Ali matchup was historically significant in ’71 because both heavyweights were undefeated with legitimate claims to the championship. Their 15-round brawl was for it all, ya dig?

Same deal when Sugar Ray Leonard faced Thomas Hearns for the first time in 1981. But it wasn’t just for all the championship marbles at welterweight – it was a showdown between the two best American boxers, pound for pound, and they got it on when both looked like they were at the peak of their physical and boxing prowess. Leonard could have looked at Hearns’ freakish 6-foot-1 frame and thought himself “If I wait another year to face this monster, he’ll probably outgrow the 147-pound division and I can get him when he’s weight drained and not have go life and death with him.” And you know what? Had Leonard made Hearns wait until ’82 and demanded that the fight took place at 147 pounds (even if the Hitman had already moved up to 154 pounds) he probably would have been right. But then the fight wouldn’t have had as much significance. Imagine if Hearns struggled in a welterweight bout against an ordinary fighter due to weight troubles before he got to test himself against Leonard? He wouldn’t have had his aura of invincibility and the showdown wouldn’t have been the same.

If Pernell Whitaker didn’t take on Julio Cesar Chavez in September 1993 when the Mexican icon was undefeated (87-0) his boxing clinic during that infamous draw wouldn’t hold the same significance. Imagine if Whitaker fought Chavez after that legendary win streak was snapped by Frankie Randall in early ’94? Even if Whitaker won a wide unanimous decision, it still wouldn’t mean as much as that draw did against the undefeated Mexican hero, would it?

Anyway, I go into this stuff in the commentary piece I wrote last year on my top-20 modern greats. Read it because I clearly list out my criteria for “greatness” in the article.

One certainly doesn’t necessarily have to be a risk-taker in the ring or a KO-hunter to make the list (although it certainly does hurt). I ranked more than a few pure boxers, technicians and defensive specialists (some of whom retired with mediocre/low KO percentages), including Willie Pep (No. 3), Muhammad Ali (No. 5), Billy Conn (No. 9), Pernell Whitaker (No. 11), Jimmy Bivins (No. 17) and Bernard Hopkins (No. 20). Sammy Angott, who I also ranked in the top 20, didn’t score many knockouts (22 out of 94 wins).

Mayweather did indeed put guys away more when he fought from 130-140, which shouldn’t come as any surprise as he was younger (with all the impetuousness that comes with youth) and usually the bigger man back then. I agree that he could have stopped the fighters you mentioned had he tried to. He’s a lot stronger and punches harder than even some of his loyal huggers are aware of. However, the desire to earn a stoppage is no longer a part of his mentality/style anymore. Besides getting knocked out in the late rounds of a fight he’s ahead on points, like Conn was against Joe Louis in their first fight, is probably a recurring nightmare of Floyd’s.

I think most of the U.S. boxing media and the majority of fans worldwide agree with you that Mayweather will do what it takes to neutralize and outpoint Pacquiao over the distance to improve to 48-0. As sharp as Manny looked last year, he’s still only three bouts away from being KTFO. Mayweather deserves to be the favorite.

MAYWEATHER VS. BROOK

Hi Dougie
With the mega fight finally announced do you think that Mayweather would face Kell Brook in September to officially unify the welterweight division if he wins convincingly? I think it’d be a good way to secure his legacy and a great way to retire. – Pete Sussex, UK

I don’t see that happening, Pete. Mayweather will likely fight someone in Al Haymon’s stable after Pacquiao, and then either hang ’em up or fight the Filipino legend again (depending on how the first fight goes).

WHAT NOW FOR MURRAY?

Snow-beer-mailbag Hi D!

There are a few things I really look forward to: quality time with my lovely wife; reading the Monday and Friday Mailbag, and a few brewskies while watching some great boxing.

And WOW this week didn’t disappoint! Murray has balls as big as church bells!

Now, I just have two simple questions – where does Murray go from here, and do you think GGG’s performance helps him securing the money fights because he had to go to 11 rounds or does it hurt him because he laid down so much pain sustained over such a long period?

(PS – speaking of beers – I hope you like my photo of my “environmentally friendly beer fridge”) – Mike from Miramichi, NB, Canada

I guess that’s one advantage of living in an ice cold/snowed-in climate.

I think Murray is still a player at 160 pounds. I know GGG is on a mission to collect all the belts but I don’t think he’s going to get them all before a big 168-pound fight lures him up to super middleweight. If Golovkin doesn’t get the winner of Lee-Quillin, I think Murray would make a worthy challenger for the WBO beltholder (especially if it’s Lee). I wouldn’t mind watching Murray challenge the winner of the proposed Ndam-Lemieux fight for the IBF strap.

I also think Murray could be a player at super middleweight. He seems to have the frame and bone structure to carry 168 pounds efficiently. And there are interesting domestic showdowns vs. the likes of Groves, DeGale and Paul Smith that can be made.

I don’t think Golovkin did himself any favors with the extended beating he dished out to Murray. I can’t imagine any 160 pounder thinking to himself “Boy, I’d love to switch places with that guy – things would be a lot different if I were in there, by golly!” while watching that fight.

Thanks for the kind words about the mailbag, Mike.

TWO THINGS LEARNED FROM GOLOVKIN-MURRAY

Tom Loeffler has a very difficult job ahead of him. Finding four quality fighters per year willing to get in the ring with Golovkin will be very hard without dipping into the light heavies and cruiserweights.
Andre Ward has a very difficult job ahead of him. Golovkin just showed how to neutralize a big part of Ward’s game. Martin Murray seemed determined to hold from the opening moments, but after a couple rounds paying the price when he leaned in for a hug, he stopped doing it.

I’m sure you agree with the first point, how about the second? Also, what would you call the punch GGG used to knock out Rubio? That ¾ overhand left-hook to the forehead he also landed several times against Murray?

Keep up the good work. – Chuck

I call that the “Kazakh Special,” Chuck. And I think it will work just as effectively against the likes of Ward.

Yes, I agree with both of your points.

Loeffler and HBO are either going to have to settle for GGG facing respectable fringe contender types, such as Tureano Johnson and Willie Munroe Jr. (both of whom are in the WBC’s top 10), while waiting for unification bouts to materialize, or they’re going to have to start making offers to willing 168 and 175 pounders.

Maybe Felix Sturm is finally willing to get into the ring with his old promotional stablemate. Maybe Top Rank is willing to roll the dice (or cash out) with young Gilberto Ramirez. Maybe Mikkel Kessler will un-retire for the right amount of money. Maybe the winner of the March 14 showdown between South African light heavyweights – Thomas Oosthuizen and Ryno Liebenberg – will be willing to match their size against GGG’s vaunted power, technique and ring generalship.

Regarding Ward, I used to think he was the one guy who could beat Golovkin. I’m not so sure about that anymore. GGG definitely knows how to cut the ring off. We knew that. But he showed against Murray that you can’t just shut him down by holding, clinching or grappling.

Having said that, I think you and I both know that Ward is a lot more skilled on the inside than Murray and probably stronger than the tough Brit. Plus Ward’s a slicker boxer than Murray and has more offensive tools. Both 2004 Olympians have their work cut out for them if and when they fight.

ANNOYED WITH GGG

Hey Doug,

Maybe I’m the only one but I am annoyed with GGG! For the last year all I keep reading is about GGG being the most feared man in boxing, no middleweight is willing to fight him and so on. Now, all I read is about a Cotto showdown. Even if GGG beats Cotto, so what?? I expect him to win since Cotto is not a real middleweight, he’s a small dude for that division. I think his team needs to stop whining and move to 168 and pick on dudes his own size. Thoughts?? – Oscar, Ontario, Canada

I have no interest in seeing Cotto-Golovkin, either. I think GGG slaughters the Puerto Rican star and I don’t want that to happen. (I like Cotto!) However, I understand why Team Golovkin wants that fight. Cotto is the linear champ, the holder of THE RING and WBC titles, a name, a draw and a first-ballot hall of famer. GGG’s rapidly building his name among hardcore heads but he’s still unknown to casual boxing fans. Cotto’s scalp will change all of that.

Tom Loeffler and Abel Sanchez are students of boxing history and both have been around for decades. They know Golovkin can transition into the mainstream consciousness through Cotto, just as middleweight champs Carlos Monzon, Marvin Hagler and Bernard Hopkins did with the lighter-weight stars of their eras (Griffith, Napoles, Duran, Hearns, Leonard, Trinidad, De La Hoya).

SORRY COTTO!

Miguel-Cotto-splashed So Freddy Roach will undoubtedly be focused on Manny and busy with interviews to care about Cotto and the tomato can he’ll be fighting next.