Dougie’s MASSIVE Monday mailbag
TWO QUICKIE QUESTIONS
Doug – 1) What should Antonio Margarito do next? and 2) Does his performance in any way alter your opinion on when previously he may or may not have had his gloves loaded? — Kevin Key, St. Cloud, MN
1) Rest his battered brain and seriously consider retirement.
2) No, it doesn’t.
PAC PROVES ME WRONG AGAIN
David Haye-Audley Harrison was ridiculous! Man – what a joke! Harrison connected with one soft-ass jab, his big-ass was scared to death. Other than that, no comment.
Bam Bam Rios will probably go the way of Margarito, only I don’t think his career will even be that long, bruz eats way too many shots.
Rigondeaux looked like the aggressor for the first half of the fight, until he got tagged, then the wheels came out. Cordoba was just trying to stay out of range in the beginning, what the Brits call ‘being negative’. Problem was, that Mexican-Filipino crowd (and Steve Kim) was the wrong audience for a finesse fighter. I admire skill and chess-matches as well as slugfests, so I enjoyed it, but that crowd wanted blood, it probably felt like ancient Rome in that arena. Still, that was a significant step up for Guillermo, lets see what happens with him.
I thought that Mike Jones lost, I had Karass by at least two points. Jones showed heart, but those body shots were eating him up after he punched himself out early.
Pacquiao – man, what a clinic! How much is that crow soup again? I’m going to need a double serving, so is there a sale going on? You told me you would give me my props if I were right, so now you gotta dog me, cause I was dead wrong!
I picked Pac against DLH (I never thought much of Oscar), but I picked against him for the Cotto and Margarito fights, but Manny just keeps on rollin’.
You have to give it to Pac, he beat the man that Mayweather would not fight for 9 million a while back, and beat him handedly. Pac said it was not easy, and I believe him, looking at his face after the fight, and seeing him doubled over from that body shot in the 6th round. But he sucked it up and fought through it.
However, Pac gets hit a lot (which of course adds to his appeal). During the interviews and the presser he looked like he was going to pass out to me. Manny looked like crap at the end of his fights with Marquez, Cotto, Clottey and Margarito. In every one of those fights except Clottey, its a case of “but you should have seen the other guy”. Which still makes me want to see Pac in with a defensively slick fighter. If Pac is getting hit, but cannot return fire, things would get interesting.
Margarito did what I thought he would (uppercuts, body shots), but just not enough of it. Pac’s offense affected Tony much more than I thought it would. It could be that Manny punches harder than I think, and also probably the wars that Antonio has been through (his punch resistance seems less since the Cotto fight).
I read on Fightnews that “attendance was 41,734. That is about 9,000 less fans than the Pacquiao-Clottey event drew last March”. That was quite a bit less than the 70,000 that Arum had predicted, or even the 60,000 figure that was thrown around by writers and HBO. It was still a big event, but Pac-PBF would be massive. Floyd needs to find his nuts and sign for the fight. Peace. — Steve
Don’t hold your breath for Pacquiao-Mayweather, Steve. Mayweather and his uncle/trainer Roger have their legal problems to deal with before anyone can seriously sit down and discuss THE Superfight of the 21st Century.
The 42,000 attendance number tells me three things: our economy isn’t getting any better, Texas fans didn’t go for the “Party Passes” as they did with the Clottey fight, and the novelty of Pacquiao fighting in Cowboys Stadium is starting to wear off.
There’s a fourth factor: perhaps like most of the media, many fans gave Magarito no shot of beating Pacquiao.
I like Margarito, which sets me apart from what seems like 99 percent of the world, so I wanted to see him do well and after watching him train a few times I thought he would accomplish two things in this fight: go the distance and make it “interesting” in a few rounds (but still lose a unanimous decision).
I think he did that, but after watching the fight I have two very basic observations (that I’m sure everyone else shares): Margarito shouldn’t have been allowed to go the distance and Pacquiao takes an even better punch than I thought he did. Or to put it another way: Pacquiao is just as tough as Margarito. When you factor that toughness in with his talent and technique it’s not hard to understand why he is so successful, even against more complete (at the time) boxers like Barrera, Morales and Marquez, and against naturally bigger men like Cotto, Clottey and Margz.
Anyway, regarding the crow eating, no need for that here. I’m not going to “dog” anyone out for going out on a limb on a boxing prediction. This isn’t a message board or boxing forum that’s populated by hyper-sensitive chimps masquerading as fight fans. It’s not like you were disrespectful or dismissive of Pacquiao in your prediction of a Margarito victory. You simply went with the bigger, heavier man. No big deal. If Pacquiao wasn’t as freakin’ tough as he is your prediction may have panned out.
A lot of world-class welterweights (which is what Pac is, and a small one at that) would have folded from the body shots that Margarito landed in rounds six, seven and eight.
Hey, Pacquiao is special. End of story.
Having said that I think it’s clear that he’s not untouchable in the ring. I would also like to see how he fares against a defensive specialist/counter-puncher with enough power to get some respect — one who is just as special as he is — Mayweather. I think both fighters present stylistic problems for the other. Sadly, like you noted, Pac’s potential dance partner avoided Margarito in 2006, even though he was guaranteed $8 million (not $9 million, although he probably would have made that much or more with the PPV upside that was part of Arum’s very attractive deal). Does Mayweather really want to get into the ring with an offensive force that puts even the prime-version of Margarito to shame?
I hope the answer is yes. On to your undercard observations:
Rios: He does indeed catch a lot. He doesn’t have much in the way of head or upper-body moment. (Those type of pressure fighters — think Joe Fraizer and a young Mike Tyson — seem to be a thing of the past. Although, I think Rios would have been a little better at picking off punches had he had more time to prepare for his opponent and the opportunity that Kelly Pavlik dropped in his lap.) I think the comparison to Margarito is something we’ll hear a lot about as Rios makes his run for titles at 135 and 140. Personally, I think he’ll be lucky to equal Margarito’s accomplishments or have the Mexican’s longevity. Margarito is a former three-time welterweight beltholder who has been a pro for nearly 17 years. He engaged in 15 title bouts and fought 11 fighters who were ranked by THE RING magazine. Not too shabby. If Rios does half as much he’ll emerge as one of the sports most popular fighters and make some very good money.
Rigondeaux: I was impressed with the Cuban southpaw performance because I know how good and experienced his opponent is. I thought the fight was interesting given Rigondeaux’s pro experience and various tactics but not compelling in terms of action. I know the undercard of Pacquiao-Margarito in Texas wasn’t the most appreciative audience for the kind of boxing match Rigondeaux and Cordoba gave us, but do you really think a Las Vegas or Atlantic City or New York City fight crowd would have been that much more interested in Rigondeaux-Cordoba regardless of who was in the main event? I don’t think so. I think Miami, with its large Cuban population, might the only spot for Rigondeaux. And if Top Rank wants to make for entertaining TV they need to match the Cuban super talent with very strong, very aggressive fighters. I wish Mahyar Monshipour were still around for Rigondeaux to fight. That would be compelling.
Jones: Before I even give my scorecard I’ve got to ask WHAT THE HELL was he thinking in the second round!?!? I like that he jumped on Karass after he hurt him, but how about giving his wounded-duck opponent some angles in close? How about taking a step back to get more leverage on his shots? How about tapping homie’s body a few times? How about realizing that the dude has never been stopped and that there are potentially eight more rounds to go? Jones had that round in the bag the moment he wobbled Karass. Why would a guy with 22 fights and almost five years in the pro game spaz out like a kid in the junior Golden Gloves? I don’t know, man. I also thought Karass won by two points, six rounds to four, but I didn’t have a problem with the decision. I scored rounds 1 and 2 for Jones and I thought the Philly fighter sucked it up and took the final two rounds. I scored the middle six for Karass but I thought the seventh or eighth rounds could have gone either way, so I’m not going to holler “robbery!” However, although they both showed a ton of heart and gave fans a fun fight, I thought Jones and Karass instantly qualified for the “Andre Berto-opponent sweepstakes” with their performances. Jones was amateurish and Karass was painfully slow and plodding.
Regarding Haye-Harrison: Who cares?
AWESOME MANNY, USELESS UNDERCARD
I'll be brief here. I had my worries going in but by round three it was clear that Manny had things under control. He gave an impressive performance which only enhanced his growing legend. It was very exciting to watch him work his master class on the fine points of the art of Boxing. I'm sure he further scared the hell out of Floyd Mayweather (who clearly doesn't want to fight and will continue to duck and run.)
Now for the undercard. Three hours of my life I will never get back. I'm not even going to mention the participants.
I would gladly have paid the $65 up front to just see the main event than have to sit through all of that crap. Could we possibly get that option in the future? MMA (them again?) at least give THEIR fans well matched, action packed undercards (are you listening Bob Arum and Golden Boy? Probably not.)
Finally….. the musical undercard. The what? Nelly?….WTF!!!!! I don't want to hear (or see) that! It made me angry…. it was fight time. There's no rapping in Boxing! I'm a classic Rocker but I don't really want to see The Who or Eric Clapton play a tune before the main event. It didn't sound like the crowd was much into it either. I didn't hear too much crowd response to the music.
BTW…. considering it was Texas, I think ZZ Top might have been more appropriate in musical terms. Anyway….. Williams and Martinez next Saturday. Can't wait. — David, Nashville
The undercard probably would have been more entertaining had the Pavlik-Vera fight been on it but I thought it was OK as is. We saw an exciting up-and-comer in Rios, got a look at an amazing talent in Rigondeaux, who was tested in a few ways, and we were treated to a fun welterweight fight with Jones-Karass.
I agree 100-percent that the mini-Nelly concert was completely un-called for and totally out of place. I don’t know if that was Arum’s doing or HBO’s but whoever came up with that idea needs to be shot. After suffering through THREE freakin’ national anthems (and yes, I said “suffer,” I am so tired of sitting through these dram things) having to listen to Nelly was a slap in the face. Nobody who ordered the fight wanted to see that guy, including the handful who have his CDs among their collections.
You would never see that crap on a UFC card, PPV or otherwise. Wake up, boxing! Give fans good, entertaining matchups and don’t make them wait forever between bouts on pay-per-view cards.
Everyone now is going to say “See Margarito must have cheated, he couldn't knockout a guy 17 pounds lighter than himself”. Which is pretty faulty logic since Margarito couldn't lay a glove on Pacquaio the entire fight. Margarito took a beating and didn't really help his reputation out besides showing he is a tough S.O.B. but everyone knew that already. I think he should call it a day, I don't see him beating any world class fighters now. He is the Mexican version of RJJ.
I think people are now overrating Pacquaio (he isn't top 10 of all time IMO like people are saying). I think De La Hoya would have the same resume had he fought the exact same opposition as Pac. I'm not a big De La Hoya fan but he seems to get underrated these days. I think his opposition was better than Pacquaio's and this is coming from a big Pacquaio fan. I remember when Pacquaio fought Lucero right before he fought Barrera and Steward was pumping up Pacquaio as a threat to any of the top featherweights. I've followed his career for a long time and he is no doubt a great fighter.
Pac has won 8 titles but there are like 2000 belts these days and he never really dominated one weight class. If Pac really wants to enhance his legacy, he should unify a division before he retires, like welterweight or junior-middle. I see a guy like Dzinziruk or Angelo giving him problems and I don't think he beats Mayweather. Call me a hater if you like but that is just how I see it. — Jake, Portland
You’re a hater, Jake. LOL. However, if leaving Pacquiao out of one’s all-time great top 10 makes you a “hater” then I guess I am too!
Pacquiao’s a first-ballot hall of famer, and I would argue that he is a great fighter — not because he won titles or championship recognition in eight weight classes — but because he fought and beat arguably great fighters such as Barrera, Marquez and Morales, and he defeated top-rated contenders in many (but not all) of the divisions he campaigned in.
Folks who think that Pacquiao’s dominance during his awesome climb in weight is unprecedented should take a look at some of the names that made a list of fighters I included in this article, Manny Pacquiao and history's greatest weight climbers; those fighters are just as “great” as Pacquiao.
However, I don’t get upset when I hear or read articles proclaiming Pacquiao as the greatest fighter ever. All that means is that Pacquiao is an ultra-talented fighter who happens to be the most popular boxer in the world right who is also recognized as the pound-for-pound best. Everyone tends to lose their minds a little bit when they witness so-called “once-in-a-lifetime” talents.
For example, it was only eight years ago when Roy Jones Jr. was proclaimed by MANY to be the G.O.A.T. after he beat John Ruiz. Twenty-two years ago Mike Tyson, fresh off his destruction of Michael Spinks, was WIDELY regarded as the greatest heavyweight champion in history.
What happened? They lost. And they continued to fight until they got to the point where they lost more than they won. Now everyone has perspective.
The same thing will probably happen to Pacquiao and Floyd Mayweather Jr. I doubt either man will walk away and stay away while he’s on top of his game and on top of the sport.
I’m guessing a lot of Pac-fans and May-huggers are calling me a “hater” right now, so I might as well add “shill” to their name calling by stating that I agree that De La Hoya is often underrated.
MANNY AND THE JETS
I thought it was a somewhat disappointing night in Dallas.
I think Brandon Rios is punk, but he looks like a beast. Not sure how he will handle a world class stylist or someone who hits back hard for that matter (he appears easy to find on the chin), but he took care of business in impressive fashion Saturday night.
I was really looking forward to seeing Rigondeaux in action against a good opponent, but man was that fight a stinker and he did nothing to impress. Cordoba appeared to be scared to death of him in the first few rounds and it looked like Rigondeaux would move on to a ho-hum decision victory, but then he got tagged for a flash knockdown and the entire mood of the fight changed. One thing is for sure, as talented as he is, he is not ready for Nonito Donaire or some of the other big names Arum was talking about matching him with before the fight.
Was Mike Jones exposed? I don't know about all that but I thought Soto-Karass deserved the decision. I thought in this instance the underdog deserved the fight with his effective aggression…
(I thought the scoring in the Rigondeaux & Jones fights was 'curious'ÔÇª)
I guess Manny-Margs went the way most observers thought it would, Margarito made him work, but I gave the Mexican only two or three rounds at the most. This hasn't been a good week for Robert Garcia who took part in 'Roach-Gate' and then went on to sit by idly and let his fighter absorb a frightful beating at the tail end of the fight. I keep hearing about how this guy is a “good guy” and a “great trainer”, but the lack of professionalism he displayed during this promotion and the fact that he might have let serious damage occur to his fighter left me wholly unimpressed.
So what's next for Manny? Unless a fight with Mayweather can be made or he tries out one of the young guns at 140lbs, I have to say I'm really not interested. If he actually fights Cotto again I might lose my mind. Marquez at 140 lbs isn't a competitive fight in my eyes anymore as the proud Mexican is pushing himself to be effective @135 lbs. Everyone wants to see that fight but unless Manny is willing to drop back down to lightweight its a whitewash and Pacquiao who fights far more aggressively than Floyd (who apparently only gets aggressive when he is beating up the mother of his children) will knockout his rival. But where else can Manny go? If Sergio Martinez gets by Paul Williams maybe they could make some form of catchweight (there's that word again) bout for the middleweight title at like 157 lbs?
Williams would be out of the question, after watching Pacquiao dominate-but labor at times-against a much bigger foe, I think P-Will’s work rate and size would spell disaster for the Pac-Monster. Martinez isn't as big though and that could be an interesting fight. I have no desire to see him fight Shane Mosley either. Pac is a great fighter, the #1 dog in the sport at the moment, but he needs to step up now and demand a fight against a viable opponent if a Maywether fight cannot be made. If he sits back and allows Arum to match him with Cotto or Mosley, I will be sorely disappointed.
Couldn't believe the attendance, thought it would be much higher. — Tom G.
Hey, 41,000-plus is nothing to scoff at. But maybe counting on Mexican fans to bump the 50,000 Pac did vs. Clottey to 70,000 for Margz was faulty thinking by Arum and the media. Maybe Mexican fans are smarter than that.
I agree that Williams is all wrong for Pacquiao — too tall, too rangy, so much faster than Margz, even busier than the Mexican but just as tough, and a southpaw to boot! Forget about it, Roach would never accept that fight for his star and he doesn’t have to worry about it either. Arum wouldn’t touch P-Will with a 500-foot stick. P-Will’s physical tools aside, he’s promoted by Dan Goossen and managed by Al Haymon, so it’s doubtful Arum would put Vanes Martirosyan or Yuri Foreman in with him, never mind Top Rank stars like Pac and Cotto.
I also have no interest in Pacquiao fighting Cotto again. If the Mayweather super fight can’t be made the winner of Bradley-Alexander would be interesting, even if Roach made them come up to welterweight, which he absolutely would. We’ve seen that greater size doesn’t mean much to Pacquiao (although I think Martinez and Williams are too big for him — but hey, they’re middleweights). Let’s see how he does with comparable speed.
Forget about Marquez, he can’t effectively carry anything over 135 pounds and Pacquiao won’t dip below 144 pounds to fight him. Besides, the lightweight champ has his hands full with Katsidis this month. We shouldn’t assume Marquez is going to win that fight.
Garcia did indeed have a bad week, but he’s still a good guy and very promising trainer, IMO. He’ll bounce back. You’ll see.
Was Mike Jones exposed? Dude, Jones went life-and-death with Jesus Soto-Karass, a guy who was easily out-boxed by Alfonso Gomez before he got himself DQ’d. What do you think?
I disagree with your call on Rigondeaux. I think he’s ready for anybody at 122 pounds. Do I think he’ll beat all the top fighters he faces? No. But he can definitely hang with anyone and I believe he would give Donaire, who is unproven at 118 pounds, a stern challenge. Let’s see how Donaire handles Fernando Montiel. He’s never fought an experienced boxer as savvy as Ricardo Cordoba, let alone guys like Montiel and Rigondeaux.
Rios is going to be must-see TV until he faces someone like Miguel Acosta. Then he’s in trouble, but win, lose or draw, he’ll make it interesting.
HAYE AND PAC MUST FIGHT THE BEST
First off, Haye vs Harrison proved to be as one sided as most were predicting. Audley did his rabbit in the headlights impression and I think threw about 5 punches (all jabs) and landed one. Was quite funny (in a demented way) watching it to be honest, and I'm pretty sure Haye could've ended it inside 10 seconds if he'd opened up from the first bell rather waiting 8 minutes. Haye HAS to fight a K-Bro next, if he doesn't then… oh eff it, I can't be bothered with him anymore if he doesn't. Funny thing is, I think he beats both of them due to his edge in athleticism and speed, he'd probably knock out Wlad as well.
And Pacquiao, please fight someone who isn't a Top Rank punching bag. If he goes for Cotto next in a rematch I'll go f__king potty, may even go as far as writing a letter to the old git Arum himself. Even heard Mosley could be in the cards, and the only reason I'd like to see that fight is for the Pacretardednuthuggers then try and claim that Mosley is now a legit fighter after they disregarded FMJ's win over him due to age, etc! Seriously, it HAS to be either Mayweather, Martinez or Williams — the 2 latter fighters must be @ 154 and obviously the former would probably be down @ 147. I couldn't give a flying f__k if Manny chooses to fight someone else. Something's telling me that I'm getting my hopes up and we'll have another brawling punch bag for him to beat up on.
Side note, it's one thing to verbally knock one off over what Manny did to Margarito, it's another to realise that Margarito is a brawler who looked painfully slower than usual. Heck, put Mosley back in there with him and you'd see Sugar Shane knock him out again. Ta. — Geoff, London
Maybe, but Mosley would’ve had to work harder than he did the first time he faced Margarito. I think Pacquiao fought a healthier, better-prepared version of Margarito than Mosley did last January.
I don’t think we’ll ever see Pac in against comparable giants like Martinez and Williams. Everyone says and writes that he had an “easy” time beating up on Margarito but there was nothing easy about that beat down he administered. It’s incredibly stressful being in the ring with a nutcase stalker like Margarito, especially when he’s 17 pounds heavier. Roach and Co. were nervous every time their man went to the ropes, even in the late rounds, because Margarito did have the power to hurt the little dynamo, and I think he did in a few rounds. Pac’s people would have to be crazy to put him in with guys who are bigger, faster and better-skilled than Margz.
Mayweather is a big enough challenge but Pacquiao can’t make the dude fight. I won’t blame Pac if the fight everyone wants to see fails come off next year (hell, it won’t be the Filipino hero’s fault if Floyd and/or Roger have to do time because of their issues with women). However, I won’t be excited at all to see Pac smack around Cotto or Chavez Jr. or whoever Arum proposes, either. For me it has to be Mayweather or the Bradley-Alexander winner or Pac might as well take the year off.
I feel sorry British fans who got excited about Haye-Harrison or still think that ‘the Hayemaker’ is going to make a splash in any market other than Britain. I don’t think he has much of an athletic edge over Wladdy, who not only dwarfs him but has better technique. And Big Bro? Forget about it. He can take Haye’s power and dish out a career-ending beating over 10 to 12 rounds. Haye’s better off targeting Adamek or Arreola.
Catch-weight controversy squashed Dougie. Manny beat a legit junior-middleweight who in my opinion would have given any of the other 154-lb champs trouble last night. History complete in my opinion.
Time for Manny to fully transgress to being a world-wide icon in politics. Beginning with the 10th round, where the Pacman decided not to finish Margs off, much to the chagrin of the loaded gloves, hydroxy-cut and Parkinson's mockery leading up to the bout.
If a certain individual can avoid the long arm of the law and his own ego long enough to come to the table and make a fight, then sureÔÇª one more for the “gipper.” Yeah, I went old-school entertainer turned politician on ya. Otherwise, we should have witnessed the end of an astounding career. The likes of which I don't think we'll see again in boxing when one considers the potential for future presidency. — JB
I agree. The afterglow of the Margarito victory is the perfect time for Pacquiao to hang ’em up and devote himself full-time to being a social figure/congressman for country as well as an worldwide ambassador for the sport. Some are saying he’s the greatest of all time after the Margarito beatdown (which is a little absurd considering many of those same people think Floyd Mayweather Jr. is the pound for pound best right now). If he quits now people will put him in the same sentence as Robinson, Pep, Louis and Ali.
But you and I both know that he will continue to fight. Pac’s a people-pleaser at heart and far too many people are making a fortune and/or gaining influence in certain arenas every time he fights. Nobody around him is going to tell him to hang up the gloves.
PACQUIAO VS. 8 GREATS
First off awesome job on the international commentary with the Colonial Bob S. You're still no Gus Johnson! LOL. Anyways down to my question… In light of Pacquiao's 8th divisional title, if you could pick 8 opponents for each of the 8 weight classes Pacman has won a title in, from flyweight to junior middleweight who would you want to see in these dream fights and who do you see winning, here's mine.
Flyweight – Jimmy Wilde – Pacman KO
Junior Featherweight – Wilfredo Gomez – Pacman by close decision.
Featherweight – Willie Pep – Probably the best boxer ever but I think Pacquiao's aggression would prevail to a late KO.
Junior Lightweight – Alexis Arguello – Someone would get stopped late.
Lightweight – Roberto Duran – Pacman would be too fast and score a decision.
Junior Welterweight – Julio Cesar Chavez – Chavez by SD, very tight fight, Chavez's countering would catch up with Pacquiao.
Welterweight – Sugar Ray Leonard – Speedy fight, Leonard by close UD.
Light Middleweight- Please gotta be Tommy Hearns, too much power for Pacman, Hearns by KO.
What do you think? Keep up the good work man. — Andrew
I didn’t do the international broadcast for Pacquiao-Margarito, but thanks anyway.
I wrote a fantasy column pitting Pac against my favorite “all-timers” in the 122-, 126-, 130-, 135- and 140-pound divisions prior to his fight with Hatton. They are the same fighters you put him in with except for at featherweight and junior welterweight. I had Pac fight Salvador Sanchez at 126 pounds and the late, great Mexican boxer out pointed him over 12. I had Pac clash with Aaron Pryor at 140 pounds and “the Hawk” won a fight-of-the-decade split decision. I had Gomez stopping Pac late at 122 pounds, Pac stopped Arguello late at 130, and Duran destroyed him at lightweight.
I wouldn’t put Pac in with Wilde for my fantasy flyweight matchup because I never saw the Welshman fight. I’d put him in with Mark Johnson, who happens to be the best 112-pound fighter I’ve ever seen with my own eyes. I think “Too Sharp” would have boxed circles around the dangerous but very raw flyweight version of Pacquiao. Johnson by UD, with the always brave Pacquiao giving him a couple of scary moments in one or two of the early and middle rounds.
I think Leonard stops Pacquiao somewhere in the middle rounds at welterweight. I don’t think it would be terribly competitive and that’s not meant as a slight to Pacquiao.
I think Hearns takes him out early at junior middleweight. Again, no disrespect to Pacquiao. I think Pac’s a great fighter, but even Duran was blasted by the Hitman at junior middleweight.