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Dougie’s FAT Friday Mailbag

25
Sep

A BREAK FROM MAYWEATHER

Hey Doug,
I’m sure you’ve had just about enough with Floyd-related emails. But don’t worry, this isn’t one. I just wanted to start by saying I am 100% with you on something you said in a previous mailbag: “If Mayweather’s next fight is not against Mosley or the Pacquiao-Cotto winner I don’t care to talk or write about him.” – My thoughts exactly. End of Mayweather talk for a while. Can we all move on now?

Looking ahead to something that more resembles an actual fight (as opposed to what we witnessed last Saturday), I definitely do think that Chris Arreola will make it a very TV-friendly fight, though I still see it ending with a Vitali Klitschko knockout. Arreola is aggressive and will most likely try to keep pressuring Vitali, but after seeing Klitschko trade bombs with a guy like Lennox Lewis I feel that his chin should be OKÔǪ and that’s providing Arreloa can actually find him through that somewhat awkward defense. But of course, with heavyweights that size, sometimes you just never know.

Going even a bit further ahead, specifically November 14th, I have to say that I’m leaning towards Miguel Cotto. It seems a lot of what I’ve been reading and a lot of people I talk to already have the Pacquiao-Mayweather fight set to go. Let’s not get too far ahead of ourselvesÔǪ this ain’t a Mayweather-Marquez matchup. Thanks. — Jesse, New Jersey

No doubt about that. We have ourselves a real fight on Nov. 14. I think Cotto can make 145 pounds and be as strong and powerful as he always is. Hell, he might be faster than usual. Roger Mayweather, who loves Cotto in that fight, explained the Pacquiao matchup like this: “If Cotto waits on Pacquaio, he’ll get beat. If Cotto takes it to him, backs him up, it’s over. He’ll whup Pacquiao’s ass.” I tend to agree with the Black Mamba.

I agree that Arreola will make a fight of it Saturday night, but I think the most likely scenario is a mid-to-late rounds stoppage loss for the gutsy challenger. However, while I agree that Klitschko’s got a great chin, one he proved in his battle with Lewis, I’d like to point out that fight took place in 2003.

Klitschko could get old over night. I’ve heard some things about his camp that make me wonder if Arreola can’t just bumrush him and break him down early. Who knows? I doubt it but it will be fun if he tries. Win or lose, I think Arreola is going to land some quality shots and eat some big bombs, which is what fans want to see.

I led with your email because I agree that everyone could use a break from the Mayweather debate. I wish I didn't write that column disagreeing with THE RING’s Mayweather ranking because it sparked new debate just as the feedback from the Marquez fight was starting to subside. So instead of getting emails on Saturday's heavyweight fight, I was hit with a ton of emails (and I’m talking like 250-plus) from fans who agree or disagree or just want to comment on my thoughts of where Floyd should be rated at welterweight or in the mythical pound-for-pound rankings.

Big f__k-up on my part because I am SOOOOOOOOO tired of writing about that little twerp. Anyway, I made it a point to place Klitschko-Arreola emails on top of the ratings feedback and I promise, after this weekend, I’m not going to be drawn into the pointless debates about what he does next or where he should be rated or how much he should be appreciated. I’m going to write about the Klitschko-Arreola aftermath, the up-coming super middleweight bouts on Showtime and subjects worth discussing.

KLITSCHKO-ARREOLA

Hey Dougie,
Hope all is good with you. I continue to enjoy your writing now that you are over at The Ring.

I’m looking forward to Saturday’s fight. As contrary to opinion I think Arreola has a decent shot at winning. Although he can be accused of being lazy and not always being in the best possible shape, I think he has a certain ‘X’ Factor which may lead him to upset the odds. What I’m getting at is his toughness and ability to deal with getting hurt and his natural ability to fight (see Travis Walker). I appreciate that Klitschko is a few classes up on the Walkers of this world but think he can do it.

When Klitschko fought Corrie Sanders a few years back, I thought he got a little buzzed and truly believe that Arreola will be like a dog with a bone and find a way to win. My prediction-Arreola-KO 10. Your thoughts?

Quick comment re Mayweather, I thought he looked good after his lay off but disappointed me because he didn’t close the show. Pac has got his hands full against Cotto but his speed and power will prove to be the difference. I thought Mosley was on the way to stopping Cotto at some points in the fight but allowed him to recover, Pac won’t! So, Mayweather-PacÔǪ let's hope.

Also looking forward to my fellow countryman David Haye fighting Valuev. I think he can do it, mainly because I don’t think much of Valuev and thought he lost to Holyfield. Haye has embarrassed his UK fans a little over the Klitschko BS but if it gets him a belt and possibly better leverage for bigger fights, who can blame him? I would’nt fancy his chances against Arreola though. Anyway, have a good weekend. — Paul Petrou

I like Arreola over Haye, but if the British Jeremy Williams beat the Missing Link I’d love to see the two bombers fight. Haye and his WBA belt would be a nice consolation prize for Arreola if he can’t get the job done against Klitschko. However, like you, I think Mexican Michelin Man can upset the odds and beat Vitali. Sanders did indeed buzz Vitali in the first round of their fight, but the South African is taller and faster than Arreola, plus a southpaw — it’s an entirely different style matchup — but I think Chris has better combinations than Sanders (and most active heavyweights).

If Pacquiao beats Cotto, a showdown with Mayweather is the fight that HBO will put it’s full muscle behind. We’ll see what happens.

KLITSCHKO RUMORS

Hey Dougie what's crackin'?
I was just writing you to tell you about the gym rumors I've heard from my homey who is a trainer. He told me that Vitali has been looking real bad during sparring sessions. He told me that he was getting his ass whooped. Have you heard anything like that. Peace out. — Jose

I’ve absolutely heard a few rumors about Klitschko’s training camp. I heard that sparring partner Lionel Butler was getting in his ass, and I heard that one of his knees is less than 100 percent, which has made it difficult for him train and spar.

However, just because Butler is giving Klitschko fits doesn’t mean Arreola can. Butler has mastered the forgotten art (among heavyweights, anyway) of bobbing-and-weaving. He’s 5-10 and he makes himself 5-6 as he gets in close and gets off to the body with both hands. I don’t think Arreola can do that. However, if Chris can tap Klitschko’s body, he can hurt the giant. I’ve seen it done to both Klitschko’s in sparring session from 2004 when both trained in L.A. (and as is the case with Butler, it wasn’t a world-beater who troubled them, it was Dominican fringe contender Fernely Feliz, who knew how to get low and get inside).

RANDOM THOUGHTS

I'll admit I was encouraged by Arreola's weigh in. He'll never be a ripped beast, but it seems like he has trained hard and will enter his title fight against 'Dr. Ironfist' in good shape. He's going to need to be to have a chance though. Being aggressive and pushing Vitali is all well and good, but I think upperbody movement will be the key for Chris. If he utilizes it effectively he could do well. If Vitali is able to check his chin with the same alarming regularity that say, Travis Walker did, then it'll be a short night…

If Arreola somehow pulls the upset, where would you rank it? It would have to be the biggest one since Lewis-Rahman or Tyson-Holyfied right?

Expect Floyd to be more insufferable than ever if these PPV numbers are legit. I thought they might be lucky to hit 500,000. The night of the fight I caught your colleague Joe Santoliquito on a Philly sports talk show I frequent and he reported that the number might reach 800,000 — which I thought at the time was simply ludacris. I'm happy from the standpoint that it crushed The UFC's buy rate (Yeah Dana White, keep explaining to us how boxing is dead!!!) but in the long run I'm not sure how good it'll be for us fans. If Floyd can keep getting the suits at HBO to give him eight figure paydays (which if these numbers are legit they'll have no motive to do otherwise), he'll never get in the ring with Mosley or Cotto. I think the payday a PacMan fight would generate for his 'Needs Money' pockets would be to tempting to avoid.

As for Shane, I can see his smear campaign against Floyd is in full effect and if it gets him the fight, then good for him. I just hope he realizes there is fine line between calling someone out and coming off as plain pathetic (like he did with Manny) he's too classy a guy to lower himself to pleading for another fight, plus Floyd isn't Roy Jones and won't be goaded into fighting anyone. If anything he'll use it as an excuse not too. — Tom G.

I fully support Mosley’s smear campaign and I’d love to hear him include boxing writers who ride Mayweather’s jock (like all the geniuses who voted him into the No. 1 spot on the Yahoo! Sports rankings). I have no problem with him calling out Mayweather because I know that he means it. He really wants to kick Floyd’s ass and there’s nothing wrong with that in my book.

F__k classy. Where has classy gotten Mosley? I want him to go old-school Pomona gansta (circa 1990-94) every time someone sticks a microphone in his face.

Never doubt my colleague Joe (unless he’s rating Mayweather as the No. 2 welterweight after Floyd beat a lightweight). I think PPV numbers will be between 800,000 and 1 million, which means everyone made money and you better believe Mayweather will be even more of a p___k to negotiate with. Bob Arum is not going to play games with Floyd and neither is Freddie Roach, so there’s a chance the big Pacquiao showdown won’t happen. Too bad. I think it would be a hell of promotion and darn good fight (thanks to the Pac-Monster). BUT, there’s always Sugar ShaneÔǪ he’s willing to take the short-end of the stick for the chance to put his foot in Floyd’s ass.

I can’t disagree with your thoughts on Klitschko-Arreola. If Chris pulls off the upset I would rank it somewhere between Brewster-Klitschko I and Rahman-Lewis I.

WHAT MAKES KLITSCHKO HARD TO BEAT?

The lack of decent opponents! — Marco

Thanks for your 2 cents, smart ass. Aside from his brother, who the hell is out there for him? This ain’t the 1970s, last time I checked the heavyweight top 10 didn’t include George Foreman, Joe Fraizer, Kenny Norton and Ron Lyles.

FLOYD AT NO. 2!?

Dougie,
Great article on The Ring ratings update. Dougie, there is something wrong here. There is no way in hell that Floyd deserves to be ranked number 2 at welterweight, and ahead of Cotto! I don't get it. Maybe the editorial board can explain it to me.

I always thought you moved up the rankings by fighting and beating the best… and that is exactly what Cotto has done. Let us take a look at Floyd's track record against welterweights… (cue the crickets). He fought an unproven Ricky Hatton at welterweight. Baldomir? Judah? Mitchell? HA! Those guys are nowhere near the level of Cotto, Williams, and Mosley.

Boxing is my favorite sport, but this is the kind of stupid sh*t that just gets under my skin.

Don't get me wrong, I feel the same about Manny. His last two wins are overrated. Cotto and Marquez have been much more impressive in terms of opponents.

To be the best, you have to beat the best. Floyd has just not done that, and I am afraid he never will. — Raymond, Huron, CA

Well, you and I see eye to eye with the exception of your thoughts on Pacquiao. I agree that David Diaz was not in his class, but he was a big underdog vs. De La Hoya and the Hatton fight was more competitive on paper than it turned out to be. Now he’s fighting Cotto, who is a step up from both Goldie and the Hitman. So, I ain’t mad at Manny. If Manny beats Cotto, I think HE deserves to be in that No. 2 welterweight spot that Mayweather now occupies.

I wouldn’t have had a problem with Mayweather being ranked No. 2 if he hadn’t bumped Cotto from that spot. In my twisted, evil, hater mind Mayweather has to beat Cotto to get his ranking. Yeah, I know, I’m crazy like that.

THE RING'S POUND-FOR-POUND LIST

Well said in your recent column on The Ring’s ratings, Doug.

I regard the Ring's P4P ratings as the be all end all, the one I look to above all others. But moves like this lowers its credibility to me. Money hasn't proved much last weekend by beating a smaller and slower opponent, and thus should be taken lightly. You said it all in the article and I hope the board takes note of it. — Glenn, Toronto

It’s just my opinion. I wasn’t trying to stick it to THE RING’s editorial board or anything like that. I simply disagreed with their rationale and wanted to explain why, which I think did (of course, now that my inbox is absolutely crammed with more Mayweather emails, I wish I hadn’t). I disagreed more the welterweight ranking than the pound-for-pound rating. I don’t take P4P lists very seriously, including my own. Those mythical ratings are WAY too subjective to even bother arguing about.

Divisional rankings, however, are another story. If a fighter is going to rise to the top of a given division I think he has to take on and beat the top dogs IN THAT WEIGHT CLASS. But, hey, that’s just me. I’m a kook. And a hater.

THE RATINGS GAME

I think they should have dropped Vazquez and/or Marquez from the list before P-Will. Those guys did irreparable harm to one another and will most likely never be the same. Especially for Vazquez who has had all kinds of eye surgeries and hasn't fought since the trilogy (maybe a club show). Currently he is not the lb-4-lb fighter, he was. So I think unseating P-Will and keeping him was not good.

I think the issue with your argument about Johnson/Dawson is that Johnson was never highly rated and is a journeyman, Mayweather was on top and many felt would have stayed on top had he not left so he solidified his position. But he actually got demoted one spot (which is fair).

For the record I definitely don't think Cotto can beat Mayweather. He would barely hit him, Cotto is too plodding for PBF. Pac would prove WAY to small, but it would be a good fight. I think Sugar Shane would be tough to beat, particularly if the Margarito version of Shane shows up, but who knows if he is still that guy? Mayweather just doesn't punch enough, if Shane gets in there aggressive (as you know he will be) and Mayweather tries to rely on defense and then have to try to pull it out could lose. But I definitely don't see any kind of stoppage. — JB

I see Mosley stopping Mayweather, perhaps in brutal fashion late in the fight. However, that’s my opinion, and I would never suddenly rank Shane as my No. 1 P4P fighter based on that belief.

I think Mayweather gets way too much credit for what boxing writers and fans THINK he can do in the ring. I know I’m completely out of my mind, but I want him to actually get in the ring and PROVE it. You might be right about Mayweather having the style and ability to school Cotto, but I’ll be damned if I rate him above Cotto until he actually beats the Boricua badass, or at least equals the man’s welterweight accomplishments. Yeah, I know. I’m insane. I need to be committed.

I see your point about my Johnson-Dawson analogy, so let me modify it for you. Let’s say Vitali Klitschko, who retired as the RING’s heavyweight champ, un-retired against Chad Dawson instead of Sam Peter. If he smacked around the smaller man for however many rounds the ref or Dawson’s corner would allow him to, where would reinstate him in your heavyweight rankings? Would you stick him all the way up to No. 1 or No. 2? I wouldn’t. Vitali didn’t beat a ranked heavyweight. He didn’t beat a heavyweight, period. So why would I rank him? It doesn’t matter how talented Dawson is or how accomplished the young man is at light heavyweight. He’s never even fought at cruiserweight.

I know, I know. I’m a nut job. But I agree with you that both Izzy Vazquez and Rafa Marquez should be dropped from the RING’s P4P ratings for inactivity. It would make room for P-Will and Dawson.

PBF RATINGS

Hello Doug,
After reading the article on FMJ's placement in the ring's rating, I am curious as to where you stand on the Cotto vs Pacquiao fight? Since stopping Diaz at lightweight, The Pacman has only faught twice above that weight and as you have given FMJ little credit for winning this fight due to weight issue's I wonder if on that same reasoning you think Cotto will crush the Pacman? It seems to me a lot of the same people saying Floyd's win over the #2 P4p fighter after a 2 year lay off was a mismatch for size reasons also think Pacquiao is a comfortable favorite over Cotto. Floyd was right in an interview I saw when he said he couldn't win.

As for your Chad Dawson and Kevin Johnson (I don't know who Johnson is, another failing American Heavyweight? ) comparison, Johnson unless I've missed something pretty major never has been p4p no. 1, HW no. 1 and not only that temporarily retired while he was still at the top. Which is no doubt why FMJ shot up the rankings and Johnson wouldn't.

I enjoy debating p4p listings because everybody has their 2 cents to add, but I do find it strange how American fight fans fail to get behind FMJ and wonder who he has to beat to really get their attention. I keep hearing Margarito but personally think he is waaaay overrated on the basis of a very dubious win against a very good fighter. Mosley and Williams other than Pacquiao/Cotto winner I think would be good fights, but still wonder if FMJ would get his respect after beating these 3. — Alex Fowler

Oh come on, you know damn well he would get respect if he beat Shane Mosley or Paul Williams or the Cotto-Pacquiao winner. Stop being silly. Regarding Margarito, you can talk that “overrated” bulls__t all you want. He's a real fighter. Or at least he was. The man may have been deported in shame after his hand wraps scandal but he got in the ring with Kermit Cintron (twice), Josh Clottey, Williams, Cotto and Mosley (add up the records of these dudes at the time they fought Margarito if you dare). He didn't win all of those bouts and he didn't always look good, but guess what, neither would Mayweather if he fought all those killers.

Maybe American fight fans are smarter than British fight fans.

I guess if Vitali Klitschko had fought and defeated Chad Dawson instead Sam Peter in his first comeback fight you would asked for THE RING to give him back his old heavyweight title. Good for you!

OK. Here’s what smart American fight fans understand about the Mayweather-Marquez and Cotto-Pacquiao matchups that you don’t:

Marquez was proven at lightweight, not at junior welterweight or welterweight. Prior to the Mayweather bout, he had never fought above 135 pounds.

After Pacquiao beat Diaz at lightweight, he fought De La Hoya at WELTERWEIGHT and kicked add. Then he fought Hatton at JUNIOR WELTERWEIGHT and kicked ass. So, he’s not viewed as a blown-up junior lightweight or lightweight because he’s shown that he can be just as fast, powerful and effective when he weighs in at 142 (as he did for De La Hoya) or 138 pounds (as he did for Hatton). That’s why smart American fans don’t view the Nov. 14 fight as a mismatch in favor of the naturally bigger man.

Try to wrap you head around that. I know it’s so hard, and I know I’m a hater, but try. Please.

YOUR RATINGS BLOG

You were missed on Sat nite my friend. We were a little melancholy for a while, but we drank till we felt better. And the cigars were first rate!

I was pleasantly surprised to read your blog this morning visa vis Pink's placement in the Welterweight rankings. Actually, I wasn't surprised at all. You've consistently written the good fight against boxers who use above average hype to conceal below average competition. I couldn't agree more. Floyd's taking boxing fans on Mr. Jones Wild Ride. Hell, I got sick the first time I took that ride, and don't care for a repeat performance. Boxing fans, and writers, who fall for Floyd’s smoke and mirrors mirage, have no one to blame but themselves when they are forced to defend Pink's “Flight of the Bumblebee” routine to the casual fan. — Kirk

I didn’t fall for Roy’s “all-time great” charade and I’m not falling for Floyd’s “smoke and mirrors”. I know my stubbornness makes me a “crazy hater” in some circles but I really don’t care.

Sorry I missed the cigars last Saturday. If Golden Boy does this San Jose card on Dec. 12 that they’ve talking about I’ll be there and I’ll be good for at least two stogies.

GOOD COLUMN

As you defended Cotto, I must admit, names like Sosa ran through my head as you were talking about Cotto fighting real welters. Arum had him fighting 135 lbers when he was at jr welter and 140 lbers when he moved to welter. his last 2 years though, no one can argue.

Don't go overboard and get less space by upsetting Nigel Hey, any debate of the Ring Rankings is a positive one right?

If cotto/pacman's ring is a skating rink I am going to be upset with Bob.

Chris John/Rocky Juarez РWhich fight was Glenn Hamada watching?? Please tell me he is not from Texas

Is Cornelius Lock's KO of Cruz the biggest (Non-Mayweather) victory in Mayweather Promotions history???

I have a business trip in San Jose. I can go anytime. What are the odds Guererro fights there before the year is over? — Chris

Golden Boy was hoping to put Guerrero in with a fellow 130-pound titleholder in the main event of a Dec. 12 show in San Jose but I tlaked to Robert’s publicist Mario Serrano last night (after the Fight Night Club show) and he told me that The Ghost has a badly bruised knuckle on one of his hands that may take a while to heal and will keep him out of the gym. So I’m not sure if we’ll see Guerrero before the year is out, but I hope so. Maybe he heals fast. We’ll see.

I’m happy for Lock. I’d say his win was the biggest non-Mayweather victory for Mayweather Promotions if that company actually existed.

I thought John won 10 rounds against Juarez, the first 10. Rocky took rounds 11 and 12. Too bad for Juarez that the true “championship rounds” of 13, 14,and 15 are no longer part of boxing.

Bob, pull a fast one on Cotto? Nooooooo.never happen!

I don’t think I pissed THE Ring editorial board off; not too much anyway.

OK, Sosa was a 135 pounder that Cotto fought at 140 pounds, but wasn’t he still a prospect when he fought Sosa? And how many other 135 pounders did Cotto fight once he established himself at 140 pounds (after he won a title)? I recall him fighting plenty of full-bodied 140 pounders, even before he demolished Kelson Pinto for his WBO belt, strong and powerful dudes like Lovemore Ndou and Randall Bailey. Cotto took on undefeated Carlos Quintana in his first welterweight bout. ‘Nuff said. He’s a stud. I’ll never understand fans who diss Cotto. Never.

Of course, I might be a taco short of a combination platter.

Dougie can be reached at [email protected]

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