HYPED FOR THURMAN-GARCIA

Dear Dougie,

I am seriously psyched up for Keith Thurman-Danny Garcia this weekend. Say what you will about Al Haymon and the PBC but this is a high caliber fight on regular TV—–well done and about time. I am hoping for a Thurman win. The reason being; I like his boxing style, he is a classy guy with a good sense of humor and I absolutely detest that racist fool Angel Garcia.

Who are you picking to win? Do you think Thurman’s superior movement skills will be the difference? How do you think they compare in terms of power?

Given their styles and each man’s determination I am expecting an exciting competitive fight and a unanimous points win for Thurman.

All the best to you, I’m not whining or complaining in this particular email. – Aaron, Miami

There’s not much to whine or complain about the big fight (in the U.S.) on Saturday. It’s a clash of undefeated, top-ranked welterweight titleholders who are in their athletic primes.

I’m expecting a competitive fight that’s exciting and dramatic in spots. Both Thurman and Garcia tend to let their hands go in powerful bursts. They’re not high-volume punchers. They don’t work non-stop for three minutes of every round, and they’re not known for their pressure. They like to take their time and pick their spots to let their heavy hands go. So while I believe that we are in for a compelling matchup, I think the fireworks will be spaced out throughout the fight.

I am hoping for a Thurman win. The reason being; I like his boxing style, he is a classy guy with a good sense of humor and I absolutely detest that racist fool Angel Garcia. You’re not alone in this opinion, and I’m right there with you. I’m tired of Angel Garcia’s ghetto-loose-cannon act, and it’s no secret that I’m a fan of the Thurmanator. (I like his boxing style, his personality, and, as you noted, his class. He’s handled Angel Garcia’s bulls__t very well throughout the buildup to tomorrow’s fight. Keith has taken the High Road, as Coach Schwartz says, and that ain’t easy in boxing.)

Who are you picking to win? Thurman on points.

Do you think Thurman’s superior movement skills will be the difference? Yes, I do; coupled with his speed, athleticism and power.

How do you think they compare in terms of power? I think Thurman has the edge, but I don’t know if he can catch as well as Garcia.

WISH FOR THE WEEKEND

Hey Dougie,

Here’s hoping that Thurman and Garcia both come to win on Saturday and don’t try to play it safe. Easier asked then done, but this one is a potential barn burner.

A boxing fan can hope … – Toomey

Keep hope alive, as my man Jesse Jackson used to say. I think the stakes and emotion for this fight is too high for these 28-year-old boxer-punchers to half-ass it.

Thurman vs. Shawn Porter drew an average of 3.1 million viewers on CBS last June. Garcia vs. Robert Guerrero did 2.25 million average on FOX last January. The potential is there for Saturday’s showdown on CBS to exceed 4 million viewers, maybe even 5 million. It would be a shame if the casual fans who tune in aren’t treated to something special.

HOPING HAYE AND THE GARCIAS GET HUMBLED

Hi Dougie,

It’s been a while since I have written in and made the cut but been reading every Monday and Friday – thanks for your hard graft and banging out the Mailbags twice a week!

As per usual, I’m getting suckered into the hype and pre-fight build up to the David Haye V Tony Bellew fight. I thought it was a mismatch when it was made and still do, but the intrigue is growing as the fight nears. Appreciating it was at light-heavyweight and the weight didn’t suit Bellew, if Adonis Stevenson can knock him out I just can’t see how Haye isn’t going to catch him and do the same. With his un-classy talk leading up to the fight, I hope Haye gets humbled but I just don’t see it happening. I never thought I’d want to see Bellew beat Haye but I just find Haye so disrespectful. Maybe it is to build up the fight and get people like me to buy the fight! But I still don’t like it. How do you see the fight going? I say Haye wins in rounds 3-5.

I’m also excited to see Thurman V Garcia this weekend. It is exactly the type of fight we wanted to see and will hopefully prove how good these guys really are. I’m hoping for fireworks at some point in the fight and hope that Thurman humbles both Danny and his moron father Angel. I’m not sure of a prediction for this one, but how do you see it playing out Dougie? Can you think of any other examples of somebody in a fighter’s camp (other than the fighter himself) causing so many people willing to see that fighter lose (corner men, trainers, etc.)? I remember Carl Froch’s brother (who was also in his corner on fight nights) getting way too involved in the build up to one of the George Groves fights and it led me to hoping Froch lost!

Keep up the great work mate. – CJ, UK

Thanks for the kind words CJ. The corners and teammates of most pro boxers are humble and classy, but there’s always been an insufferable loudmouth or street thug (or wanna-be street thug) or degenerate cretin here and there among fighter camps and families.

Google Norman Stone, the manager/co-trainer of former two-time WBA heavyweight titleholder John Ruiz. The Somerville (Mass.) Loudmouth is one boxing’s great and polarizing characters of the past 20-25 years. I liked him and used to enjoy interviewing him, but he rubbed a lot of fans and industry people the wrong way. He had a massive chip on his shoulder (he couldn’t stand HBO’s commentators and much of the media) and would literally take a bullet for his fighter, not unlike Angel Garcia, but he didn’t spew as much racist s__t as Angel. Anyway, most fans were sour on The Quietman’s awkward “clutchy” style to begin with, but with The Loudmouth in his corner, he was the Puerto Rican-American fans loved to hate.

Shane Mosley has, for the most part, enjoyed a charmed relationship with fans and media, but his ex-wife Jin Mosley turned a lot of Sugar Heads and boxing writers against him when they were together. Mrs. Personality she was not.

There are even some celebrated and beloved trainers, such Lou Duva and Freddie Roach, who irk some fans enough for them to root against their fighters. Roach, as I’m sure you’re aware, can talk some s__t, and Duva was infamous for going off on wild tirades and in-the-ring rampages in support of his fighters.

I was never aware of Carl Froch’s brother. I guess the producers involved with his U.S. fights were good about cutting him out of those broadcasts. I remember Thomas Hearns had a rather mouthy younger brother named Billy, who had a brief pro career and was part of the Hitman Entourage. He would talk s__t to Hearns’ opponents like he was the one who was gonna be kicking ass in the ring. I recall him rubbing some fans the wrong way. (I also recall one of Hearns’ other younger brothers, Henry, shooting and killing his girlfriend at Hearns’ house just before Tommy’s rematch with Sugar Ray Leonard – Hearns was away in camp at the time of the shooting and Henry was convicted of murder and sentenced to 25-50 years in case you’re wondering.)

Who knows? Maybe Deontay Wilder’s younger brother – the alleged instigator of that hotel melee with Dominic Breazeale’s family and team – will become “that guy” that fans hate so much that they root against The Bronze Bomber.

Regarding how I see Thurman-Garcia playing out, I think Keith will land the harder shots in a tit-for-tat distance fight and win a close but clear decision. I see Garcia’s face getting marked up and Thurman suffering some facial swelling of his own by the late rounds.

As per usual, I’m getting suckered into the hype and pre-fight build up to the David Haye V Tony Bellew fight. Dude, I can’t be mad at you for that. I watched a video of the final press conference, as well as some other iFL TV clips and interviews with Haye and Bellew, and I couldn’t help but be amused and entertained. I’m looking forward to the fight, and I’m giving Bellew a shot. Why? I have no idea! I just liked what he and his trainer David Coldwell have had to say in the buildup to this bizarre circus of an event. British boxers and trainers can f__king TALK. Nobody gives interviews like the UK boxing folk. This one that Kugan Cassius did with Haye after the presser was great.

They’re thoughtful and articulate with just the right amount of attitude and trash talk. And when they get pissed off, look out! It works for me, and the players involved in Bellew-Haye are experts at hyping-up a matchup and a show.

I thought it was a mismatch when it was made and still do, but the intrigue is growing as the fight nears. That’s boxing for ya. That’s also a sign that you’re hardcore fan.

Appreciating it was at light-heavyweight and the weight didn’t suit Bellew, if Adonis Stevenson can knock him out I just can’t see how Haye isn’t going to catch him and do the same. Yeah, but maybe Bellew was weight-drained against Stevens. Perhaps being able to fight without his customary weight-cutting (I assume he has to work hard to even make the 200-pound cruiserweight limit) will give him better legs and punch resistance than he had at the lighter weight classes.

With his un-classy talk leading up to the fight, I hope Haye gets humbled but I just don’t see it happening. But you hope to see it enough to pay to watch the Sky Sports Box Office event live, right?

I never thought I’d want to see Bellew beat Haye but I just find Haye so disrespectful. Maybe it is to build up the fight and get people like me to buy the fight! Gee, ya think?

But I still don’t like it. What’s not to like (other than having to pay to watch it)? It’s a legit grudge match and it should be wild while it lasts.

How do you see the fight going? I say Haye wins in rounds 3-5. I favor Haye, but if doesn’t clip Bellew early I think he’s going to have a real fight on his hands. I’m going to give Bellew the benefit of the doubt and predict that he hangs tough and makes a fight of it. Haye by decision.

GARCIA-THURMAN PICK

Hey Dougie,

I’ll be brief: I love this matchup. I like Thurman a lot as a person but think Danny is more fundamentally sound. I believe he’ll stalk him and stop him inside the limit using precision power punching.

Thanks Doug enjoy the fights. (P.S. Hate Garcia Sr also…) – Juan Valverde

Hmmm, I don’t see Garcia having that-much better fundamentals than Thurman. His feet are a little more solid on the canvas (especially when punching) than Thurman’s but he doesn’t move as well as Keith. Both guys swing a little wide and leave their chins exposed.

I don’t know, man, I just don’t see Garcia stalking Thurman effectively. He’s not a pressure fighter by nature and he’s not an expert at cutting off the ring. He’s got that Canelo attitude where he doesn’t feel like he has to go chasing after a stick-and-moving opponent. Check out the Lamont Peterson fight. And also check out Thurman’s fight with Porter. Thurman did a decent job of controlling distance (for the most part) against Porter, who goes after opponents a lot harder than Garcia does. But even when Porter was able to get Thurman against the ropes, he couldn’t break the Florida native down with his busy infighting and mauling.

And Thurman landed some of his hardest shots against Porter while his back was against the ropes.

THURMAN-GARCIA ANALYSIS

Hi Dougie,

Long-time reader, first-time writer. As the weekend approaches, I’m getting pretty pumped for Keith Thurman vs. Danny Garcia. When I first read about this match-up, I saw it as a logical choice of opponent for both fighters but an obvious Thurman win. The more I think about it, though, the more I think this one could get interesting.

I see “One Time” deserving the edge due to his size and experience at 147, plus superior movement, dangerous power in both hands, and the impressive heart he displayed in his fun grind-out victory over Porter. I think Thurman’s deeper toolbox gives him more avenues to victory, for sure.

That said, Garcia’s quick, sharp left hook is a potentially fight-changing weapon. As long as he doesn’t relegate himself mentally to having only a “puncher’s chance” and finds a way to make the hook a factor early, then forces and dominates close-range exchanges down the stretch, I think we could have a barnburner on our hands. Garcia remains an unproven quantity at 147, and therefore the underdog, but he’s still a dog with one hell of bite. The fact that he chose to fight Thurman says he’s hungry to prove himself a top welter, and I can see that attitude combining with his skillset for an entertaining, possibly even dramatic, fight, and an admirable Garcia performance in victory or defeat.

I think the greatest likelihood is Thurman maneuvers through some heavy artillery and busts Garcia up enough from outside to win a clear decision or late stoppage in a compelling fight, but I won’t be shocked if Garcia fights cagey enough to pulls off the upset. No matter what happens, it’s two undefeated, top-10, heavy-handed titleholders facing one another in their prime (and on free TV, no less.)

How do you see this one playing out? Do you think the winner will fight the Spence-Brook winner next or aim for a huge payday against the Pacman-Khan winner first?

Keep up the great work, I can usually count on the mailbag for a laugh or two and I always learn something while I’m at it.

Here’s hoping the rest of 2017 shapes up as strong as this spring! – Ty, Durham, NC

I don’t know why it wouldn’t be, Ty. Good fights usually set-up even better matchups, and we’ve got some darn good ones on deck that happen to take place in deep and/or competitive divisions.

Regarding the competitiveness of Thurman-Garcia matchup, I agree that it is a close and interesting fight (on paper). Thurman’s got the edge in size, athleticism and versatility, but Garcia brings championship experience garnered from fighting higher quality of opposition (former-elite veterans like Erik Morales and Zab Judah, talented boxer-punchers like Amir Khan and Kendall Holt, and card-carrying badasses like Lucas Matthysse and Peterson).

I think Thurman’s deeper toolbox gives him more avenues to victory, for sure. I think his lateral movement will trouble Garcia, but he will have to plant his feet to land effective power punches and Garcia is very good and countering an attacking opponent. Having said that, Thurman will be just as dangerous during exchanges as Garcia will be.

That said, Garcia’s quick, sharp left hook is a potentially fight-changing weapon. Yep, potentially. Although, as you noted, Thurman took the best power shots that Porter had to offer and “Showtime” Shawn ain’t one to pitter-pat in the ring. Thurman’s chin/legs/recuperative ability have also held up against a then-undefeated Diego Chaves and my favorite gatekeeper Jesus Soto Karass, both of whom can crack.

As long as he doesn’t relegate himself mentally to having only a “puncher’s chance” and finds a way to make the hook a factor early, then forces and dominates close-range exchanges down the stretch, I think we could have a barnburner on our hands. I don’t know if it will be a barnburner but it should be competitive, and Garcia is not one to relegate himself to a single key to victory. He doesn’t whatever he can, whatever it takes to win.

Garcia remains an unproven quantity at 147, and therefore the underdog, but he’s still a dog with one hell of bite. Yeah, but he hasn’t been in the ring with a dog who can bite back since he fought Matthysse in September 2013.

I think the greatest likelihood is Thurman maneuvers through some heavy artillery and busts Garcia up enough from outside to win a clear decision or late stoppage in a compelling fight, but I won’t be shocked if Garcia fights cagey enough to pull off the upset. Me neither.

No matter what happens, it’s two undefeated, top-10, heavy-handed titleholders facing one another in their prime (and on free TV, no less.) Fact. May the better man on Saturday night win.

How do you see this one playing out? Much like you do, only I don’t see a potential stoppage and I’ve got a little more confidence in Thurman than you do.

Do you think the winner will fight the Spence-Brook winner next or aim for a huge payday against the Pacman-Khan winner first? Probably the Spence-Brook winner, especially if Spence wins in May. If Brook beats Spence, I see him (and promoter Eddie Hearn) making a strong bid to take on the Pacquiao-Khan winner.

HAYE-BELLEW CIRCUS

I don’t know if you’ve caught much of the build up to this fight but if the actual fight is half as entertaining as the press conferences and preview shows ect. then we should be in for a treat! Bellew has been his usual bombastic self however Haye seems to have completely lost his s__t – throwing punches, making vile threats (which I won’t repeat), shouting and swearing at Bellew’s fans. Haye says that he’s not bothered by Bellew but it does seem that “the bomber” has got under Hayes skin.

Having said that I’m struggling to see a way that Bellew can win. He can’t out box Haye and I don’t think he has the power at HW to take Haye out. Most importantly Bellew simply doesn’t have the defence to avoid those fast, fight ending shots of Haye. Bellew has stated that is it goes past 4 rounds it’s his fight because he thinks Haye has stamina issues and lacks guts but I’m not sure it will last that long.

Also, what do you think of this type of pre-fight aggravation and hype? I usually enjoy a feisty build up to a big fight but whether you believe it’s staged or not there is a line and Haye has clearly crossed it, especially with the threats he was making. I’m not sure it’s good for boxing. – Mark

Vulgar, violent and ill-spirited build-ups to fights that appear to be money grabs don’t make the sport the look good to potential fans (and certainly not to critics), but that kind of hype whips the diehard supporters of the fighters in action into a frenzy and usually attracts the interest of hardcore fans that had pooh-poohed the bout when it was first announced. I think we have that situation with Haye-Bellew. It’s great that Bellew’s fans are behind him, and that a major venue like the O2 Arena in London will be packed with crazy boxing fans tomorrow, but it’s too bad that the fighters (mainly Haye in the case) come off as crazy to the general public. It is what it is.

For the record, I think Bellew does get under Haye’s skin a bit, but I don’t think the former heavyweight beltholder has “complete lost his s__t.” He knows exactly what he’s doing, as so does Bellew and Hearn. They are selling an event, and I think they are doing a good job. We have a legit title-unification bout between two of the best young welterweights in the sport tomorrow here in the U.S., but Haye-Bellew has made enough noise to attract the attention of American hardcore fans. All I have to say about that is, well done Matchroom Boxing, Hayemaker Promotions and Sky Sports.

I’m struggling to see a way that Bellew can win. I know, but I’m guessing that you’re willing to pony up £16.95-€21.95 to see if can.

He can’t out box Haye and I don’t think he has the power at HW to take Haye out. Maybe his plan is to outwork, outland and outlast Haye, not to outbox or bomb out the bigger man.

Most importantly Bellew simply doesn’t have the defence to avoid those fast, fight ending shots of Haye. We’ll see. I don’t think Bellew is as crude or one-dimensional as a lot of fans seem to believe.

Bellew has stated that if it goes past 4 rounds it’s his fight because he thinks Haye has stamina issues and lacks guts but I’m not sure it will last that long. If he Bellew can stay in there past four rounds – and I admit that it’s a big “if” – I think stamina and quality activity (two categories where Bellew has the edge) will become a factor. Haye hasn’t fought past five rounds since his decision loss to Wladimir Klitschko in 2011.

BATTLE OF THE LIAMS

Hi Dougie,

I hope you and the family are well. Loving the column as always.

I was wondering if the battle of the Liams, Liam Smith vs Liam Williams was on your radar? They’re fighting in April and I think it’s got the potential to be a goodun. It seems Liam Smith is marginal favourite with the bookies. How do you judge it?

I’m really excited for the Haye v Bellew fight. It seems to be seen as a mismatch by most commentators but I think if Bellew can stay in there past 6 it could get messy for Haye. Some people seem to get really hung up on apparent “mismatches” and are criticising Hearn for making this fight PPV – a fight between an ex cruiserweight & heavy weight world champ and a current cruiserweight world champ. The way I see it is we get two of the biggest names in British boxing with very different styles and skill sets coming together with what seems like a fair bit of spite thrown in! Loads of people seem to be saying “Oh Haye will take him out, he’s too big and powerful, too skilful, too fast. Bellew hasn’t got a chance unless he can make it a dog fight”. Does that make it a mismatch? There are loads of instances you could say exactly the same about a fight between two legit players in the same weight class. Hell, Froch had a hugely successful career by out scrapping fighters who were probably more technically gifted or faster than him.

That being said, I put my money on Haye by KO within 4! Do you think it’s a big old mismatch con to line the pockets of the main protagonists, or do you think this is a genuine, live contest?

MM:

Oleksander Usyk vs prime cruiserweight David Haye (‘07-‘08)

Keep up the good work Dougie! – Peter, London

I’m gonna go with Usyk on points, Peter. Thanks for the mythical matchup and the kind words.

Regarding the legitimacy of Haye-Bellew, I think it’s an interesting matchup with a clear favorite (Haye) for obvious reasons, and it also no secret that the parties involved wanted to make the fight because it had the potential to do strong business, but I have no problem with the fight being made. For starters, as you noted, it matches up two big UK names who happen to be very good (trash) talkers and are natural showmen – so we knew that it would create a media buzz and sell tickets (and likely PPV buys). Second, there’s no reason to bellyache about the fight. It’s not like it’s preventing us from seeing any legit cruiserweight or heavyweight matchup. Third, the same “know-it-alls” that call it a mismatch would probably give Bellew ZERO chance against fellow titleholder Usyk, and would likely consider him an underdog against any of the other cruiserweight beltholders and standouts. So he might as well make as much money as possible, right? Why should Bellew concern himself with a bunch of a__hole social media complainers who don’t think he can beat any talented fighter in any division?

I was wondering if the battle of the Liams, Liam Smith vs Liam Williams was on your radar? Yes it is, as is the WBO lightweight title bout between Terry Flanagan and Peter Petrov that is on that same show in Manchester.

They’re fighting in April and I think it’s got the potential to be a goodun. Me too.

It seems Liam Smith is marginal favourite with the bookies. How do you judge it? I see it as a toss-up fight. They’re both mentally/physically strong technicians who apply smart pressure that usually breaks down their opposition. Smith is more experienced/battle tested, but Williams (in my opinion) has more natural talent and is the more fluid athlete/puncher. I like the Welshman’s punch variation and footwork.

GOTTA LOVE BRITISH FANS

Hey Doug,
Hope you’re well mate.

Just thought I’d send this Haye-Bellew press conference your way.

Another reminder of why British fans are the best in the world!

On a side note, I was telling a friend at work that David Haye is arguably the best finisher in boxing. By that I mean putting guys away as soon as he gets a whiff that they’re hurt. I know there are plenty of KO artists, GGG Kov, etc. But I think Haye has the killer instinct more than most. Would you agree? Who would be your No.1?

Anyways I hope you enjoy the fights this weekend! Cheers. – Brinsley, St. Albans, UK

Thanks for sending me this video. I thoroughly enjoyed it. Those Bellew fans had me crackin’ up every time they sang that “Who the f__k are you?” song. Somebody should have told Ohara Davies to keep it short and respectful. There was no sense in trying to talk over those guys or to bother trying to get into Derry Mathews’ head. He made himself look like a dweeb. I thought Haye did a better job battling them and jawing at Bellew, but The Bomber is the best at commanding a microphone, especially when he’s fired up. We’ll see how well he commands the ring tomorrow.

Anyway, I believe you’re right about British fans being the best in the world. I was thinking about this the other day, not long after around 5,000 fans braved L.A. Friday rush-hour traffic to attend the final leg of the Canelo-Chavez Jr. press tour. I thought to myself that the most diehard boxing lovers are either the Mexican or UK fans. Both support the fighters of their country and local regions within the country. Both have no problem getting s__faced and partying or acting crazy at a fight. Both are very knowledgeable about the sport. (Puerto Rican fans are right there with them, by the way, but there are just way more UK and Mexican fans.)

However, I think the edge has to go to the Brits because, A) they somehow manage to drink more than Mexican fans (which is impressive, and downright scary), B) they sing more songs during the fights, and C) they not only follow and root for their own fighters, they’re way into the fighters from other countries. British fans are loyal to their own but they like fighters of all background AND of all styles. It’s not easy to find Mexican fans who get into the overly defensive or neutralizing-type boxing styles, but UK fans love them some Rigondeaux. They dig Ward. Hell, they welcomed Paulie Malgnaggi with open arms (as both fighter and commentator). They dig the blood-and-guts action fighters and the bona-fide stinkers. God Bless ‘em!   

David Haye is arguably the best finisher in boxing. By that I mean putting guys away as soon as he gets a whiff that they’re hurt. I know there are plenty of KO artists, GGG, Kov, etc. But I think Haye has the killer instinct more than most. Would you agree? Haye’s up there. Deontay Wilder’s got it, too. AJ ain’t bad in that regard either. Below the heavyweight division, I’d say Terence Crawford is usually good at putting away a hurt opponent, Joe Smith Jr. is earning a reputation as a firm finisher, Canelo can go for the kill when he’s pressed hard enough, Jermall Charlo showed some evil intentions during his KO of Jullian Williams, and Takashi Miura certainly doesn’t f__k around. WBC/RING bantamweight champ Shinsuke Yamanaka is also pretty good at downing a scrambled challenger. Jarrett Hurd is worth watching. He could develop into a world-class finisher.

Who would be your No.1? I don’t think there is a No. 1 right now. There’s no Mike Tyson/Thomas Hearns/Julian Jackson/Nigel Benn-type puncher/finisher out there at the moment.

Email Fischer at [email protected]. Follow him on Twitter at @dougiefischer