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Dougie’s Friday mailbag

Fighters Network
29
Apr

Mailbag reader ??? believes that James DeGale (left), pictured with Rogilio Medina, is the only active fighter that can beat Gennady Golovkin. Photo by Esther Lin / Showtime

One mailbag reader believes that James DeGale (left), pictured with Rogilio Medina, is the only active fighter that can beat Gennady Golovkin. Photo by Esther Lin / Showtime

DEGALE THE DANCER, GGG THE PUNCHER

Hi Dougie,



Hope all is well. To answer the Monday mailbag question you asked concerning this year’s match ups, I’m looking forward to two: Viktor Postol/Terence Crawford and Deontay Wilder/Alexander Povetkin.

Now I wanted to continue my thoughts on Gennady Golovkin being the hardest puncher in middleweight history. We’re both GenXers, grew up on the same fighters, and I argue that there has never been a harder hitting middleweight not only in our lifetimes but perhaps at any time!

Dougie, I’ve see enough boxing matches to last three lifetimes and you’ve seen even more. I’ve racked my brain and pondered middleweight greats of the past and this is how I see their fights with GGG. First, Good Boy KillahGGG knocks out Roy Jones at middleweight after Roy realizes his power pot shots have no effect on Golovkin while GGG traps Roy in the corner and knocks him out with a left hook followed by a right hand somewhere in the 8th round. Remember, Roy never got hit much at middle, super, or light heavyweight until he faced Tarver. But GGG would get to Roy, it might take some rounds but as soon as Gennady unleashes and lands his power shots on Roy’s chin, it’s over. GGG finishes what Tommy Hearns couldn’t and with brutal efficiency stops Hagler in five. Monzon’s furious jab has no effect, and the Argentine’s height and reach advantage makes no difference, Monzon goes down for the count in round 10. GGG knocks out Joey Giardello, Dick Tiger, Gene Fullmer in six, Carmen Basilio in four, Tony Zale in seven, and TKO’s LaMotta in the 8th. Only two middleweights survive GGG’s thrashing in a unanimous decision loss: Bernard Hopkins (cause of his granite chin, though he definitely gets dropped), and in my opinion the greatest p4p fighter ever Sugar Ray Robinson manages to survive after furious exchanges in which the great SRR is dropped numerous times.

There were only two middleweight greats that might be able to defeat him: Harry Greb and Stanley Ketchel. Greb, “the human windmill” threw upwards of a 100 punches a round and might be strong enough to wear GGG down in a points victory. Ketchel had insane power and the stamina to go with it and I could see him rocking GGG with head and body shots while receiving severe punishment in return, but Ketchel wins a split decision that goes the distance. But these two fights are only dreamy speculation.

Photo by Al Bello/Getty Images

Photo by Al Bello/Getty Images

We have a monster in the middleweight division. Don’t be fooled by GGG’s easy smile and boyish good looks, he is an annihilator inside the ring, a pure predator who has been wreaking havoc on weaker opponents for the past three years with no end in sight. He makes for the perfect villain. Is GGG a great boxer? Yes. Is he a power punching machine? Yes. Is he great for the middleweight division? Yes. Must he be stopped? Yes. And who stops villains inside the boxing ring? Well, talented heroes, Dougie.

And what boxing hero am I thinking of? James Degale. Now GGG will have to travel eight lbs north to super middleweight sometime next year after Degale becomes the undisputed 168 champ of the world, which I believe he will. What a fight this could be. Degale, unlike his contemporaries, is a near flawless performer who can dance around the ring, without running away, creating odd angles to hit his opponents with and making you miss before anyone knows what just happened. His transitions from offense to defense are seamless and he can easily play the matador to GGG’s bullish tactics. For his size, Degale has the quickest foot and leg movement I’ve seen, and unlike the Cubans he doesn’t depend on fighting off the back foot. James Degale, is affable, accessible, has a winning smile and a likable, cocky but not arrogant attitude to boot. “Chunky” can make GGG miss, send Golovkin into a dizzy haze with his lightening fast foot movement, and pound him with his own lethal combinations in a 12 round unanimous decision win.

GGG/Degale at Wembly Stadium would be a sellout crowd because the British fans are some of the most hardcore boxing fans in the world, they have a plethora of world champions in various divisions right now, and this fight would make for a great pay-per-view event. And, quite frankly Dougie, Degale’s the only boxing hero on the planet who stands a chance against the Kazakstani killer. Regards. – Erik

Let me get this straight, you think Golovkin would’ve issued brutal defeats to every great middleweight in history (except for Greb and Ketchel), you think he had the power to stop Monzon and Hagler, but you believe that DeGale would not only last the distance with him, but befuddle him en route to a unanimous decision.

Hey man, you have a right to your opinions, and mythical matchups are meant to be silly fun, but you’re totally CRAZY!

I agree that DeGale-Golovkin could be a huge fight/event in England (though I’m not sure that it would definitely sellout Wembley Stadium as Froch-Groves II did), but before we start beating the drums for that showdown, let’s allow “Chunky” to take care of biz against “Porky” tomorrow night and then see if the 2008 Olympic gold medalist can partially unify his division against the winner of the Badou Jack-Lucian Bute fight. If DeGale can do that, he’ll not only hold both IBF and WBC 168-pound belts, he’ll be THE RING super middleweight champion (he won’t be the “undisputed champ” that you think he can be unless he also beats Gilberto Ramirez and Felix Sturm), and probably gain even more support in the UK (as well as the U.S.). In short, he’ll become an even more attractive opponent for Golovkin. (And, hopefully, by that time GGG will have most, if not all, the 160-pound titles.)

Degale, unlike his contemporaries, is a near flawless performer who can dance around the ring, without running away, creating odd angles to hit his opponents with and making you miss before anyone knows what just happened. I think DeGale is a versatile and somewhat unorthodox boxer with a lot of athleticism and underrated ring generalship, but I don’t view him as “flawless” or all that difficult to hit (he’s not a 6-foot super middle version of Pernell Whitaker).

His transitions from offense to defense are seamless and he can easily play the matador to GGG’s bullish tactics. I think he could play matador for a few rounds, maybe even half a fight, but not 12 rounds, and I don’t think his offense-to-defense transitions are all that “seamless.”

For his size, Degale has the quickest foot and leg movement I’ve seenÔǪ Oh come on, man, his feet aren’t even as fast as Michael Nunn’s, let alone a mobile speed demon like RJJ.

James Degale, is affable, accessible, has a winning smile and a likable, cocky but not arrogant attitude to boot. This, I can agree with (but that just might be my Mulatto Pride talking).

We have a monster in the middleweight division. Agreed.

Don’t be fooled by GGG’s easy smile and boyish good looks, he is an annihilator inside the ring, a pure predator who has been wreaking havoc on weaker opponents for the past three years with no end in sight. Hey, I’m not ashamed to admit that I’ve always been a fool for an easy smile and boyish good looks. I’m mere putty in GGG’s manly hands. (Don’t judge, so was Dominic Wade.)

He makes for the perfect villain. What? Only if you’re a diehard Andre Ward fan, or somebody who proudly wears TMT gear, or a good ole-fashioned racist.

Is GGG a great boxer? He’s very good, and very efficient.

Is he a power punching machine? No, machines break down. GGG doesn’t break down. HE BREAKS MOTHER F__KERS DOWN!

Is he great for the middleweight division? Naturally, and for boxing.

Must he be stopped? Dude, he’s a prize fighter, not a terrorist.

And who stops villains inside the boxing ring? Well, talented heroes, Dougie. Did I ever mention that before anyone in the Southern California boxing gym scene knew who Gennady Golovkin was, they used to call him “Superman” after watching him spar?

I’m looking forward to two: Viktor Postol/Terence Crawford and Deontay Wilder/Alexander Povetkin. I’m not sure Postol-Crawford will be all that entertaining but the winner will earn THE RING’s junior welterweight title. I’m expecting Wilder-Povetkin to be a good, competitive heavyweight fight.

GGG-&-lovey-Dougie_for-mailbagWe’re both GenXers, grew up on the same fighters, and I argue that there has never been a harder hitting middleweight not only in our lifetimes but perhaps at any time! I love me some GGG, but I’m pretty sure Jones Jr., Julian Jackson and Hearns hit harder. Golovkin is extremely strong, has very heavy hands and excellent punching technique but aside from gatekeeper Nobuhiro Ishida (and maybe Lajuan Simon), he hasn’t knocked anyone out cold. GGG grinds opponents down. He doesn’t have the one-hitter-quitter.

First, GGG knocks out Roy Jones at middleweight after Roy realizes his power pot shots have no effect on Golovkin while GGG traps Roy in the corner and knocks him out with a left hook followed by a right hand somewhere in the 8th round. You are assuming that Golovkin could simply walk through RJJ’s best shots. I know GGG has a solid chin, but I’m not sure that he could take a direct hit from Jones and neither would Golovkin. I think he would take a cautious approach with Jones, which would open the door for the ultra-talented American to outmaneuver him (RJ’s feet were just as fast as his hands).

MMH-and-GGG_for-mailbagGGG finishes what Tommy Hearns couldn’t and with brutal efficiency stops Hagler in five. Hagler wasn’t stopped in 67 pro bouts. If Kassim Ouma could go 10 with GGG, and Martin Murray could last 11, I think the Marvelous One would not only go the distance but give as good as he got. It would be a tremendous (and brutal) distance fight between two durable forward-marching technicians.

Monzon’s furious jab has no effect, and the Argentine’s height and reach advantage makes no difference, Monzon goes down for the count in round 10. Monzon wasn’t stopped in 100 pro bouts and the only time he was dropped was in his final fight. If GGG was able to get past his great jab, he would be shocked at the upper-body strength and inside roughhouse tactics of the fiercely proud Argentine. I think Monzon would have outpointed Golovkin.

GGG knocks out Joey Giardello, Dick Tiger, Gene Fullmer in six, Carmen Basilio in four, Tony Zale in seven, and TKO’s LaMotta in the 8th. I’m not going to get into all the mythical matchup details but let’s just agree to disagree.

There were only two middleweight greats that might be able to defeat him: Harry Greb and Stanley Ketchel. I think Greb could outwork him, but as fearless, powerful and hardnosed as Ketchel was, I think the Michigan Assassin was a little too raw, technically speaking, to get the better of GGG.

DAVID PRICE AND P.E.D. ADVANTAGES

Hello Dougie,

Recently David Price commented that due to him never being beaten by a fighter who has not tested positive for drugs, he should retain his top 5 IBF heavyweight ranking; and expressed frustration that many observers don’t believe he could have beaten Tony Thompson or Erkan Teper even if they weren’t drug cheats.

I have mixed feelings in that 1/ I think all of these fights should be ruled no contests and David should remain officially undefeated, but 2/ he looked scared of Erkan before a punch was thrown, and was out of his depth despite his opponent’s nutritional enhancements. His jab was awful, he looked timid and I don’t think the juice was the defining difference. What do you think David’s current standing in the boxing would be if he’d only fought against guys that were clean? Easy now. – Paul, Wakefield, England

I’m not sure Price would deserve to be rated in anyone’s top five (including the IBF) even if he had defeated Thompson and Teper. (There’s no way Teper, clean or dirty, should be the IBF’s No. 3-rated contender based on a KO of Price. And if it’s proven that he’s failed as many PED tests as some German publications claim, he should be dropped from the IBF’s rankings and suspended from competition for a significant period of time.)

I understand Price’s frustration with the public’s perception/opinion, and I think he’s got a right to believe himself. However, even if his losses to Teper and Thompson were changed to No Contests (and I’m not sure the first Thompson fight should be because the American only tested positive after his rematch with Price), the British heavyweight would still need to prove that he’s a contender by defeating a legit top 10 or 15 rated fighter. (For the record, I do think the Thompson rematch and the Teper fight should be changed to No Contests.)

I wish Price luck going forward. Boxing’s a mental sport. If he can convince himself that the only reason he lost those fights was because he was facing a “juiced” opponent, maybe that’s all he needs to regain his pre-Thompson momentum. John Ruiz was ready to quit boxing after a pudgy James Toney outpointed him for the WBA heavyweight title in 2005, but after Lights Out tested positive for steroids, the Quiet Man returned to boxing and fought well for a few years – despite dropping razor-thin decisions to Nikolay Valuev and Ruslan Chagaev (in Germany) – before David Haye finally stopped him.

GENERAL THOUGHTS

Dear Doug,
I have been a fan of your mailbag for some years and written to you two or three times. However, this is my first time to appreciate your weekly mailbags which provide massive information and insight on current or past boxing world. Even if I missed one or two, I would eventually go back and catch up with all of them. Please keep doing what you are doing, it is a vital source of energy!

Beside the appreciation (or arse kissing), I have a few comments/questions for you:
1. You included Canelo in the three boxers who are bigger than belts. I hope that you meant from a revenue/popularity perspective. I gave him all the credits for what he has achieved but his legacy is not there yet (As of this moment).

2.I am a little disappointed at Wade who did not seem to have strong desire to win. He seems discouraged after the first KD and barely wanted to continue after the second. The P4P king was still outstanding but seem to struggle. Is it because the weight issue or Arroyo was just too tough?

3. You are absolutely correct on why people eagerly want to see Canelo VS GGG when 98% of the same people do not give him a chance. I think Canelo helps GGG’s bank account more than his legacy. It will be much better if GGG can fight BJS or Daniel Jacob who are “legit” middleweight and move up in weight to face bigger challenges. Do you think unifying all belts helps his legacy more or moving up to super middleweight?

4. DLH said that they will let the super fight “marinates” and create a real mega event. If you think about it, it is the same thing happened to May/Pac around 6 years ago. Difference is that May/Pac did not use the word “marinate”. Also, it somehow reminds me of what SRL did to Haglar, waiting for the monster to weaken and strike. Whichever the case it is, I just hate it when promoters use the word “marinate”

5. This year is just getting better and better. Crawford vs Pistol / Thurman vs Porter / Fury vs Wlad #2…. what more can we ask?

6. Last but not least, after what happened to Nick Blackwell, I would like to thank all professional boxers who give us entertainment by putting their well-being on the line. Their efforts, winners or losers, deserve much more credits and recognition than what they are getting now.

Sorry for the long email and wish you all the best. – David C.

Thanks for the “arse kissing” and for sharing your thoughts, David. I’ll respond to your points in order:

  1. You included Canelo in the three boxers who are bigger than belts. I hope that you meant from a revenue/popularity perspective. I gave him all the credits for what he has achieved but his legacy is not there yet (as of this moment). Obviously Canelo has yet to achieve what the two future hall of famers (one a five-division titleholder, the other an eight-division champ) have accomplished in boxing. I was speaking from a revenue/popularity perspective for all three.

    2. I am a little disappointed at Wade who did not seem to have strong desire to win. He seems discouraged after the first KD and barely wanted to continue after the second. Give the young man a break. He was in over his head. Wade is not a bad boxer and he isn’t without potential. He simply should not have been ranked that high (No. 3) by the IBF.

The P4P king was still outstanding but seem to struggle. Is it because the weight issue or Arroyo was just too tough? Both. And Arroyo is more than tough, he’s a very good boxer.

3. You are absolutely correct on why people eagerly want to see Canelo VS GGG when 98% of the same people do not give him a chance.
It would be refreshing if they just admitted that they want to see the ginger Mexican get his ass handed to him instead of pretending to be purists and droning on about the sanctity of the sport. I think Canelo helps GGG’s bank account more than his legacy. I think he helps Golovkin in both areas, but obviously, a little more in the realms of money (and popularity). It will be much better if GGG can fight BJS or Daniel Jacob who are “legit” middleweight and move up in weight to face bigger challenges. Do you think unifying all belts helps his legacy more or moving up to super middleweight? I don’t think moving up to 168 pounds right now would enhance his already lofty status/ranking within the sport, other than a degree of “boxing nerd cred” from a small segment of the Twitterverse, because he would be just as much of a favorite to beat Badou Jack, James DeGale, Gilberto Ramirez and Felix Sturm as he will be against Canelo, Jacobs and Saunders. I think it helps his legacy to be the first undisputed middleweight champ since Bernard Hopkins (who was the first since Hagler), and to perhaps equal or eclipse B-Hop’s middleweight title defense record.

4. DLH said that they will let the super fight “marinates” and create a real mega event. If you think about it, it is the same thing happened to May/Pac around 6 years ago. Difference is that May/Pac did not use the word “marinate”. May-Pac didn’t marinate, it spoiled. Also, it somehow reminds me of what SRL did to Haglar, waiting for the monster to weaken and strike. Leonard was retired for almost three years, and he was a 3-to-1 underdog going into that fight. Whichever the case it is, I just hate it when promoters use the word “marinate.” OK, but I wouldn’t worry about it too much. De La Hoya doesn’t mind rattling the mental cages of hardcore heads for the hell of it, but he doesn’t want to wait so long that casual fans and Canelo’s faithful followers get turned off. He’s stated on record that he doesn’t want Canelo-GGG to “over-marinate.” If it doesn’t happen this year, it will next May.

5. This year is just getting better and better. Crawford vs Pistol / Thurman vs Porter / Fury vs Wlad #2…. what more can we ask? I’m looking forward to Wilder-Povetkin, Vargas-Salido and Santa Cruz-Frampton more than those fights, but they are all welcome (along with Lomachenko-Martinez).

6. Last but not least, after what happened to Nick Blackwell, I would like to thank all professional boxers who give us entertainment by putting their well-being on the line. Their efforts, winners or losers, deserve much more credits and recognition than what they are getting now. Here here (and I’ll assume that you feel the same way for Wade).

 

SANTA CRUZ VS. FRAMPTON & THE P4P

Hi Dougie,
Quick question,

Whomever wins between Frampton and Santa Cruz, I would expect to crack the Top 10 in the P4P rankings.

I’d see either at that stage, after the fight, having a better resume than Kell Brook. Do you agree? Thanks. – Leo

I agree. Brook and Eddie Hearn need to land a significant fight asap.

WEEKEND REVIEW & UPCOMING FIGHTS

How are you Dougie,

It has been a few weeks since I’ve written in. I was far too tired on Sunday to try and make the Monday bag (I stayed up to watch Gonzalez and GGG, live at 2am in the UK – talk about commitment!). It was worth it though. I enjoyed the Gonzalez fight but thought the scoring was bit off. Gonzalez won clearly but 120-108?? Come on! I noticed a lot of punches were connecting with arms and elbows. He looked good though, I’m hoping he starts moving up the weight classes though, maybe settling at bantam or super bantam. How do you see him going in the next few years and his prime?

I expected nothing less from GGG in the KO of Dominic Wade. Respect to Wade for stepping in with the him. I have to say that I am really impressed by GGG’s promoters especially the way they have position him within the different organisations. Handled differently and GGG could easily be the most avoided middleweight in history (including Mike McCallum in that! Sorry Dougie!) struggling to get decent opponents on decent bills.

I have some questions for you;

  1. If Khan beats Alvarez how do you see the fight between Khan and GGG going?
  2. Will GGG still fight Alvarez if he loses to Khan?
  3. How do you see Khan’s future if he loses to Alvarez?

Some people may disagree with me but I think GGG vs Khan will be just as big a money spinner as GGG vs Alvarez. Especially if it is a Vegas headliner, both fighters are big across both sides of the pond.

On a different note, looking forward to a great super middleweight double header this weekend. I’m predicting a Bute UD upset and DeGale UD which then leads to a rematch. Keep safe. – Jordan, Manchester, England

I’m also looking forward to Saturday’s super middleweight title bouts (as well as the rematch between my favorite boxing Space Cadet, Victor Ortiz, and one of my favorite

Photo by Stephanie Trapp

Photo by Stephanie Trapp

flawed warriors, Andre Berto). I can see Bute beating Jack, but the Vegas-based Swede has impressed me with his last two performances (his WBC title-winning majority decision over Anthony Dirrell and his split decision over George Groves). I think Jack is a good all-around boxer, who knows when to step up his activity and/or aggression. Bute is the most experienced opponent of his career, and one of the most athletic, so he’s got a fight on his hands but I’m going to predict The Money Team fighter keeps his belt via close decision. I’m pretty sure DeGale will take care of business against Rogelio Medina.

I’ll answer your questions in order:

  1. If Khan beats Alvarez how do you see the fight between Khan and GGG going? I’m not sure that fight happens because I think Khan would face Canelo in an immediate rematch (and even if he won the return bout I doubt that he would hold onto the WBC title or remain at middleweight).
  2. Will GGG still fight Alvarez if he loses to Khan? It depends on how Canelo loses to Khan and what he does after the setback. If Canelo loses in entertaining fashion and then wins a comeback bout or two in impressive fashion, I think his popularity would make him a viable opponent for GGG even without holding a middleweight title. However, if Canelo loses in embarrassing/inept fashion, his credibility and popularity could take a significant hit, and maybe Golovkin would look to other challenges at middleweight (Saunders, Jacobs, Eubank Jr.)
  3. How do you see Khan’s future if he loses to Alvarez? It depends on how he loses. If he puts up a good fight, boxes well in spots and stands his ground enough to earn the respect of even Canelo fans, I think Khan will be alright (even if he’s ultimately stopped). I think he’ll drop down to junior middleweight where he can be part of the PBC’s 154-pound mix (Lara, J-Rock, Trout, Charlo Twins) or he’ll return to welterweight where a big UK showdown with Brook still awaits. If he gets blown out, who knows? He might call it a career.

Some people may disagree with me but I think GGG vs Khan will be just as big a money spinner as GGG vs Alvarez. Especially if it is a Vegas headliner, both fighters are big across both sides of the pond. I don’t see it. Golovkin vs. Khan isn’t the same stylistic matchup that Canelo vs. Khan is. GGG is a bigger puncher than Canelo AND a master at cutting off the ring. Nobody would view that as even mildly competitive. With Canelo-Khan you have the stylistic conundrum for the naturally bigger fighter – Canelo’s reluctance to take the fight to his opponent and his difficulty with speed and lateral movement. Khan is still a big underdog against Canelo, but one can envision how he might pull the upset if he uses the right strategy and remains focused for 12 rounds.

I enjoyed the Gonzalez fight but thought the scoring was bit off. Gonzalez won clearly but 120-108?? Come on! I scored it 117-111 for Gonzalez from ringside, and I can see a 116-112 tally. Arroyo fared better than the official judges (and HBO’s Harold Lederman) gave him credit for.

I noticed a lot of punches were connecting with arms and elbows. True, but a lot of Arroyo’s punches were also blocked by Chocolatito’s gloves and forearms.

He looked good though, I’m hoping he starts moving up the weight classes though, maybe settling at bantam or super bantam. Jeez, slow down, man. What’s with hardcore boxing fans’ obsession with fighters moving up in weight? Gonzalez still has some formidable challenges at flyweight (112 pounds), mainly fellow titleholders Juan Estrada and Amnat Ruenroeng. The only reason he should immediately move up in weight is if he can no longer safely make 112 pounds (and that may well be the case). But when he moves up, he should go to junior bantamweight/super flyweight (115 pounds) – where showdowns with unbeaten beltholders Naoya Inoue and Carlos Cuadras await – not all the way to 118 or 122 pounds.

How do you see him going in the next few years and his prime? Chocolatito is only 28, but he’s been grinding on the world-class level for almost eight years – winning titles at strawweight, junior flyweight and flyweight, and making numerous defenses – so I think we may be witnessing the final year or two of his prime. He might be well past it by the time he’s 31. Of course, he might be unbeaten in more than 50 consecutive fights and a four-division champ by that time.

 

Email Fischer at [email protected]. Follow him on Twitter at @dougiefischer

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